Harry Monk:
irish lorries:
I’m republican and I agree I think Scotland Wales and England should be different countries and northern ireland should be part of the republic of IrelandAnd how do the people of Northern Ireland feel about this?
The Republicans will think its like the Euro vote (i.e you get two goes to get it right), the loyalists will think its a shame if Scotland leaves the UK. Thats my assesment anyway !! 
gazsa401:
So Mike C that’s what I’d fight for home rule for England
The sooner this club breaks up the better
I’d agree. I’d also think ,given they’ve all striven to have their own Parliments i.e NI, Wales and Scotland that they’d agree too? So, have you played any part in this revolution you mentioned? I havn’t revolted, i’m just hoping that it will happen. The biggest sign of a revolution i can see from English voters is to ask “The West Lothian Question”, then nothing happens ? The English appathy over the issue is quite disconcerting. But then again many of them havn’t been here that long so they’ll take a while to digest it all !
I’m completely undecided about Scotland, there is pros and cons to both sides. I do kinda think they will be shooting themselves in the foot of they do to for independence. As I can see a lot of big changes for them mostly financial eg RBS what will happen with that would it actually be sold to the Scottish taxpayer for the billions the British taxpayer bailed it out for? The fact there will be no currency union at all what will they do in the mean time up until the point of when (if) they get into the EU and adopt the euro?
Winseer you’re typically displaying the human conditions of over thinking and thinking were more important and that’s there’s nothing else more than we’re born we grow up we breed we die. That’s that next you’ll be saying you don’t believe in evolution because most scientists are atheists. Religion is the opiate of the masses is it not?
jamiep1988:
Religion is the opiate of the masses is it not?
Religion has been Peer Reviewed by the Pope,backed up by some big names like Tony Blair, The Queen, George W.Bush, what more do ya need to believe its kosher?
Mike-C:
Harry Monk:
irish lorries:
I’m republican and I agree I think Scotland Wales and England should be different countries and northern ireland should be part of the republic of IrelandAnd how do the people of Northern Ireland feel about this?
The Republicans will think its like the Euro vote (i.e you get two goes to get it right), the loyalists will think its a shame if Scotland leaves the UK. Thats my assesment anyway !!
And the people who couldn’t give a ■■■■ and the loyalist will start throwing things at the police and will take down there Scottish flags and burn them
Mike-C:
jamiep1988:
Religion is the opiate of the masses is it not?Religion has been Peer Reviewed by the Pope,backed up by some big names like Tony Blair, The Queen, George W.Bush, what more do ya need to believe its kosher?
Is that the same G W and value that swore there were WMD’s in Iraq?? Lol
Mike-C:
gazsa401:
So Mike C that’s what I’d fight for home rule for England
The sooner this club breaks up the betterI’d agree. I’d also think ,given they’ve all striven to have their own Parliments i.e NI, Wales and Scotland that they’d agree too? So, have you played any part in this revolution you mentioned? I havn’t revolted, i’m just hoping that it will happen. The biggest sign of a revolution i can see from English voters is to ask “The West Lothian Question”, then nothing happens ? The English appathy over the issue is quite disconcerting. But then again many of them havn’t been here that long so they’ll take a while to digest it all !
If you read my previous posts I said roll on the revolution so when hopefully your lot clear off us English can have our parliament that’s the revolution I’ll be fighting for and you can rejoin the EU adopt the Mickey Mouse euro and become a basket case country like Ireland Greece Italy and Spain and sponge off the rest of the EU
Talking about apathy I think you’ve got a cheek because all your lot do is moan about the oil and nothing else
Regarding the West Lothian Question it was again one of your lot Tam Dalyell that raised the question in the Westminster parliament and quite rightly so why should non English MPs vote on English matters all your lot seem to do is do very well from being in this cosy club you get more GDP per head than the rest of us
I have been around a lot longer than you think
I’ll give Alex Salmond his due he’s stuck to his principles for years which I’ll take my hat off to
I just wish we had a politician with the same vigour
Nae bother
Don’t confuse “organised religion” with believing in something more powerful than oneself.
The lucky ones among us have some profound experience in life that convinces us that we’re more than just an erect ape on this Earth.
The unlucky ones will always be looking for proof that never comes - because it’s not and can’t be recognised as proof when it does.
The Brave ones have decided there is no proof to be had, and think those that have had the experience they have not as being in some way “weak minded”.
I’ve rubbed shoulders with a lot of scientists over the years (my first job being working in a lab as well) and I’d suggest that the spread of atheists/agnostics/organised religion attending/deist/privately religious is the same as in many other industries that involved exposure to said establishments.
Among the elite, Atheism rises, because it’s a good way of keeping the status quo in one’s life.
Among the lower classes, Atheism doesn’t do so well, because one has possibly excluded oneself from areas of social activity (such as Weddings in Church, Bar Mitzvahs, Baptisms, etc) that mean that elevation isn’t likely to come from the depleted other areas of life experienced by the average manual working bod.
Therefore it’s “brave” to be Atheist when working class, and “brave” to be religious when upper class… - It’s because you’ll get abused by others alongside you whom you don’t fit in with.
Likewise,
Compare this all to being “agnostic” which is just sitting on the fence, and makes you no friends above or below, and leaves you wide open to being recruited by anyone who can impress one in a more “Earthly” fashion. Not good. 
Let’s also not confuse the Agnostics who “call” themselves “Atheists” but since they have no actual conviction in their own lack of belief, they are nothing more than the worse kind of agnostic. Someone who doesn’t want to side anywhere, and will end up being ignored by all. There’s more UFO spotters, David Ike and Fortean Times readers who are really “rank and file agnostic” than there are sincere atheists or religious people who prefer basing life’s decisions on the experiences that life has already (…or will in the future!) give them.
Getting back to the topic - Do Scots believe in the UK, or would they rather just get shot of being “tied to the rest of the British Isles”?
Scotland has a lot of Catholics, and I think outside the big cities, a lot less Atheists than down here in Sassenach land.
You can’t say “God bless an independent Scotland!” if you don’t believe in God, but you can say “Dammit!” regardless of what you believe if the poll ends up going Cameron’s “no” way, which would make that idiot unstoppable down here next year, a prospect that fills me with dread.
Not being Scottish (but sometimes confused with one from having a Scottish name…) I’m neutral as to the rights and wrongs of them leaving the UK - as far as they are concerned. I think the UK will be poorer without them though… Didn’t people confuse Tony Blair with being a Sassenach because he spoke like one btw?
The only part of me actually in favour of a “yes” vote is that it would spread the north-of-the-border Conservative dearth down here, where it would come in much appreciated good time for next year’s election… No minor party is going to win enough seats to make a difference unless the Tories lose a HUGE number of seats, perhaps over the devolution mishandling as it will be seen, should the vote go the “yes” way… 
GV 9 - massively overweight !
Harry Monk:
irish lorries:
I’m republican and I agree I think Scotland Wales and England should be different countries and northern ireland should be part of the republic of IrelandAnd how do the people of Northern Ireland feel about this?
With the difference that the divisions between the Unionist and Nationalist populations are probably more extreme,the issues applying,in regards to the question of the future of Northern Ireland,aren’t much different to those which apply in Scotland.IE a population that’s split between those who want to remain tied to England within the UK union as opposed to those who don’t.Which then leaves the question of the proportion of the English population that would prefer to see the UK broken up into it’s seperate independent nation states.It’s obvious that if the English would prefer England to go it’s seperate way then the whole Unionist cause would lose it’s reason for being wether in Scotland or Northern Ireland or here.
Until a consensus regarding that is reached on all sides,then at least in the case of Ireland, those divisions are probably so extreme and entrenched that,as Michael Collins rightly decided,the border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland is as good as it’s likely to get for the foreseeable future.
irish lorries:
Mike-C:
Harry Monk:
irish lorries:
I’m republican and I agree I think Scotland Wales and England should be different countries and northern ireland should be part of the republic of IrelandAnd how do the people of Northern Ireland feel about this?
The Republicans will think its like the Euro vote (i.e you get two goes to get it right), the loyalists will think its a shame if Scotland leaves the UK. Thats my assesment anyway !!
And the people who couldn’t give a [zb] and the loyalist will start throwing things at the police and will take down there Scottish flags and burn them
I always wonder why they don;t totally wrong foot them and go over and shake their hand and say "you’re doing a great job for us guys, keep it up and look after us " ?
gazsa401:
If you read my previous posts I said roll on the revolution so when hopefully your lot clear off us English can have our parliament that’s the revolution I’ll be fighting for and you can rejoin the EU adopt the Mickey Mouse euro and become a basket case country like Ireland Greece Italy and Spain and sponge off the rest of the EU
Talking about apathy I think you’ve got a cheek because all your lot do is moan about the oil and nothing else
Regarding the West Lothian Question it was again one of your lot Tam Dalyell that raised the question in the Westminster parliament and quite rightly so why should non English MPs vote on English matters all your lot seem to do is do very well from being in this cosy club you get more GDP per head than the rest of us
I have been around a lot longer than you think
I’ll give Alex Salmond his due he’s stuck to his principles for years which I’ll take my hat off to
I just wish we had a politician with the same vigour
Nae bother
I guessed you right in the first place. Not only do you come across as obnoxious, you do no research yet tell me to read your previous posts.
I’m English Gaz, i’m not what you refer to as a “sweatie”, or “one of your lot”. I’m English.
Feel dumb now don’t ya !!!
Mike-C:
irish lorries:
Mike-C:
Harry Monk:
irish lorries:
I’m republican and I agree I think Scotland Wales and England should be different countries and northern ireland should be part of the republic of IrelandAnd how do the people of Northern Ireland feel about this?
The Republicans will think its like the Euro vote (i.e you get two goes to get it right), the loyalists will think its a shame if Scotland leaves the UK. Thats my assesment anyway !!
And the people who couldn’t give a [zb] and the loyalist will start throwing things at the police and will take down there Scottish flags and burn them
I always wonder why they don;t totally wrong foot them and go over and shake their hand and say "you’re doing a great job for us guys, keep it up and look after us " ?
The solution to the Irish problem was always more in the hands of the English by saying that we no longer want the UK union.IE in the case of the English wanting a seperate independent England the loyalists have nothing to be loyal to other than their own country or they’ll have to move to England.Which would also remove the issue in Scotland and Wales too.
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
irish lorries:
I’m republican and I agree I think Scotland Wales and England should be different countries and northern ireland should be part of the republic of IrelandAnd how do the people of Northern Ireland feel about this?
With the difference that the divisions between the Unionist and Nationalist populations are probably more extreme,the issues applying,in regards to the question of the future of Northern Ireland,aren’t much different to those which apply in Scotland.IE a population that’s split between those who want to remain tied to England within the UK union as opposed to those who don’t.Which then leaves the question of the proportion of the English population that would prefer to see the UK broken up into it’s seperate independent nation states.It’s obvious that if the English would prefer England to go it’s seperate way then the whole Unionist cause would lose it’s reason for being wether in Scotland or Northern Ireland or here.
Until a consensus regarding that is reached on all sides,then at least in the case of Ireland, those divisions are probably so extreme and entrenched that,as Michael Collins rightly decided,the border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland is as good as it’s likely to get for the foreseeable future.
Very true and what do you english people think of the unionist
Carryfast:
The solution to the Irish problem was always more in the hands of the English by saying that we no longer want the UK union.IE in the case of the English wanting a seperate independent England the loyalists have nothing to be loyal to other than their own country or they’ll have to move to England.Which would also remove the issue in Scotland and Wales too.
Let me just stop you there. We don’t have an Irish problem. The UK, or rather the Crown had a problem in Ireland. It thought it solved it by moving a load of immigrants from the UK to there to sort it out. That smart move has resulted in the death/killing of hundreds/thousands of people. The Queens stills smiles as she gives her xmas message on TV.
Any Irish issue there is, is down to the Queen and her family, not the English people. I’ve yet to meet an English person who is interested in Ireland, politically.
irish lorries:
Very true and what do you english people think of the unionist
My own personal feeling is that people want to be ruled, governed, have democracy at a more local level than EU, or Westminster. Thats what i see and what i hear. So i don’t see many “Unionists” in England. You’ll find “unionists” in Westminster !!!
Mike-C:
gazsa401:
If you read my previous posts I said roll on the revolution so when hopefully your lot clear off us English can have our parliament that’s the revolution I’ll be fighting for and you can rejoin the EU adopt the Mickey Mouse euro and become a basket case country like Ireland Greece Italy and Spain and sponge off the rest of the EU
Talking about apathy I think you’ve got a cheek because all your lot do is moan about the oil and nothing else
Regarding the West Lothian Question it was again one of your lot Tam Dalyell that raised the question in the Westminster parliament and quite rightly so why should non English MPs vote on English matters all your lot seem to do is do very well from being in this cosy club you get more GDP per head than the rest of us
I have been around a lot longer than you think
I’ll give Alex Salmond his due he’s stuck to his principles for years which I’ll take my hat off to
I just wish we had a politician with the same vigour
Nae bother
I guessed you right in the first place. Not only do you come across as obnoxious, you do no research yet tell me to read your previous posts.
I’m English Gaz, i’m not what you refer to as a “sweatie”, or “one of your lot”. I’m English.
Feel dumb now don’t ya !!! [/quote
Again my friend take your blinkers off and tell me where I’ve referred you as being a sweatie
What part of research would you like me to look at and far from it I don’t feel dumb quite the opposite really plus I’ve been called a lot better names than that so keep trying and you might come up with something a little better next time
It seems to me Mr Carryfast no one is allowed to disagree with Mike C I thought this topic was about Scottish independence so as long as we all agree with Mike C then there should be no problem
It’s called freedom of speech I take it you’ve not been around long enough to understand that there’s always 2 sides to a debate you want to try it sometime and don’t dismiss other peoples comments
Me and Mr Carryfast have different views on Gardner Diesel engines on the adult forum called Old time lorries and drivers you should have a look sometime and you might learn that everyone’s opinion is the same as yours bye for now
gazsa401:
Mike-C:
gazsa401:
If you read my previous posts I said roll on the revolution so when hopefully your lot clear off us English can have our parliament that’s the revolution I’ll be fighting for and you can rejoin the EU adopt the Mickey Mouse euro and become a basket case country like Ireland Greece Italy and Spain and sponge off the rest of the EU
Talking about apathy I think you’ve got a cheek because all your lot do is moan about the oil and nothing else
Regarding the West Lothian Question it was again one of your lot Tam Dalyell that raised the question in the Westminster parliament and quite rightly so why should non English MPs vote on English matters all your lot seem to do is do very well from being in this cosy club you get more GDP per head than the rest of us
I have been around a lot longer than you think
I’ll give Alex Salmond his due he’s stuck to his principles for years which I’ll take my hat off to
I just wish we had a politician with the same vigour
Nae botherI guessed you right in the first place. Not only do you come across as obnoxious, you do no research yet tell me to read your previous posts.
I’m English Gaz, i’m not what you refer to as a “sweatie”, or “one of your lot”. I’m English.
Feel dumb now don’t ya !!!
[/quote
Again my friend take your blinkers off and tell me where I’ve referred you as being a sweatie
What part of research would you like me to look at and far from it I don’t feel dumb quite the opposite really plus I’ve been called a lot better names than that so keep trying and you might come up with something a little better next time
Very true this user now’s ■■■■ all about what he’s talking about
irish lorries:
gazsa401:
Mike-C:
gazsa401:
If you read my previous posts I said roll on the revolution so when hopefully your lot clear off us English can have our parliament that’s the revolution I’ll be fighting for and you can rejoin the EU adopt the Mickey Mouse euro and become a basket case country like Ireland Greece Italy and Spain and sponge off the rest of the EU
Talking about apathy I think you’ve got a cheek because all your lot do is moan about the oil and nothing else
Regarding the West Lothian Question it was again one of your lot Tam Dalyell that raised the question in the Westminster parliament and quite rightly so why should non English MPs vote on English matters all your lot seem to do is do very well from being in this cosy club you get more GDP per head than the rest of us
I have been around a lot longer than you think
I’ll give Alex Salmond his due he’s stuck to his principles for years which I’ll take my hat off to
I just wish we had a politician with the same vigour
Nae botherI guessed you right in the first place. Not only do you come across as obnoxious, you do no research yet tell me to read your previous posts.
I’m English Gaz, i’m not what you refer to as a “sweatie”, or “one of your lot”. I’m English.
Feel dumb now don’t ya !!!
[/quote
Again my friend take your blinkers off and tell me where I’ve referred you as being a sweatie
What part of research would you like me to look at and far from it I don’t feel dumb quite the opposite really plus I’ve been called a lot better names than that so keep trying and you might come up with something a little better next timeVery true this user now’s [zb] all about what he’s talking about
So give us your thoughts then