Ukraine... 18 months on

[winseer]

adam277:
the news coverage on the war is a joke…
We only ever seem to hear how good Ukraine are doing… Only positive news. Unless it is some Russian bombing atrocity.
So its either UKRAINE GAINS GROUND or RUSSIA BOMBS SCHOOL /

There is no impartial news… which is disappointing. Heck you cant even visit the Russia State Media to see what there take is so you can try to piece together a narrative that makes sense. As our government… that believes in freedom of the press has banned RT.
rt.com/

Completely shameful to ban a Russian news source. Yea, it is propaganda but so is the BBC…
We have not even banned North Korea’s state news yet we have banned Russia’s lol.
kcna.kp/en

^^^^^^ You got it.

RT News | Livestream 24/7

…if your ISP is blocking you from accessing such websites directly…

The way I see it, Russia are trying not to take out civilians on either side, whereas Azovs don’t care WHO they kill, including their own citizens, ethnic Russian - or not.
It’s a dirty war indeed, with easily over 90% of “Atrocities and war crimes” being committed by both the Azovs on the ground, and the Western Establishment - knowing full well what they are up to, but encouraging it as a “price worth paying to rid the world of Autocratic, popularist leaders”.

Bolsonaro, Khan, Trump - have already fallen to Establishment Vote RIgging and other judicial and political corruption. Erdogan survived for now, and now it’s likely to be Jinping, Putin, and the remaining BRICS leaders to come.

I reckon the population are fast waking up to this shower that give you only a choice of “among ourselves” on western ballot papers.
I predict that next year’s UK election - won’t be won by anyone.
It’ll likely be Labour with the most seats, but falling short of a full majority because Reform Party finally get their foot in the door, winning enough seats (1+) to truly upset the applecart in Westminster.

Which of ANY of the parties @ Westminster are talking about Russia rather than Ukraine?

#Evil Red, #Evil Blue, #Evil Yellow, #Evil Green - is supposed to make people “not bother voting at all”, but with what is at stake for 2030 now - I reckon we’ll see a lot of changes over the following 18 months, and something truly cataclysmic for July 2024 on the way…

[zac_a]

Carryfast:

Zac_A:
Some of you won’t be happy to see this, but I am.

It is no longer “reportedly”, R4 news announced it as a definite around 4pm

theguardian.com/world/2023/ … etherlands

Unlike twin engine F15 and Eurofighter and Raphael etc F16’s aren’t and never were designed to be air superiority fighters.

“The General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon is an American single-engine supersonic multirole fighter aircraft originally developed by General Dynamics for the United States Air Force (USAF). Designed as an air superiority day fighter…”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_D … ing_Falcon

No matter what the subject matter is, from fighter aircraft to astrophysics, your personal contradictions of available evidence are always highly entertaining. I can’t say the same for your “analyses” though

Russia is just playing cat and mouse with Ukraine and NATO so far. It hasn’t even got close to committing its full capabilities in artillery and air power for good reason.It’s holding them back for a/the potential fight with NATO.
Having said that it wouldn’t take long for a squadron or two of SU35’s to totally slaughter even a superior number of F16’s and Ukraine knows it.Assuming the whole thing isn’t just a staged pretext to cover the phased piecemeal surrender of the free world’s arsenal to a CCP/Russian/WEF run stitch up.
We’ve already seen the decimation of our defences both conventional tactical and strategic nuclear v the combined arsenal of China and Russia.

[whisperingsmith]

Your mates in Russia are cracking down on you & your bedfellows:

Russians conducted at least nine searches among representatives of the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious organisation in temporarily occupied Crimea, and two house arrests were reported.

Russians conduct searches among Jehovah’s Witnesses in Crimea

[harry_monk]

whisperingsmith:
Your mates in Russia are cracking down on you & your bedfellows:

Russians conducted at least nine searches among representatives of the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious organisation in temporarily occupied Crimea, and two house arrests were reported.

Russians conduct searches among Jehovah's Witnesses in Crimea | Ukrainska Pravda

Good. Anything that stops those scumbags banging on my door at nine o’ clock in the morning while I’m trying to sleep off my hangover gets my vote.

[carryfast]

Zac_A:

Carryfast:

Zac_A:
Some of you won’t be happy to see this, but I am.

It is no longer “reportedly”, R4 news announced it as a definite around 4pm

theguardian.com/world/2023/ … etherlands

Unlike twin engine F15 and Eurofighter and Raphael etc F16’s aren’t and never were designed to be air superiority fighters.

“The General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon is an American single-engine supersonic multirole fighter aircraft originally developed by General Dynamics for the United States Air Force (USAF). Designed as an air superiority day fighter…”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_D … ing_Falcon

No matter what the subject matter is, from fighter aircraft to astrophysics, your personal contradictions of available evidence are always highly entertaining. I can’t say the same for your “analyses” though

Russia is just playing cat and mouse with Ukraine and NATO so far. It hasn’t even got close to committing its full capabilities in artillery and air power for good reason.It’s holding them back for a/the potential fight with NATO.
Having said that it wouldn’t take long for a squadron or two of SU35’s to totally slaughter even a superior number of F16’s and Ukraine knows it.Assuming the whole thing isn’t just a staged pretext to cover the phased piecemeal surrender of the free world’s arsenal to a CCP/Russian/WEF run stitch up.
We’ve already seen the decimation of our defences both conventional tactical and strategic nuclear v the combined arsenal of China and Russia.

It’s clear that the single engine F16 was never going to cut it in its original supposed role of air superiority.The F35 will be no better.

It is inferior in every accepted criterea, speed, rate of climb and service ceiling to the SU35.
As opposed to F15 which would have around the same advantage over the SU35 as the SU35 has over the F16.

diffen.com/difference/F-15_v … ing_Falcon

[zac_a]

Harry Monk:

whisperingsmith:
Your mates in Russia are cracking down on you & your bedfellows:

Russians conducted at least nine searches among representatives of the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious organisation in temporarily occupied Crimea, and two house arrests were reported.

Russians conduct searches among Jehovah's Witnesses in Crimea | Ukrainska Pravda

Good. Anything that stops those scumbags banging on my door at nine o’ clock in the morning while I’m trying to sleep off my hangover gets my vote.

Couldn’t agree more! Wouldn’t bother me if they put all these misogynistic Christian fundamentalists into a Gulag. JWs are not just annoying, they’re also arrogant, sick, twisted ■■■■-holes. The last time these deviants knocked on my door I told them straight, you need to put my on your list of doors not to knock at otherwise next time I will not be so polite.

[winseer]

You’d think that Western news sources would investigate what happens to:-

(1) The hundreds of high ranking officer families that we’re told have “Lost their loved one” on the meatgrinder Ukrainian battlefield.
(2) I’ve never seen a “Mobile Crematorium”. Engineers tell me there’s “no such animal”. Pictures please!
(3) Zelensky when he’s actually in his own country for more than five minutes, near an actual identifiable Ukrainian landmark…
(4) Western Politicians who (we’re told) brave the cross-fire of the battlefield to spend a few short minutes patting Zelensky on the back for… What exactly?
(5) Western Citizens that have nothing to do with “Russia” or “Ukraine” but have since come to serious harm because of the ramp-up in inflation caused not by “Russia invading Ukraine”, but rather “Western sanctions against the West” rather than harming Russia’s economy…
(6) Both sides seem to be parading weapons confiscated from the other side they are fighting… The difference is, that the stuff Russia seem to be capturing is state-of-the-art western stuff, compared to knackered old soviet surplus stuff that Ukraine seem to be collecting for sale on Ebay…

I'm SHOCKED at the new MOSCOW | Moscow Vlog 2023

I would imagine these “Draft Dodgers” we hear about - are the same ones who wouldn’t fight for even their own possible future Left-wing government, should putin ever pop his clogs in our lifetimes…

Better than Ukraine though, where people who refuse to pick up a gun and fight for their country, are likely to be re-cast as “Murederd by Russian Marauder” cadavers, i.e. taken outside their own front doors, and murdered, left on the street to rot… If there’s not enough people to be found, then just dig up the local cemetary and scatter human remains around to suit the look you want for your street to appear on western news, suitably pixellated so people can’t actually tell that the “Bodies” have been there some time, maybe a few months or more…

[zac_a]

Carryfast:
[
It’s clear that the single engine F16 was never going to cut it in its original supposed role of air superiority.The F35 will be no better.

It is inferior in every accepted criterea, speed, rate of climb and service ceiling to the SU35.
As opposed to F15 which would have around the same advantage over the SU35 as the SU35 has over the F16.

diffen.com/difference/F-15_v … ing_Falcon

Wow! Truly there are no limits to your armchair expertise.
I imagine by now you have solved the problems inherent in the Holy Grail of particle physics, the Grand Unified Theory, and are inline for a Nobel Prize?

[carryfast]

Zac_A:

Carryfast:
[
It’s clear that the single engine F16 was never going to cut it in its original supposed role of air superiority.The F35 will be no better.

It is inferior in every accepted criterea, speed, rate of climb and service ceiling to the SU35.
As opposed to F15 which would have around the same advantage over the SU35 as the SU35 has over the F16.

diffen.com/difference/F-15_v … ing_Falcon

Wow! Truly there are no limits to your armchair expertise.
I imagine by now you have solved the problems inherent in the Holy Grail of particle physics, the Grand Unified Theory, and are inline for a Nobel Prize?

It doesn’t take a degree in particle physics or a pilots licence to know that the Polish Air Force didn’t stand a chance with bi planes v BF109’s in 1939.Just like F16, or any other cheap low rent single engined heap, v SU35, is a suicide mission for the F16 pilots.That’s why F15, F22, Eurofighter and Raphael, like the Phantom and the EE Lightning before them, were invented.

[the_nodding_donkey]

Carryfast:

Zac_A:

Carryfast:
[
It’s clear that the single engine F16 was never going to cut it in its original supposed role of air superiority.The F35 will be no better.

It is inferior in every accepted criterea, speed, rate of climb and service ceiling to the SU35.
As opposed to F15 which would have around the same advantage over the SU35 as the SU35 has over the F16.

diffen.com/difference/F-15_v … ing_Falcon

Wow! Truly there are no limits to your armchair expertise.
I imagine by now you have solved the problems inherent in the Holy Grail of particle physics, the Grand Unified Theory, and are inline for a Nobel Prize?

It doesn’t take a degree in particle physics or a pilots licence to know that the Polish Air Force didn’t stand a chance with bi planes v BF109’s in 1939.Just like F16, or any other cheap low rent single engined heap, v SU35, is a suicide mission for the F16 pilots.That’s why F15, F22, Eurofighter and Raphael, like the Phantom and the EE Lightning before them, were invented.

The
The F16 is a tiny little [zb], designed, and upgraded, to do several things really well… one of those things, is punching above its weight. Like any good small, fighter does. It’s fast, agile, and well armed. Underestimating your opponent, is the biggest (and last) mistake you’ll ever make.
F16’s used to hose all over their opposing foes, simply because the F16 has flight characteristics that their "superior " opponents dont expect.
Oh, as for your dismissing the fact that the F16 is a “cheap, low rent” single engine plane. That’s because it doesn,t need a second engine as a spare, to get it back to the mothership. Two engines are heavier, more ■■■■■■■■■■■ use twice as much fuel, need twice as many spares and maintenance, and have two heat sources for AIM to lock on to.

Is the F16 beter than the latest generation fighter planes? We won’t know, until they go head to head. Is it a crap plane? No.

[whisperingsmith]

Which one did you build first CF ■■

The Su35

Or the F16

[carryfast]

the nodding donkey:

Carryfast:

Zac_A:

Carryfast:
[
It’s clear that the single engine F16 was never going to cut it in its original supposed role of air superiority.The F35 will be no better.

It is inferior in every accepted criterea, speed, rate of climb and service ceiling to the SU35.
As opposed to F15 which would have around the same advantage over the SU35 as the SU35 has over the F16.

diffen.com/difference/F-15_v … ing_Falcon

Wow! Truly there are no limits to your armchair expertise.
I imagine by now you have solved the problems inherent in the Holy Grail of particle physics, the Grand Unified Theory, and are inline for a Nobel Prize?

It doesn’t take a degree in particle physics or a pilots licence to know that the Polish Air Force didn’t stand a chance with bi planes v BF109’s in 1939.Just like F16, or any other cheap low rent single engined heap, v SU35, is a suicide mission for the F16 pilots.That’s why F15, F22, Eurofighter and Raphael, like the Phantom and the EE Lightning before them, were invented.

The
The F16 is a tiny little [zb], designed, and upgraded, to do several things really well… one of those things, is punching above its weight. Like any good small, fighter does. It’s fast, agile, and well armed. Underestimating your opponent, is the biggest (and last) mistake you’ll ever make.
F16’s used to hose all over their opposing foes, simply because the F16 has flight characteristics that their "superior " opponents dont expect.
Oh, as for your dismissing the fact that the F16 is a “cheap, low rent” single engine plane. That’s because it doesn,t need a second engine as a spare, to get it back to the mothership. Two engines are heavier, more ■■■■■■■■■■■ use twice as much fuel, need twice as many spares and maintenance, and have two heat sources for AIM to lock on to.

Is the F16 beter than the latest generation fighter planes? We won’t know, until they go head to head. Is it a crap plane? No.

Did you actually read the comparison of F15 v F16 posted ?.
How strange that with all your supposed downsides of having two engines the F15 has proved itself in battle with no losses.
Also unlike the F16, the F15 is actually deservedly designated an air superiority fighter.
Superior in the fighter pilot wish list of climb rate and service ceiling to SU35, unlike the F16.
In WW2 terms the F16 is like a Thunderbolt v FW190 D9 or Tempest or Mk9 or Griffon Spit.A proper fighter it ain’t.

[zac_a]

Carryfast:
Did you actually read the comparison of F15 v F16 posted ?.
How strange that with all your supposed downsides of having two engines the F15 has proved itself in battle with no losses.

So in answer to Whispering Smith’s question, it was obviouly the Su-35, 1:48 scale so larger pieces, easier to handle. What about the painting? Good old fashioned Humbrol enamels or the more modern acrylics?

[the_nodding_donkey]

. Did you actually read the comparison of F15 v F16 posted ?.
How strange that with all your supposed downsides of having two engines the F15 has proved itself in battle with no losses.
Also unlike the F16, the F15 is actually deservedly designated an air superiority fighter.
Superior in the fighter pilot wish list of climb rate and service ceiling to SU35, unlike the F16.
In WW2 terms the F16 is like a Thunderbolt v FW190 D9 or Tempest or Mk9 or Griffon Spit.A proper fighter it ain’t.
Carryfast
SENIOR MEMBER

Posts: 34313
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:45 pm

I didn’t say that the F16 was better than the F15 They are different planes, designed for different jobs. Of course, in your fantasy world, we would equip Ukraine with a thousand Typhoons or F15s The problem with that, is logistics. There aren’t that many (spare) planes, they need twice as many spares and fuel, and they are considerably more expensive than the F16.

The other issue is tactics. The F16 can fight in the air, but also attack ground targets, and engage low flying drones. They don’t need the speed or range of the bigger planes, because they will by necessity be parked close to the action. They don’t have airfields far from the frontline to keep them out of reach of enemy attacks. They will no doubt be using main roads as makeshift runways.

As for your WWII apple and pear comparisons, the German Panther and Tiger tanks ,(despite a number of, mainly reliability, problems) were far superior to the Sherman, T-34 or any of the British tanks (apart mayby the Churchill, but that was woofully undergunned and far to slow.). We still beat them though…

[carryfast]

Zac_A:

Carryfast:
Did you actually read the comparison of F15 v F16 posted ?.
How strange that with all your supposed downsides of having two engines the F15 has proved itself in battle with no losses.

So in answer to Whispering Smith’s question, it was obviouly the Su-35, 1:48 scale so larger pieces, easier to handle. What about the painting? Good old fashioned Humbrol enamels or the more modern acrylics?

I wouldn’t have wasted the money on the F16.
For the same reason that the 1/24th scale Spitfire was my favourite aircraft model kit in the day.There are only fighters and targets.
The SU 35 deserves as much respect as the FW190 and EE Lightning and the F15 in that regard.
So far Ukraine seems to be a dumping ground for the worst NATO kit like Leopard 1 tanks and now dodgy single engined wannabe fighter aircraft.
Obviously we can’t even afford the best kit for ourselves let alone shipping out what we’ve got wholesale to get involved in an interslavic squabble, which the NATO allied see as a good strategy for some reason.

[the_maoster]

I wonder if the assessment of aircraft capabilities comes from actually talking to aircrew or rather from watching something on Discovery channel that was created by a disgruntled ex employee whilst sitting on the chintz sofa praying for the phone to ring with a job?

[carryfast]

the maoster:
I wonder if the assessment of aircraft capabilities comes from actually talking to aircrew or rather from watching something on Discovery channel that was created by a disgruntled ex employee whilst sitting on the chintz sofa praying for the phone to ring with a job?

No surprise that in all the years of being an enthusiastic air show attendee.Including and actually talking to numerous types of aircrew at shows at Farnborough, Mildenhall, Binbrook and Lakenheath I never heard anything which would contradict the fact that it takes two engines to create a jet air superiority fighter.But heard plenty to confirm it stated in low key terms.F16 v SU35 would be no different for the unfortunate F16 driver if they meet in battle.

[zac_a]

Given the detail and phenomenal breadth of CF’s unparalleled expertise and knowledge, I can only assume that he has his own Brain Impulse Galvanoscope Record And Transfer (BIGRAT) device in the basement of the care home, where skills and capabilities of genuine people can be electronically imprinted onto his own cerebral cortex, in order that he can enlighten us with easily digestible summaries, as befits our more limited abilities.

[carryfast]

Zac_A:
Given the detail and phenomenal breadth of CF’s unparalleled expertise and knowledge, I can only assume that he has his own Brain Impulse Galvanoscope Record And Transfer (BIGRAT) device in the basement of the care home, where skills and capabilities of genuine people can be electronically imprinted onto his own cerebral cortex,

I’m no pilot or military strategist but even I can see that an F16 driver won’t even know which direction this thing came from or that it was even there before it blows him out of the sky.

youtu.be/orMfEEKvgD4?si=Dff2tEofi_je8nd2

Also I’ve yet to see any or all of the western leaders explain any scenario in which Russia can/will/would possibly lose and we win this argument v Ukraine let alone a fight v NATO.

[the_maoster]

Carryfast:

the maoster:
I wonder if the assessment of aircraft capabilities comes from actually talking to aircrew or rather from watching something on Discovery channel that was created by a disgruntled ex employee whilst sitting on the chintz sofa praying for the phone to ring with a job?

No surprise that in all the years of being an enthusiastic air show attendee.Including and actually talking to numerous types of aircrew at shows at Farnborough, Mildenhall, Binbrook and Lakenheath I never heard anything which would contradict the fact that it takes two engines to create a jet air superiority fighter.But heard plenty to confirm it stated in low key terms.F16 v SU35 would be no different for the unfortunate F16 driver if they meet in battle.

Yeah I can picture the fighter jocks returning from their sorties and queuing up to debrief the sad anorak in front of them.