Ukraine... 18 months on

[zac_a]

the maoster:

Carryfast:
No surprise that in all the years of being an enthusiastic air show attendee.Including and actually talking to numerous types of aircrew at shows at Farnborough, Mildenhall, Binbrook and Lakenheath I never heard anything which would contradict the fact that it takes two engines to create a jet air superiority fighter.But heard plenty to confirm it stated in low key terms.F16 v SU35 would be no different for the unfortunate F16 driver if they meet in battle.

Yeah I can picture the fighter jocks returning from their sorties and queuing up to debrief the sad anorak in front of them.

Naturally! This is precisely the person you want to be spending time with after you’ve been whizzing around the skies, looking forward to being told how you should have banked harder on your approach to landing and that you should have lowered your undercarriage 30 seconds sooner, all the while being eager to break the Official Secrets Act and tell some random loony all kinds of technical details.

Look, CF’s all set to go, he’s got pencil, notebook, manbag and everything

[carryfast]

Zac_A:

the maoster:

Carryfast:
No surprise that in all the years of being an enthusiastic air show attendee.Including and actually talking to numerous types of aircrew at shows at Farnborough, Mildenhall, Binbrook and Lakenheath I never heard anything which would contradict the fact that it takes two engines to create a jet air superiority fighter.But heard plenty to confirm it stated in low key terms.F16 v SU35 would be no different for the unfortunate F16 driver if they meet in battle.

Yeah I can picture the fighter jocks returning from their sorties and queuing up to debrief the sad anorak in front of them.

Naturally! This is precisely the person you want to be spending time with after you’ve been whizzing around the skies, looking forward to being told how you should have banked harder on your approach to landing and that you should have lowered your undercarriage 30 seconds sooner, all the while being eager to break the Official Secrets Act and tell some random loony all kinds of technical details.

Look, CF’s all set to go, he’s got pencil, notebook, manbag and everything

I’m sure it’s more the factory mindset in which provision of military kit is manufacturer driven and the poor ‘operator’ has no say in it and only gets what he’s given in that regard.
With numerous excuses for rubbish kit but which usually comes down to the profit margin for the supplier v people like Mitchell saying stuff the profit they need something that gets the job done.
That’s the difference between a Hawker Hunter v an EE Lightning or Boulton Paul Defiant v Spitfire
Good luck to anyone going up against an SU35 with an F16 they’ll need it.
Just like that Boulton Paul Defiant v a 109.
Which leaves the question exactly what is NATO trying to achieve in this idiotic conventional expansion strategy up to Russia’s front door and exactly what scenario would/does it envision as being a win for us and a lose for Russia in that regard.
Iraq and Sadam it ain’t and Ukraine isn’t a Kuwait.
It’s a historically established Russian province since Katherine the Great, playing a lethally dangerous game of secession of the worst kind, having no regard to a settlement based on compromise.Bearing in mind the stakes if Russia finally loses patience and the red mist takes over.

[whisperingsmith]

If the Ukrainians feel that the F16 is the plane that suits their needs, I’d take their opinion any day over that of ‘Wing Commander Carryfart’.

[zac_a]

We should invite Volodymyr Zelenskyy to join TN, we don’t want him being misled with inaccurate assessments by his actual Generals, when there is so much more to be gained from reading CF’s military guidance.

[adam277]

Yet I read every CF post.
Bullocks or not they are often highly amusing.

Lol… got a picture in my head of CF flying a F16 complaining his back hurts and he needs to take his 45 minute break now…

[carryfast]

Zac_A:
We should invite Volodymyr Zelenskyy to join TN, we don’t want him being misled with inaccurate assessments by his actual Generals, when there is so much more to be gained from reading CF’s military guidance.

Yeah picture the scene.I say forget the F16’s you need F15’s and Eurofighters instead.His generals are supposedly going to say no thanks ?.
But we’d prefer it if you reach a settlement with Russia along the lines of partition of Eastern Ukraine and a guarantee of no NATO involvement in Ukraine west or east.

[zac_a]

adam277:
Yet I read every CF post.
Bullocks or not they are often highly amusing.

Hell yes Do any of us read his posts for any other reason? Certain TN posters are like the proverbial car crash, you just can’t not look.

[carryfast]

Zac_A:

adam277:
Yet I read every CF post.
Bullocks or not they are often highly amusing.

Hell yes Do any of us read his posts for any other reason? Certain TN posters are like the proverbial car crash, you just can’t not look.

If NATO keeps up its mantra of let’s march on and ‘liberate’ Crimea it’s going to end up in something a lot worse than a car crash.More like the analogy of airliner crash lands on or a mid air collision over London.

[adam277]

twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/statu … 2253466712

People should check out this Viktor Orban interview… very interesting.

[carryfast]

adam277:
https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1696643892253466712

People should check out this Viktor Orban interview… very interesting.

Seems to confirm the idea that NATO’s strategy ( at face value ) is dangerous at best.
So suicidally and stupidly dangerous that logic says it can’t be true.Especially in view of the west’s/free world’s sell out to China.

[bone_shaker]

Homework for Carryfast for the dissertation and thesis for the four year degree course in A frame trailer core principles and methodologies.

How do I load an A frame trailer on to this ship?

[winseer]

Maybe this ongoing Western Non-Involvement on the ground - is nothing more than a feint to make it look like the West cares if Zelensky lives another few hours on the international after-dinner talking circuit?

Sooner or later, they’ll cut him loose - make no mistake.

The exact timing, will probably coincide with a major ukrainian defeat/russian victory, a technological breakthrough by any of the BRICs, which have now significantly added to their collective number, or maybe a total collapse of a western defence contractor, unable to screw any further money out of western taxpayers, due to the unelectability of any government intent on raising taxes/interest rates/unemployment DELIBERATELY to fund this “Worthy Cause” we’re all told of…

Classic Divide and Rule Left and Right:

If a Millionaire makes another Million, and I make another thousand - we’re both happy.
If I lose a thousand, and a millioniare loses a million - I won’t be celebrating.

If you’re a lefty - you’ll be unhappy at (a) and delighted at (b)

Then you wonder why you cannot win elections, even when rigging the ballots…

[bigtruck3]

What war is there anyone left in the country certainly not young fighting men after being let leave with a so called war on,
Smoke and mirrors, Smoke and mirrors it suits both countrys

[winseer]

WWI and WWI demonstrated that the “pacifist” left are quite happy to let the country’s right go off to get killed in a national war, where they won’t fight unless it’s a foreign war against a perceived right wing dictator, like the spanish civil war…

I reckon any war caused by the country’s Left should be fought in ONLY by that country’s Left.
Vice-versa applies as well, of course.
Thing is, when did we see our last war picked by Right-leaning government?

Falklands, 1982.
Thatcher would have lost the 1983 election if it were not for the lurch to the right that the war effort vs argentina’s aggression represented…

Don’t remember any Lefties being called up to participate, however, so that would indeed make the grade as “Right fighting their own cause”.
Was Iraq the Left fighting their own cause?
Don’t think so. The left can hide behind Blair’s Lies as being “Taken In” so they are not to blame for having re-electing him in 2005 despite Iraq already being in the past at that point.

It seems to me that this “war vs Russia” has been picked by the country’s left-wing liberals to chip back Putin’s long-standing power sphere.
I don’t remember any outrage when the ex-soviet nations were picked off by NATO and the EU “without even bothing to ask the population” in a general election, let alone a referendum.

All in all, I’m sick to death of the lack of a candidate in any and all elections - that opposes this nonsense, assuming they can avoid being jailed for opposing it out of free speech RIGHT to.

“Green Agenda” is a bad idea, but all current incumbents - support it.
“Ukraine” is just as bad - but no candidate is allowed to stand that does NOT support it.

Where’s the “Democracy” in THAT?

It seems to me that “Popularism” is the answer, and in time even the Left will come to realize that “keeping one’s livlihood” is more important than any other issue, both at home and abroad.

How many British Voters do you think even CARE about UK foreign policy, except and unless it is detrimental to the British Public, which of course is ALWAYS it seems…?

[bigtruck3]

Now if only they had stopped their young men fleeing there own country for the milk and honey in the eu, 500,000 already at the front ? Eiffy

I Ukraine’s military wants to mobilise up to 500,000 extra people, President Volodymyr Zelensky has revealed, as the war with Russia nears a two-year mark.

At a news conference in Kyiv, he said his commanders were seeking “450,000-500,000 individuals”, admitting this was a “sensitive” and costly issue.

He said he needed more details before backing the move, hinting that 500,000 soldiers were already on the front.

His comments come in the wake of aid setbacks from the US and the EU.

[carryfast]

Bigtruck3:
Now if only they had stopped their young men fleeing there own country for the milk and honey in the eu, 500,000 already at the front ? Eiffy

I Ukraine’s military wants to mobilise up to 500,000 extra people, President Volodymyr Zelensky has revealed, as the war with Russia nears a two-year mark.

At a news conference in Kyiv, he said his commanders were seeking “450,000-500,000 individuals”, admitting this was a “sensitive” and costly issue.

He said he needed more details before backing the move, hinting that 500,000 soldiers were already on the front.

His comments come in the wake of aid setbacks from the US and the EU.

At best it’s a futile war that could have been settled amicably before it began.and which can only escalate badly for us if Ukraine and NATO and the EU succeed in removing Ukraine from it’s historic Russian influence let alone taking over Eastern Ukraine from it’s Russian dominated demographic.
Aid setbacks read we don’t want to get nuked if/when Russia loses patience

[franglais]

Carryfast:

Bigtruck3:
Now if only they had stopped their young men fleeing there own country for the milk and honey in the eu, 500,000 already at the front ? Eiffy

I Ukraine’s military wants to mobilise up to 500,000 extra people, President Volodymyr Zelensky has revealed, as the war with Russia nears a two-year mark.

At a news conference in Kyiv, he said his commanders were seeking “450,000-500,000 individuals”, admitting this was a “sensitive” and costly issue.

He said he needed more details before backing the move, hinting that 500,000 soldiers were already on the front.

His comments come in the wake of aid setbacks from the US and the EU.

At best it’s a futile war that could have been settled amicably before it began.and which can only escalate badly for us if Ukraine and NATO and the EU succeed in removing Ukraine from it’s historic Russian influence let alone taking over Eastern Ukraine from it’s Russian dominated demographic.
Aid setbacks read we don’t want to get nuked if/when Russia loses patience

Historically Kyiv was the first capital of Russia.
I guess it is a bit remiss of President Zelensky not to accept the homage of Putain, but there ya go.

[bigtruck3]

Carryfast:

Bigtruck3:
Now if only they had stopped their young men fleeing there own country for the milk and honey in the eu, 500,000 already at the front ? Eiffy

I Ukraine’s military wants to mobilise up to 500,000 extra people, President Volodymyr Zelensky has revealed, as the war with Russia nears a two-year mark.

At a news conference in Kyiv, he said his commanders were seeking “450,000-500,000 individuals”, admitting this was a “sensitive” and costly issue.

He said he needed more details before backing the move, hinting that 500,000 soldiers were already on the front.

His comments come in the wake of aid setbacks from the US and the EU.

At best it’s a futile war that could have been settled amicably before it began.and which can only escalate badly for us if Ukraine and NATO and the EU succeed in removing Ukraine from it’s historic Russian influence let alone taking over Eastern Ukraine from it’s Russian dominated demographic.
Aid setbacks read we don’t want to get nuked if/when Russia loses patience

Never happen nukes, the Russians are playing with Ukraine and the rest of the world
As long as the pretending of a real war exists nobody can do nothing not even the Americans so it keeps Ukraine out of eu for years
Do you not think that Russia could wipe Ukraine off the face of the earth IF They Wanted to.
It’s war games that’s all
Now if by some miracle Ukraine was admitted to the eu fast track then that changes everything
Then you probably would see a real war depending on what Russia want

[winseer]

This “War” wouldn’t have come about, had it not been for NATO expansion - against the Gorbachev agreement over three decades ago…

This is what happens to BOTH sides when you think you can do something with impunity - and get checked up by sad and stupid resistance.

“Resisting” causes more deaths than the battles in wars.

“Resisting” surrender from August 6th to August 9th in Japan for example - resulted in Nagasaki getting a taste of the world’s first dirty bomb don’t forget…

“Resisting” rather than Zelensky joining Putin’s forces in eradicating the ■■■■ Azovs, thus ending the Ukrainian civil war in the Centerists favour no less - could not be countenenced - WHY?

Putin’s “Special Operation” is no different to what the USA attempted in Vietnam.
The difference though - was Vietnam was never “American” at any point in the past…

[carryfast]

Bigtruck3:

Carryfast:

Bigtruck3:
Now if only they had stopped their young men fleeing there own country for the milk and honey in the eu, 500,000 already at the front ? Eiffy

I Ukraine’s military wants to mobilise up to 500,000 extra people, President Volodymyr Zelensky has revealed, as the war with Russia nears a two-year mark.

At a news conference in Kyiv, he said his commanders were seeking “450,000-500,000 individuals”, admitting this was a “sensitive” and costly issue.

He said he needed more details before backing the move, hinting that 500,000 soldiers were already on the front.

His comments come in the wake of aid setbacks from the US and the EU.

At best it’s a futile war that could have been settled amicably before it began.and which can only escalate badly for us if Ukraine and NATO and the EU succeed in removing Ukraine from it’s historic Russian influence let alone taking over Eastern Ukraine from it’s Russian dominated demographic.
Aid setbacks read we don’t want to get nuked if/when Russia loses patience

Never happen nukes, the Russians are playing with Ukraine and the rest of the world
As long as the pretending of a real war exists nobody can do nothing not even the Americans so it keeps Ukraine out of eu for years
Do you not think that Russia could wipe Ukraine off the face of the earth IF They Wanted to.
It’s war games that’s all
Now if by some miracle Ukraine was admitted to the eu fast track then that changes everything
Then you probably would see a real war depending on what Russia want

Russia won’t nuke Ukraine it’s too close to/is home which would defeat the object.
UK on the other hand what’s America gonna do negotiate at that point or die.For us the idea that Putin won’t go nuclear if he needs would be a catastrophic mistake.This needs to be brought to a close sooner rather than later.