I think its been about 18 months now… give or take.
In that time Russia has taken pretty much all of Luhansk and most of Donetsk… If Putin is to believed that is how far he said he wanted to go. Regardless though. it seems unlikely that Russia will take anymore territory in the short term. But the same is true of Ukraine… The Russians have done a good job of mining the front line which has nullified a lot of the modern equipment giving to Ukraine by the west.
My question to you is… should we start pushing for peace?
I got mocked when I was against the war. I am still against the war. I believe it is solely just a proxy war that has been rumbling on for over a decade now.
But what I think is.
Ukraine can not win this war. No matter how many shiny rockets we send them.
Russia military outnumber Ukraine’s something like 5/1…
*The Donetsk and Luhansk regions have been in constant conflict for almost a decade now en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Do … %80%932022
So Ukraine has not had much control over these regions.
Yet Zelenskyy keeps talking about reclaiming these regions as well as Crimea a region that is heavily pro Russian.
Maybe Russia will eventually give up? Seems unlikely though.
But I am not pro-war even if Russia is the aggressor especially when victory seems so improbable. I am also not a fan of funding wars. If a war is ‘just’ you do not send money for other people to fight a war for you. You fight the war yourself.
The majority of Ukrainians in the regions which Russia has taken identify as Russian anyway. They speak Russian rather than Ukrainian as a first language for example, follow Russian customs and traditions, and see themselves as defending their homeland from the oppressor.
adam277:
But I am not pro-war even if Russia is the aggressor especially when victory seems so improbable. I am also not a fan of funding wars. If a war is ‘just’ you do not send money for other people to fight a war for you. You fight the war yourself.
We’re picking a pointless fight with Russia which is all about the expansion of NATO onto Russia’s front lawn.
While at the same time appeasing and bankrolling its ally China.
It doesn’t add up.
We were never going to fight a war with Russia because there was/is no winning strategy or scenario for us and no scenario in which Russia would allow itself to lose a war with us.
Mutually Assured Destruction was always the only logical end of such a war after the invention of nukes.
Why would we want to risk that over an internal Russian Ukrainian matter in which Russia on balance just seeks a similar justified settlement along the similar lines as the Irish issue.
Oh wait see the first sentence ^.
Harry Monk:
The majority of Ukrainians in the regions which Russia has taken identify as Russian anyway. They speak Russian rather than Ukrainian as a first language for example, follow Russian customs and traditions, and see themselves as defending their homeland from the oppressor.
pretty much.
Crimea has benefited greatly since it got annexed financially. But it has always been very pro Russian due to all the tourist money that gets poured into it.
But yea, I just want this war to end. If it means Russia having control of the Donbas then so be it. That has basically been the case since 2014 anyway.
Ukraine’s “Home ground advantage” is that they don’t worry about shelling dissident ethnic Russians in their own country’s residential areas, whereas the Warlords have their proberbial hands tied behind their backs - not being able to shell say, Kiev positions, or residential areas across the west side of the river - as Ukrainians are quite happy to use their own citizens as “Human Shields” - or at least these AZOV militia types are.
Putin’s big mistake was seriously underestimating the sheer number of these AZOVs about the country…
If he estimated say, 20-30k of such “disorganized rabble”, when it is in fact 250k-400k of HIGHLY organized partisans - then it is hardly any wonder that such a stalemate has now been reached.
Putin’s forces, superior in number they might be - have been held to a full stalemate to date, with no net real ground gained by either side, just the same bits being taken and taken back, like Kherson in particular.
I reckon the AZOVs will do anything to provoke a nuclear war here, as they no doubt feel more inclined to take the “rest of the world with them” if they feel they are being cut off loose by the West at this point.
NATO don’t help neither - telling Zelensky that in order to get more aid, he must not give any inch to Putin under any circumstances…
It was likely such an enpasse that triggered the initial invasion in the first place, of course…
When Trump says “He’d end it in 24 hours” - I reckon the easy way to do that is simply get a UN peacekeeping force in there, having reached agreement with Putin that the real targets for rounding up are the AZOV actual nationalist socialists… I reckon more Ukrainian ethnic Russians have died at AZOV hands than any incoming fire by Putin’s forces.
Imagine in this country we had a Scouser force 250,000 strong invade Chester, easily take it, and then get aid from America in taking Crewe next, rather than London getting aid sending the British Army Regulars up there to “nip it in the bud” as it were…
JeffA:
The environmental damage is going to be the biggest result of the war - destroying vast areas that were growing food to feed large areas of the world.
I don’t think “Farming Drop of productivity” counts as “Environmental damage” somehow.
If you starve - it will be because someone else got the remaining food first regardless of who it originally belonged to.
Africa - is also in the process of casting off the colonial yoke now, meaning that once no longer starving, and having become self-sufficient for food - the sky’s the limit for them.
Good Luck to 'em!
Notice too, that the Western backed dictators of Africa - are all being pushed by the Western Powers to invade their neighbors “becuase they’ve overturned the democratically elected government there” with a military coup…
Actually, Democracy is broken already. You don’t get who you voted for, it’s all systemically rigged now, everywhere among western nations.
Voting is only permitted for approved candidates from 2020 onwards.
See how far Reform Party get at the next election in THIS country, despite record numbers of voters despising the Tories, Labour AND the Libdems right now!
JeffA:
The environmental damage is going to be the biggest result of the war - destroying vast areas that were growing food to feed large areas of the world.
Yea… I kinda agree.
It is also going to take a very long time to de-mine Ukraine… both sides have heavily mined the battlefield. Which is why progress on both sides is so slow.
I would like to see some talk of a resolution or peace talks coming from the west… but it seems unlikely…
I just wanna add. I am all for Ukraine defending itself. But I am against war in general. I am also against the west using Ukraine as a pawn to test out its arsenal and to fund a proxy war. There is now talk that the same might happen in Niger…
We need to learn to step back and stop acting like the world police.
Like it or not Ukraine is not a part of NATO. Neither is Taiwan or any other country potentially at threat.
Apparantly he’s even mined that nuclear plant. I can’t believe Putin could be so reckless and stupid - for the last 20 years I thought he was smart - but he’s just totally blown everything.
JeffA:
Apparantly he’s even mined that nuclear plant. I can’t believe Putin could be so reckless and stupid - for the last 20 years I thought he was smart - but he’s just totally blown everything.
Don’t forget that we’ve only had the word of the propaganderists in the West that Putin is anything at all of what he’s said to be.
“Maniac”, “Dictator”, “Mad” etc. - means little if the only things you see and hear of the guy - happen to be censored news reports funneled through media under standing instructions to be against anything “Right” or “Autocratic”.
Their ongoing actions against Trump and his MAGA people - prove this beyond a doubt already.
I wonder how many people in the West even disbelieve that Putin is trying to kill actual nazis here, despite the fact there is no doubt that these actual nazis - really do exist, and are not some figment of Russia’s paranoia…
If the nuclear reactor that Russia currently occupy - blows up… I suggest that it wasn’t those there who’d die in the process doing it… I don’t think this WAGNER group (Why is it called Wagner when the Russian “W” is SH in Western Languages btw?) are into suicide missions with both arms tied behind their backs… likely the reasons behind this so-called recent “Mutiny” as well…
How would the Western Allies have liked it if Germany put the burning of say, Dresden on prime time TV, and then retaliated by destroying an allied military base?
“Hearts and Minds” starts for most people on their Iphone news feeds these days, rather than the “News at Ten”.
The Internet - has become the center pieces of the Chessboard.
If you don’t play Chess - this is meaningless to you.
To Game Theorists though? - Chess, Poker, Go, and various other stragey games - are required reading!
Winseer:
If you don’t play Chess - this is meaningless to you.
To Game Theorists though? - Chess, Poker, Go, and various other stragey games - are required reading!
Comparing it with a chess game is an oxymoron.There is no conceivable winning move or end game for either player and especially NATO.
While the antics of the Western governments selling us out to China, including Ukrainian food and raw materials ‘exports’ point to a false flag agenda within an agenda.
It’s obviously providing a pretext for the ‘surrender’ of large quantities of western arms supplies.
^^^
Since when have Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea been in the West, all of which support Ukraine?
So Putin is a poor misunderstood cuddly little darling with whom we should all sympathise? The murders in our country of Alexander Litvinenko, and Dawn Sturgess (both UK Citizens) and the poisoning of Sergei & Julia Scripol never happened. And not only did Putin have nothing to do with either, the destruction of Grozny, Allepo and Mariupol and the forceable removal of the latter’s citizens to Russia are all Western propaganda too?
cav551:
^^^
Since when have Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea been in the West, all of which support Ukraine?
So Putin is a poor misunderstood cuddly little darling with whom we should all sympathise? The murders in our country of Alexander Litvinenko, and Dawn Sturgess (both UK Citizens) and the poisoning of Sergei & Julia Scripol never happened. And not only did Putin have nothing to do with either, the destruction of Grozny, Allepo and Mariupol and the forceable removal of the latter’s citizens to Russia are all Western propaganda too?
Like him or loathe him we have to ‘sympathise’ with Putin in the same way that JFK sympathised with Kruschev.IE diplomacy with a big nuclear stick.For all of NATO’s pathetic conventional containment strategy if we get into a fight with Russia it will still go nuclear within 48 hours of the first shots being fired.So how low do you want to set the bar for Mutually Assured Destruction here.
No one here really wants to die over your virtue signalling.
Also bearing in mind that Putin’s strings are being pulled by Beijing and if we bring him down he’ll only be replaced by someone much worse and even more to China’s liking just like happened in Iraq.
cav551:
^^^
Since when have Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea been in the West, all of which support Ukraine?
So Putin is a poor misunderstood cuddly little darling with whom we should all sympathise? The murders in our country of Alexander Litvinenko, and Dawn Sturgess (both UK Citizens) and the poisoning of Sergei & Julia Scripol never happened. And not only did Putin have nothing to do with either, the destruction of Grozny, Allepo and Mariupol and the forceable removal of the latter’s citizens to Russia are all Western propaganda too?
lol.
You’re not wrong. But we have killed citizens in foreign countries ourselves. Also when we boycotted Russian oil we just started buying Saudi oil. Who is led by Mohammend Bin Salman who killed a Journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
Putin is not a nice person. Anyone who says differently is probably getting most of their information off of Facebook. That being said… A lot of what Winseer says is correct.
To be honest my biggest concern with Ukraine is Zelenskyy loses control of Ukraine to the Azov Battalion and a lot of the other far right in Ukraine that he is beholden to. They have a lot of power. Personally, I think they are also a significant part of the issue in stoking the war in the first place. There were videos online of Zelenskyy trying to tell them to stop fighting the pro Russian in the Donbass in 2015-2017 ish and they refused him. They are extremely hostile to Russians and have been fighting them for over a decade at this point.
So when Putin did go to war over Ukraine… He had a valid argument when he said he was protecting ethnic Russians.
Does it make it right that he invaded Ukraine though? No, of course not. But, this war there are so many shades of grey… It is not the clear cut Good vs Bad that the mainstream media likes to make it out to be.
Which actually translates as Ukraine continues to supply Russian ally China with grain.Obviously no ‘defiance’ of Russia happening there.
We’re being played by our own laughable propaganda.
Unlike twin engine F15 and Eurofighter and Raphael etc F16’s aren’t and never were designed to be air superiority fighters.
Russia is just playing cat and mouse with Ukraine and NATO so far. It hasn’t even got close to committing its full capabilities in artillery and air power for good reason.It’s holding them back for a/the potential fight with NATO.
Having said that it wouldn’t take long for a squadron or two of SU35’s to totally slaughter even a superior number of F16’s and Ukraine knows it.Assuming the whole thing isn’t just a staged pretext to cover the phased piecemeal surrender of the free world’s arsenal to a CCP/Russian/WEF run stitch up.
We’ve already seen the decimation of our defences both conventional tactical and strategic nuclear v the combined arsenal of China and Russia.
Isn’t it strange, that we’ve heard no tales of shot-down planes on EITHER side - crashing into civilian areas either in or outside Ukraine…
No war previously has had such massive holes in the video/TV presentation of it to even their own people…
Even in the news today, there seems to be a total lack of detail as to how many of the other side have been killed by the “Super accurate fantastic Ukrainian military targeting Russian towns”…
the news coverage on the war is a joke…
We only ever seem to hear how good Ukraine are doing… Only positive news. Unless it is some Russian bombing atrocity.
So its either UKRAINE GAINS GROUND or RUSSIA BOMBS SCHOOL /
There is no impartial news… which is disappointing. Heck you cant even visit the Russia State Media to see what there take is so you can try to piece together a narrative that makes sense. As our government… that believes in freedom of the press has banned RT. rt.com/
Completely shameful to ban a Russian news source. Yea, it is propaganda but so is the BBC…
We have not even banned North Korea’s state news yet we have banned Russia’s lol. kcna.kp/en
cav551:
^^^
Since when have Australia, New Zealand, Japan and South Korea been in the West, all of which support Ukraine?
So Putin is a poor misunderstood cuddly little darling with whom we should all sympathise? The murders in our country of Alexander Litvinenko, and Dawn Sturgess (both UK Citizens) and the poisoning of Sergei & Julia Scripol never happened. And not only did Putin have nothing to do with either, the destruction of Grozny, Allepo and Mariupol and the forceable removal of the latter’s citizens to Russia are all Western propaganda too?
You know as well as I do that the countries you mention - are honarary “Western” countries for the purpose of this argument.
As such, notice that they all fall in-line with Western Deep State Dictats, such as “Thou shalt trust Ukraine over any nominated autocratic ruler we tell you to hate”.
I don’t give a toss if a handful of actual guilty criminals get bumped off on my patch, but I DO care if Medicines are force-fed into our arms with the result that if even 1 in 1000 die from a bothced injection alone (i.e. no malice aforethought) - then the Covid Scamdemic has already claimed the lives of MILLIONS of under-50’s who never needed the jab in the first place, but were forced to take it, or have their livlihoods taken away…
(Looks towards the large number of deaths in the Sporting world these past 3 years in particular)
It’s not about what anyone can prove - it is about nowadays what you BELIEVE.
If I believe that someone killing me “Makes me dead” - then that’s not a conspiracy, it’s almost a FAITH by this point.
Kennedy Jr - is bang on the money, and yet people treat him like he’s some kind of David Ike Nutter…
(David Ike was right about the floods we seem to be having - big time - but that’s beside the point…)
