nearly there:
Because some scottish people see themselfs a scottish others see themselfs as british.for me no one side have gave a good arguement.ill be happy just to ditch the tories and lib dems
The bit that seems to be forgotten by all sides is that there are English people who see themselves as English and who see the actions of the English government,in forcing the UK union on Scotland,Ireland and Wales ( and England ), as an injustice to all sides and contrary to the interests of keeping the seperate nation’s identities and sovereignty.Which should always be the priority above all else.
Carryfast:
Which then leaves the issue and contradiction of so called ‘seperatist/nationalists’ being pro federalist,
You missed out the Religious issue, didn’t want to dip ya toe in ? !!
Being of mixed,mostly English C of E with some Catholic Irish Republican background,who thinks that Longshanks,Henry V111 and the Redcoats were all a bunch of murderous heretic zb’s I didn’t need to go there.
Carryfast:
Which then leaves the issue and contradiction of so called ‘seperatist/nationalists’ being pro federalist,
You missed out the Religious issue, didn’t want to dip ya toe in ? !!
Being of mixed,mostly English C of E with some Catholic Irish Republican background,who thinks that Longshanks,Henry V111 and the Redcoats were all a bunch of murderous heretic zb’s I didn’t need to go there.
Carryfast:
Which then leaves the issue and contradiction of so called ‘seperatist/nationalists’ being pro federalist,
You missed out the Religious issue, didn’t want to dip ya toe in ? !!
Being of mixed,mostly English C of E with some Catholic Irish Republican background,who thinks that Longshanks,Henry V111 and the Redcoats were all a bunch of murderous heretic zb’s I didn’t need to go there.
Couldn’t agree with you more are you from Ireland
No mate, he lives in Kent and he’s in the Army !!!
Carryfast:
Which then leaves the issue and contradiction of so called ‘seperatist/nationalists’ being pro federalist,
You missed out the Religious issue, didn’t want to dip ya toe in ? !!
Being of mixed,mostly English C of E with some Catholic Irish Republican background,who thinks that Longshanks,Henry V111 and the Redcoats were all a bunch of murderous heretic zb’s I didn’t need to go there.
Couldn’t agree with you more are you from Ireland
No only my Grandmother was Irish who to cut a long story short was brought here by a relative as a young girl because the family was broken up when her 16 year old brother was shot by the British army very soon after the Anglo Irish treaty was signed.Which the family had ironically supported but which then put them on the ‘wrong’ side of the border.He was the only breadwinner in the household their father having died previously and their mother being terminally ill.Her other younger brothers and sisters were taken to America.
Carryfast:
Which then leaves the issue and contradiction of so called ‘seperatist/nationalists’ being pro federalist,
You missed out the Religious issue, didn’t want to dip ya toe in ? !!
Being of mixed,mostly English C of E with some Catholic Irish Republican background,who thinks that Longshanks,Henry V111 and the Redcoats were all a bunch of murderous heretic zb’s I didn’t need to go there.
Couldn’t agree with you more are you from Ireland
No mate, he lives in Kent and he’s in the Army !!!
It would appear to me that the Scottish people have a huge chance to rid themselves of rule from London. As stated earlier they make enough cash to support themselves easily & that’s all it comes down to in the end, what services can I get for my cash, not what some king did hundreds of years ago. As I’ve said before I’ve yet to meet a scots person that considers themselves British but I’ve met plenty that hate the English. I just cannot believe they are dithering about which way to vote. Having said that it could be that they just wouldn’t feel comfortable without big bad England to blame for all their woes
Carryfast:
Which then leaves the issue and contradiction of so called ‘seperatist/nationalists’ being pro federalist,
You missed out the Religious issue, didn’t want to dip ya toe in ? !!
Being of mixed,mostly English C of E with some Catholic Irish Republican background,who thinks that Longshanks,Henry V111 and the Redcoats were all a bunch of murderous heretic zb’s I didn’t need to go there.
Couldn’t agree with you more are you from Ireland
No only my Grandmother was Irish who to cut a long story short was brought here by a relative as a young girl because the family was broken up when her 16 year old brother was shot by the British army very soon after the Anglo Irish treaty was signed.Which the family had ironically supported but which then put them on the ‘wrong’ side of the border.He was the only breadwinner in the household their father having died previously and their mother being terminally ill.Her other younger brothers and sisters were taken to America.
Alright it’s good to see someone now’s their family history I don’t now anything about mine except we’re irish
slackadder, i am scottish and have many friends and work mates in england , so do not tell me that every one in scotland hate the english, there are divides in all society as far as i am concerened i have had the pleasure of friendship of many english people and hope this will continue
to cut a long story short. most of the people of scotland do not hate the english, but most of the people of scotland hate the english goverment. WHY you only need to look at the past. So give us an answer as to why we should vote otherwise
It is only natural that when things like the economy are not good people want better and these are the misguided people who might vote for independance based on the crap that Salmond is promising.
These are exactly the sort of people Salmond is trying to exploit in the hope of gaining power for himself.
In the 1930’s the world was in a recession and a little bloke from Austria with a funny mustach blamed germanys problems on other people such as the jews and created hatred and destruction to gain power for himself.
Salmond is no better than Hitler.
This ■■■ a few years ago stood in front of a camera and claimed if Scotland got independance there economy would boom like Icelands and the Republic of Irelands, a few months later the recession hit and Iceland was bankrupt owing billions and the Republic of Ireland economy collapsed as well.
Statistics show that Britain (as a whole) is leading the way out of the recession ahead of other European countries, would Scotland be doing this on its own ? I dont think so.
Salmond will say anything to get power.
I am a geordie living in Northumberland (right on Hadrians wall) and have nothing against the Scots and feel I have more in common with them than some ■■■■■■ in London but I think Scotland would be making a mistake going independant.
Together we are better …Why fix something that is not broken.
gasman:
to cut a long story short. most of the people of scotland do not hate the english, but most of the people of scotland hate the english goverment. WHY you only need to look at the past. So give us an answer as to why we should vote otherwise
This ^.
But to go further, a lot of Scots still remember how Thatcher imposed the Poll Tax on the Scots, then dropped the idea before it was imposed on the rest of the UK but the Scots were stuck with it.
The tactics of the “No” campaign saying you cannot have the £, I think has backfired. Lets face it half the shops in England won’t accept Scottish notes anyway. However it is nice to hand over a £1 note and get change from a £5.
There is a strong feeling here that we get a Westminster Govt, that we did not vote for and that it is too remote from Scotland. To balance that, that is exactly how Shetland Islanders feel about Holyrood.
I think the result will be close. I don’t see an overwhelming majority one way or the other. I just hope that everyone who is entitled to vote, does so. However so long as the “No” campaign focuses on the negative aspects of independence rather than the positives of the current Union, they could end up pushing people to vote yes.
Scotland paid £64.1 billion (sixty-four thousand one hundred million pounds) interest on debt that Scotland had no need for, simply because we are not an independent country! As a result, on average, £2,000 million was ripped out of the heart of Scotland’s economy every year for 32 years, to pay interest on loans that Scotland didn’t take out and didn’t need.
Interesting quote, but how do you know that Scotland had no benefit from the loans acquired by the British govt.
Could Scotland have paid all the benefits without help from Whitehall, and of course the £2,000 million would be oil revenues I suppose, so where did the money come from to subsidise the Scottish economy before oil was found ?
Anyone can play with figures if they set there own parameters on when to start the comparison and when to finish it.
irish lorries:
I wonder if this could start troubles in Scotland
Hopefully and ironically if it breaks up the UK union will break up peacefully over a period of time unlike the way it came into being and the circumstances of it’s continuance over the years through history.As I’ve said the key will be a change in mindset of the English ( which is where the unionist cause originated and which would then remove the reason for being of the unionist cause ) in seeing the union for what it really is and has always been.IE a pointless illusion of unity that was built and founded on bloodshed and heartache and which strangled the rightful idea of the the British Isles’ seperate sovereign nation states instead of celebrating it.
The really sad thing for all those who’ve suffered through that illegitimate union is if only the English had seen that from it’s start or at least knocked the project on it’s head at some much earlier point in history.Whatever eventually happens in that regard it’s going to take time but hopefully the days of the argument involving violence on whatever side are over.
I don’t Del. Have you seen a break down of how those loans were spent? I assume we did benefit.
The 3 main parties have said no to a currency union, but want an independent Scotland to contribute
to a UK debt. Is that fair? Incidentally the new currency will be ginger bottles and bin motors will be
the new mobile banks.
When I see the same information from different sources, then I start to take notice.
I have no doubt before the oil was discovered and developed that Scotland was gaining from Westminster,
similarly will a Westminster give more to Wales and Northern Ireland because an independent Scotland is no
longer part of the Barnett formula or will that £8K per person in Scotland ( at current figures) magically disappear, some £40 billion.
However go back to 1921 an Annual return of the Govt at that time shows this
gasman:
slackadder, i am scottish and have many friends and work mates in england , so do not tell me that every one in scotland hate the english, there are divides in all society as far as i am concerened i have had the pleasure of friendship of many english people and hope this will continue
I didn’t actually say everyone in Scotland hate the English.
Slackbladder:
As I’ve said before I’ve yet to meet a scots person that considers themselves British but I’ve met plenty that hate the English.
And I say this because it’s true, during my time in the Army I worked with many individuals, and with Scottish regiments, I cannot think of even one person that had anything good to say about the English & all, to a man, considered themselves Scottish never British.
To me too many people focus on the individual, as in “salmond is a looney so I’m voting no” or “Cameron is a public school toff so I’m voting yes”. Too often these days people vote, or don’t vote, based on the personality of the leaders rather than the issues.
The Scottish people have a chance to rule themselves, unhindered by London, they should take it.
nab:
It is only natural that when things like the economy are not good people want better and these are the misguided people who might vote for independance based on the crap that Salmond is promising.
These are exactly the sort of people Salmond is trying to exploit in the hope of gaining power for himself.
In the 1930’s the world was in a recession and a little bloke from Austria with a funny mustach blamed germanys problems on other people such as the jews and created hatred and destruction to gain power for himself.
Salmond is no better than Hitler.
This ■■■ a few years ago stood in front of a camera and claimed if Scotland got independance there economy would boom like Icelands and the Republic of Irelands, a few months later the recession hit and Iceland was bankrupt owing billions and the Republic of Ireland economy collapsed as well.
Statistics show that Britain (as a whole) is leading the way out of the recession ahead of other European countries, would Scotland be doing this on its own ? I dont think so.
Salmond will say anything to get power.
I am a geordie living in Northumberland (right on Hadrians wall) and have nothing against the Scots and feel I have more in common with them than some ■■■■■■ in London but I think Scotland would be making a mistake going independant.in a few months
Together we are better …Why fix something that is not broken.
Surprised this crap coming from a Geordie who is no better off than us, all this about Salmond wanting power for himself is a load of rubbish if the
yes wins like anywhere else in a few months there would be Elections and it could any of the other Parties who could win and it would be there Leader who would be the top man not Salmond, as far as comparing him to Hitler,is going a bit too far, do you know who Hitler was ?,I think that remark should have been removed.
gasman:
slackadder, i am scottish and have many friends and work mates in england , so do not tell me that every one in scotland hate the english, there are divides in all society as far as i am concerened i have had the pleasure of friendship of many english people and hope this will continue
I didn’t actually say everyone in Scotland hate the English.
Slackbladder:
As I’ve said before I’ve yet to meet a scots person that considers themselves British but I’ve met plenty that hate the English.
And I say this because it’s true, during my time in the Army I worked with many individuals, and with Scottish regiments, I cannot think of even one person that had anything good to say about the English & all, to a man, considered themselves Scottish never British.
To me too many people focus on the individual, as in “salmond is a looney so I’m voting no” or “Cameron is a public school toff so I’m voting yes”. Too often these days people vote, or don’t vote, based on the personality of the leaders rather than the issues.
The Scottish people have a chance to rule themselves, unhindered by London, they should take it.
The fact is the union was/is all about the English.The whole issue could/should be brought to a close simply by the English finally realising that the project was wrong and dismantling it from within at it’s start point not at the edges.In which case the unionist cause in Ireland,Scotland and Wales would become an irrelevance anyway because unionism is all about union with England.If you take England out of the frame it’s a case of job done.IE the English have a chance to join the Scottish nationalist cause by saying that we want out too.Thereby putting right a historic wrong,that’s taken place over centuries of history,within a matter of months.
