Winseer:
…But something that over 80% of us are in favour of, like “getting out of Europe” or “Re-instating capital punishment” or “taxing the biggest shoulders the most” - never gets a look-in. Ever.
We never get asked on issues where the government knows what the public want, but just won’t do it.
Are over 80% in favour of reinstating capital punishment? That’s a depressing statistic, if it’s true.
The statistic is for “Child Killers Only”. It’s been a few years since the last poll of such specialist nature.
Thatcher was in favour, but made the mistake of offering a free vote on it instead of a three line whip… 
Add “Terroists and other mass murders” and the “approval figure” strangely drops towards 60%.
Even when one adds “Cop Killers” and “engineered multiple murders” (serial killers, gangland killings, cover-up eliminations) and the figure drops to around 50%.
Personally, I’ve never understood how those “against the death penalty across the board” can sleep at night when a convicted killer gets out of jail after 15 years, and then does it all over again…
Imagine if that was YOUR child, spouse, or colleague and the opportunity was passed on to get rid of the convicted killer once and for all first time they got a multiple-murder conviction…
The A6 killer James Hanratty springs to mind… Appeals by relatives after he was hanged, but eventually DNA evidence trashed all the “we shouldn’t have topped him” lobby - it confirmed the original conviction. At 25 when hanged, he might have spent 50 years in jail on a “whole of life term”, very likely outliving many of the victim’s families. How perverse is THAT?
Derek Bentley? Tim Evans? - They are the names we associated with “rough justice that cannot be corrected” - but I don’t buy into the argument that “It’s better to let 100 guilty killers go free” (to do it again just once would be bad enough here!) than execute an innocent man… Is the sacrifice of one innocent worth the saving of hundreds of other lives? What if we were that innocent about to go to the gallows? I’d consider laying down my life to save the lives of 100 others a “Hero’s Death” in every way… Perhaps there’s a link to those who believe that death is the end and the total belief that “killing an innocent is a far worse disaster for those who go to nothing” - but that is a philosophical argument at best.
Even “Life meaning life” such as the Lee Rigby killers got has the downside of “costing the taxpayer well over a million” by the time they’ve had the time to die in jail with their colour TV’s, pool tables, decent living conditions etc… We strangely don’t have any “harsh prisons” for the express purpose of punishing the most vile of criminals in a manner that would very much appease the most liberal member of the public…
Without Justice, the law is an ■■■. Without the law, we merely live in a non-society of organised anarchy by any other name. 
Winseer:
Derek Bentley? Tim Evans? - They are the names we associated with “rough justice that cannot be corrected” - but I don’t buy into the argument that “It’s better to let 100 guilty killers go free” (to do it again just once would be bad enough here!) than execute an innocent man… Is the sacrifice of one innocent worth the saving of hundreds of other lives? What if we were that innocent about to go to the gallows? I’d consider laying down my life to save the lives of 100 others a “Hero’s Death” in every way… Perhaps there’s a link to those who believe that death is the end and the total belief that “killing an innocent is a far worse disaster for those who go to nothing” - but that is a philosophical argument at best.
In fairness, it’s very easy to say that when there’s less than no chance of you being called upon to do just that. But would you be quite so eager to see, say, your wife’s wrongful execution, or that of your son or daughter, in the same light? I’m willing to bet a substantial amount that you wouldn’t …
It’s a well-known statistic that “One has more chance of being killed this friday in a road accident than winning the lottery”.
Likewise, I accept the odds that there’s more chance of being murdered by a third party - MUCH more chance - than being wrongly convicted on a murder charge…
Those who are convinced they go to nothing at death have already taken a much bigger chance than the one I’m taking if you like…
I find it either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid that it’s considered “normal” for anyone with a brain to also be an atheist, and have no future vision for their own soul’s welfare - indeed, don’t even believe they HAVE a soul. For that vast group of people, death must truly be terrifying.
Consider service personell who having accepted that their “chosen lifestyle might lead to their premature death”, find themselves NOT fearing death (in general) anywhere near as much as the general population. There are far more religious people among the armed forces than in “civvy street” as well. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
Getting back to the topic in hand - It’s noted that even darn sarth here, a large number of squaddies are Scots. Does this imply that Scots have a different mindset to us down here? Are Scots more religious than we sassenachs are as well?
I wish the Scots well in whatever they choose to do with their future. I just hope that vote is a good and clear enough majority so they don’t feel they have to be asked that question again any time soon. I don’t care much for Salmond’s personal ambiitions, but I have noticed a number of other rather capable ministers who might one day replace HIM, which makes me feel that an independant Scotland will be in safe hands.
My hat is off to Nicola Sturgeon as perhaps the most capable minister out of all of them. 
Winseer:
Those who are convinced they go to nothing at death have already taken a much bigger chance than the one I’m taking if you like…
I find it either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid that it’s considered “normal” for anyone with a brain to also be an atheist, and have no future vision for their own soul’s welfare - indeed, don’t even believe they HAVE a soul. For that vast group of people, death must truly be terrifying.
At risk of straying off topic massively and this discussion is better on a thread of its own that can stretch to 1000’s of pages. Atheism is not so much the belief that there is nothing after life and that death is the end it is more a choice to abstain from religion and mankinds historical use of it to justify attrocious behavour based on some misguided belief that some deity of the day agrees with it.
The default setting at birth is atheist as we haven’t yet been introduced to the worlds myths and fairy stories, ironic as its the one point we are closest to creation.
We all find out in the end anyway so between now and then just be nice to each other (to be on the safe side) and let Scotland run free.
Jonnydiesel:
Hi, im new to trucknetuk so hope im posting this in the right place.
I have one night out a week in scotland and was just wondering what will happen if Scotland vote for independence this year? if they do vote to leave the uk then I cant put that im booking off in the Uk??any ideas??
The sooner they clear off the better the free loading sweaties I can’t wait for a English parliament roll on the revolution
Does anyone now if northern Ireland will get to vote after
Winseer:
Carryfast:
Winseer:
I don’t remember getting a vote on “getting involved in foreign wars”The eastward expansion of the EU and NATO onto what was the old Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact turf is a war in the making.Luckily we do get a vote concerning the situation in that Farage has made his policy clear in regard to the issue.
As for Scotland there was never any benefit to the English in invading and then forcing Scotland into a union with us which they didn’t want.The only question is how did that situation turn into such a large proportion of Scots supporting such a union over the years.
I count the Union as beginning when Elizabeth I handed over the English throne to a Scot being both James I of England now, and James VI of Scotland at the same time. We went on to be ruled by the Stuarts for over a century, losing the absolute Monarch, and re-gaining a constitutional one in the process.
Longshanks doesn’t have much to do with it. The Conquest of Scotland is quite a different thing than the two-way street that is ‘Union with Scotland’.The worst possible result in the upcoming referendum is a near 50/50 split. An independent Scotland on a 51/49% vote would be very tenuous, and every time anything remotely goes wrong, reference will be made to the “tiny majority that voted for it.”. If it’s 49/51 the other way, then accusations of “Fiddle!” may well be made, especially if ‘some ballot boxes go missing’, in particular those of serving Scottish regiments…
It all went wrong in the case of England when we allowed the French invaders of 1066 to succeed in wrecking our rightful Anglo Saxon society and government and setting up a French run fiefdom that lasted for centuries.
As for Scotland it was the actions at Culloden and what followed which is the recent more relevant basis of the ‘Union’ between England and Scotland and which removes any credibility of that ‘Union’ at the time and since.
Winseer iam a atheist.i dont think im brave or dumb,i just dont see the proof.i wont get into a debate about the whole bigger picture or have faith argument but i dont believe that everyone has a right to there faith,what ever that is.as long as no one is hurt.also just cor the record i dont fear the end of my life as im unable to stop that from happening and if there is a afterlife i want to ask why did so many innocents in this life have to be hurt
Agree with the first para above!
Culloden seems to have involved Scottish, English and Irish soldiers on both sides…and the winning house of Hannover being German!
So, maybe the Jacobites were British rather than Scottish…they seemed to be Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh?
Certainly the 1066 view of history, that England was never invaded/conquered by anyone after the Normans, seems to be rubbish.
GasGas:
Agree with the first para above!Culloden seems to have involved Scottish, English and Irish soldiers on both sides…and the winning house of Hannover being German!
So, maybe the Jacobites were British rather than Scottish…they seemed to be Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh?
I can understand the idea that there ‘might’ ‘possibly’ have been some English forces who stood against George’s Red Coat Army being that it wasn’t the most glorious part of Britain’s history.The fact remains the basis of the Union between England and Scotland had more to do with Hanovarian force and injustice than any historical choice by the Scots to be in a union with England.The idea of wanting Britain all together in a forced Union,rather than celebrating it’s historically seperate areas with their own identities and keeping those areas seperate and independent,makes no sense.
Dipper_Dave:
Winseer:
Those who are convinced they go to nothing at death have already taken a much bigger chance than the one I’m taking if you like…
I find it either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid that it’s considered “normal” for anyone with a brain to also be an atheist, and have no future vision for their own soul’s welfare - indeed, don’t even believe they HAVE a soul. For that vast group of people, death must truly be terrifying.At risk of straying off topic massively and this discussion is better on a thread of its own that can stretch to 1000’s of pages. Atheism is not so much the belief that there is nothing after life and that death is the end it is more a choice to abstain from religion and mankinds historical use of it to justify attrocious behavour based on some misguided belief that some deity of the day agrees with it.
The default setting at birth is atheist as we haven’t yet been introduced to the worlds myths and fairy stories, ironic as its the one point we are closest to creation.
We all find out in the end anyway so between now and then just be nice to each other (to be on the safe side) and let Scotland run free.
On the religion front I agree with this 100%.
On the Scottish front I don’t think what happened 1000 years ago will have the slightest bearing on a vote in 5 months time. I’m happy with the way the government are dealing with it, by threatening them it will only force more to vote yes.
gazsa401:
Jonnydiesel:
Hi, im new to trucknetuk so hope im posting this in the right place.
I have one night out a week in scotland and was just wondering what will happen if Scotland vote for independence this year? if they do vote to leave the uk then I cant put that im booking off in the Uk??The sooner they clear off the better the free loading sweaties I can’t wait for a English parliament roll on the revolution
We’ve already seen the recent English revolution, oh hang on, that was rioting.
Winseer:
I find it either incredibly brave or incredibly stupid that it’s considered “normal” for anyone with a brain to also be an atheist,
Just found a new Sig !!!
gazsa401:
The sooner they clear off the better the free loading sweaties I can’t wait for a English parliament roll on the revolution
What are you going to revolt against Gaz ? I’m a Nationalist myself, and i’d like to revolt against anyone i think comes across as thick, monosylabic, crude, (Jeremy Kyle guest type person)!!! 
And get them ta fae oot !!!
Maybe send them to Australia like we used to do !!
nearly there:
Winseer iam a atheist.i dont think im brave or dumb,i just dont see the proof.i wont get into a debate about the whole bigger picture or have faith argument but i dont believe that everyone has a right to there faith,what ever that is.as long as no one is hurt.also just cor the record i dont fear the end of my life as im unable to stop that from happening and if there is a afterlife i want to ask why did so many innocents in this life have to be hurt
I realise that Atheism is a growing creed in it’s own right.
I’m suggesting that it’s incredibly brave to go through live convinced that one’s entire life ends at death. It’s as if one’s entire life was a waste of time before one starts, but it all comes down to the argument that we are more than just the top dog animal on planet earth, to eat or be eaten as natural causes sees fit.
Whatever one believes, death is a great equaliser. Is there anyone that’s dead that can be described as “better off than someone alive” in the world of non-faith?
I’m trying to provoke thought about life, universe, and everything - rather than get into some debate over religion or weather God exists or not.
Faith could be described as being able to “believe something without proof”. Do we believe that Mankind has been to the Moon? Do we believe that if you fall off a cliff, you die? Do we believe that around the world somewhere, someone has snuffed it because they’ve been killed by the designs of others?
I consider myself to be “open minded” and open to being “sold to” if you like. This is opposite to someone who is “concrete minded” and “cannot believe something, even if they see it happening right in front of them”. They’d tell themselves they’ve had their drink spiked, or whatever. Personally, I’ve seen too much weird stuff to not believe that there is some force a lot greater than us out there. I can’t believe that the rest of my life is decided by merely those with all the money and power, and weather they choose to elevate me or destroy me.
Personally, I reckon “Deism” is a lot more dangerous than “Atheism”. Deists will invoke the misplaced faith of others into evil acts that only benefit their own circle. Atheists won’t do this, but might be fooled by the deist into doing their bidding. Once again, I suggest that being an Atheist is incredibly brave - for being in the front line for abuse by others as it seems to be.
Deists WANT as many people as possible to be atheists. After all, anyone with any faith at all will look very dimly on sone random bod who’s effectively declared themselves “a god” in any shape or form. “If I’m not not god, then the real God would strike me down - Hah! He didn’t do it, thus proving I’m god and you’re not!” kind of argument…
Winseer:
nearly there:
Winseer iam a atheist.i dont think im brave or dumb,i just dont see the proof.i wont get into a debate about the whole bigger picture or have faith argument but i dont believe that everyone has a right to there faith,what ever that is.as long as no one is hurt.also just cor the record i dont fear the end of my life as im unable to stop that from happening and if there is a afterlife i want to ask why did so many innocents in this life have to be hurtI realise that Atheism is a growing creed in it’s own right.
I’m suggesting that it’s incredibly brave to go through live convinced that one’s entire life ends at death. It’s as if one’s entire life was a waste of time before one starts, but it all comes down to the argument that we are more than just the top dog animal on planet earth, to eat or be eaten as natural causes sees fit.Whatever one believes, death is a great equaliser. Is there anyone that’s dead that can be described as “better off than someone alive” in the world of non-faith?
I’m trying to provoke thought about life, universe, and everything - rather than get into some debate over religion or weather God exists or not.Faith could be described as being able to “believe something without proof”. Do we believe that Mankind has been to the Moon? Do we believe that if you fall off a cliff, you die? Do we believe that around the world somewhere, someone has snuffed it because they’ve been killed by the designs of others?
I consider myself to be “open minded” and open to being “sold to” if you like. This is opposite to someone who is “concrete minded” and “cannot believe something, even if they see it happening right in front of them”. They’d tell themselves they’ve had their drink spiked, or whatever. Personally, I’ve seen too much weird stuff to not believe that there is some force a lot greater than us out there. I can’t believe that the rest of my life is decided by merely those with all the money and power, and weather they choose to elevate me or destroy me.
Personally, I reckon “Deism” is a lot more dangerous than “Atheism”. Deists will invoke the misplaced faith of others into evil acts that only benefit their own circle. Atheists won’t do this, but might be fooled by the deist into doing their bidding. Once again, I suggest that being an Atheist is incredibly brave - for being in the front line for abuse by others as it seems to be.
Deists WANT as many people as possible to be atheists. After all, anyone with any faith at all will look very dimly on sone random bod who’s effectively declared themselves “a god” in any shape or form. “If I’m not not god, then the real God would strike me down - Hah! He didn’t do it, thus proving I’m god and you’re not!” kind of argument…
So, Scotland…in or out !! ■■?
Mike-C:
gazsa401:
The sooner they clear off the better the free loading sweaties I can’t wait for a English parliament roll on the revolutionWhat are you going to revolt against Gaz ? I’m a Nationalist myself, and i’d like to revolt against anyone i think comes across as thick, monosylabic, crude, (Jeremy Kyle guest type person)!!!
And get them ta fae oot !!!
Maybe send them to Australia like we used to do !!
Unfortunately I don’t watch Jeremy Kyle so you’ll have to enlighten me a little more
I too am a Nationalist I’m not European nor British I’m ENGLISH but we always get the raw deal in this so called Union
Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland all have their own forms of self government all we get is a EU ruled parish council called Westminster where Scottish MPs Welsh MPs
and Northern Ireland MPs can vote on any English issues but Westminster can’t vote on some of the so called home nations issues
All we get is that Thatcher spawn Cameron and his lap dog ■■■■■ Clegg
So Mike C that’s what I’d fight for home rule for England
The sooner this club breaks up the better
I’m republican and I agree I think Scotland Wales and England should be different countries and northern ireland should be part of the republic of Ireland
irish lorries:
I’m republican and I agree I think Scotland Wales and England should be different countries and northern ireland should be part of the republic of Ireland
And how do the people of Northern Ireland feel about this?
