Racist Comments on this forum.. am I surprised ? NO

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81

newmercman:
Yes British drivers are just as bad in some cases, just as not all Polish drivers are bad.

See, even you do that. Your sentence comes to: “SOME British drivers are bad and SOME Polish drivers are not bad”. This is that way of thinking that makes it acceptable.

If someone says “Many of Polish drivers I met are like this or like that” then it’s just opinion formed on personal experience, and we can discuss it or not. There might be explanation that can be easily found by anyone who is interested in facts, such like the fact that average Polish driver met by Trucknet member in Tesco RDC will be more likely to be in need of shower, as on average he will be several days from home and very likely spend last night in littered layby, while his British counterpart in many cases is home every day. Similarly, you will see more inexperienced Polish driver driving top class trucks in international haulage than British ones, as unlike in Poland, in UK it is very unlikely that it would be someone’s first job and they gain their experience elsewhere, while many young Polish drivers are thrown straight into deep water. Just look around and see what is average age of British driver and what is average age of Polish driver… From what I once read I remember that it is more than 20 years difference, and experience is closely related to age.

But in general every nation have it’s share of dirty people, all nations have its share of people who are bad drivers and I don’t believe that the percentages are significantly different.

The point is that being Polish is not the problem, being a soap dodger or bad driver is the problem.

Exactly. Associating this problem with only one nation (or part of Europe) is racist, and therefore not in line with forum rules. Browse the forum, it’s common that if someone is giving example of bad driving, it is commented “he must be from Poland/Bulgaria/[place here any other nation commonly considered by Britons as inferior]” and it’s widely accepted. There is usually no information to support such claim, yet hardly anyone opposes such opinions. I don’t believe this is right.

82

I agree with you, however you must understand that mods do not read every word of every thread, unless things are reported, they could go unnoticed.

One other thing to consider, you more than most will point out the similarities between dirty/bad driving Poles and their British counterparts, so it does work both ways.

I understand how you feel, I’m a bloody foreigner too, it gets up my nose when the word British or English is inserted before any abuse or whatever that I’m on the receiving end of, but I also realise that the person saying it is not doing it because I’m British, but because I have cut them up or something, where I was born is nothing to do with it.

83

newmercman:
I agree with you, however you must understand that mods do not read every word of every thread, unless things are reported, they could go unnoticed.

The things is, I reported such posts and the report was closed without any reaction from the mods.

One other thing to consider, you more than most will point out the similarities between dirty/bad driving Poles and their British counterparts, so it does work both ways.

I see nothing wrong with discussion based on facts or observations, if that what you mean. But the thing is, that there is no balance here. Things that are openly racist (i know Eastern Europe is not a race, but we all know what its meant by that) are tolerated even by mods. But for me is enough to criticize something in Britain, even something that most of the British people agree, to be called racist.

84

Orys:
place here any other nation commonly considered by Britons as inferior

The very generalisations that you complain about, you have used as part of your complaint- you have just given a stigma to a whole nation- isn’t that just what you are complaining that is so wrong on here?

Stereotypes do happen and you have posted in the very manner you are complaining about- if you can do it, why cant everyone else?

If we deleted every comment that was controversial then there would be very little left on here, the team and moderators take a lot of care and there is much discussion on what should and shouldn’t be allowed- there is no one line that will placate everyone, something will always be said that annoys a certain viewpoint. We take great care that the site does not become a forum for overtly racist views- but we do allow discussion on the use of immigrant labour - and some of the views on that will never be complimentary- there is some angst over the use of Polish(and other nationalities) drivers to fill a skill gap and ensure wages and conditions haven’t risen ( infact fallen).

Overtly racist and over the top posts will be removed if they are reported so the admin team can find them among the 100’s of posts made every day- don’t report them we don’t know they exist. Also what you find objectionable the team may find isn’t, we do have a tradition of “fair opinion” - the arbitors of what is fair opinion are the admin team- who have a long and successful history of sorting out what is hateful and what is simply ill informed

85

Rikki-UK:

Orys:
place here any other nation commonly considered by Britons as inferior

The very generalisations that you complain about, you have used as part of your complaint- you have just given a stigma to a whole nation- isn’t that just what you are complaining that is so wrong on here?

You really can’t see the difference between that something is common (“Britons commonly consider other nation as inferior” “Poles commonly think that they are choosen nation of Europe” “Britons commonly eat Fish and Chips” “Poles commonly eat Bigos” etc.) and associating certain negative features with some nations by default “He don’t wash himself, THEREFORE he must be Polish” “He can’t drive, therefore he must be Polish” “He is stupid and lazy, so he must be British”?

there is some angst over the use of Polish(and other nationalities) drivers to fill a skill gap and ensure wages and conditions haven’t risen ( infact fallen).

Amd I guess for you because people are not happy about recent changes in Europe it is perfectly OK that they will abuse that nation?

86

There are stereotypes Orys, the Irish are all tear arsing around on the wire, Sobarts/Tesco/agency drivers are all [zb]ers, Africans/Asians can’t drive, etc etc.

I am quite sure that Polish people have the Brits stereotyped as lazy moaning and aggressive.

It is what it is.

87

No don’t… looking objectively there is no difference between your generalisations and those you are complaining about- the only difference is the actual content, they are both equally incorrect. Just because the content is difficult/ a bit more blunt, doesn’t make your generalisation any more right than the ones you are complaining about… Sir you are as guilty of using unfounded/inaccurate/untrue stereotypes as the people you are moaning about, your own post shows you have an institutionised racism that condemns the whole British nation to feel superior , in your view. - you generalised, made assumptions and did not give any thought that some/many/the majority of British people may not subscribe to that view

And that sir is why your posts are no better than the ones you are complaining about.

If people making unjust/unfounded comments about Polish folks are racist- you have made generalised comments about all British people - what does that make you?

88

I have just come off the phone, to a friend who is working in Poland (totally different industry to transport) he has told me that his job is made 100 times harder because he is English working in a Polish Fabrication yard, as the local workers believe his job should be being done by a local Polish guy so wont give him the information he needs- he is over there because the job is a fabrication being built for a British company and his role is to ensure the fabrication is built to the standards the company wants- his actual words are “that the workforce goes out of its way to exclude him” from what he needs to do to do his job" sound familiar? or is that OK because he is a Brit in Poland?

89

Rikki-UK:
No don’t… looking objectively there is no difference between your generalisations and those you are complaining about- the only difference is the actual content, they are both equally incorrect.

Of course you aren’t capable to spot even so obvious difference… What I was thinking, after all you are a Brit.

^ This is what I am complaining about [I did it only for the purpose of that discussion of course]. If you can’t see it now, I give up.

/Just because the content is difficult/ a bit more blunt, doesn’t make your generalisation any more right than the ones you are complaining about…

I am not complaining about generalization. I never complained about comments that Poles eat cabbage, wear clogs, flip flops etc. Because many do and therefore such claim, even if not true for all Poles, comes from one’s observation, and therefore, as you said in your previous post, it’s based on “some truth”.

I am complaining about placing a “=” sign between “can’t drive” and “Pole”, “Stinky and unwashed” and “Pole” as there is not the slightest ground to say that.

My comment that “many Britons consider other nation inferior” is also based on “some truth”. You don’t need to look far, just read some Trucknet and you’ll see (unless you choose to not see). If I said “Britons are chauvinists ignorants” - then you would have the case. But it just happened that I didn’t said that.

It seems to me that you either really don’t understand (which is sad) or just try to bend the definitions so I can be shown in bad light as well. Sadly, you have no case. If I generalized, what I do from time to time, I always have “some truth” behind the generalisation, which, by your own words is OK. Moreover, even if I generalized, it was relevant to the discussion, or at least it was a joke, I never used generalizations to abuse anyone, and you know it.

Just once more: I am not complaining about generalisation, I am complaining about that open abuse of one’s nation just for the sake of abuse is common here and it is tolerated by the moderation team.

P.S. I hardly see how adventures of your friend in Poland are relevant to the matter in question. If you ask if it sounds familiar - well, yes, I heard about many cases of such discrimination of Poles here in UK - obviously every nation has it’s share of envious, malignant people. I never claimed Poland is different, so if you aimed here, you missed.

Mind you, though, that you know only one side of the story, there might be many other factors we don’t know. It is not common among Britons for example to speak Polish, so I can assume with a big chance of being right that your friend expect them to speak English in their own country… That might create some tensions… Anyway, it is not relevant and I have no idea why you brought it up.

90

You don’t make generalisations just for this thread though do you orifice?

You love slating and slagging off the Brits. I’ve seen you do it time and time again on here. Your response “ahh but I only joke”. So that makes it ok then? I have read alot of your posts that I find racist and offensive. Do I come here and cry about them? No I just ignore your posts.

nobody has said it yet, so I will. The door is over there —> if you don’t like it then ■■■■ off. And if you really hate Britain as much then why don’t you ■■■■ off from here as well.

91

Anyway how was your holiday rikki did you go anywhere nice?. :slight_smile:

92

daleyboy:
You don’t make generalisations just for this thread though do you orifice?

You love slating and slagging off the Brits.

Show me just one example when I told something like the things I am complaining about. You’ve “seen me do it time and time again on here” I am sure it will be really easy to find one example where I say “all Britons are stupid” “If he can’t drive, he must be British” “If someone stinks, I know right away that he is British because they never wash” or similar.

You won’t find anything like that. Yes, I do criticize something, after all I live here 8 years and I have my observations. The problem is everything I dare to say that something British is not the best in the world, I am called racist.

nobody has said it yet, so I will. The door is over there —>

Oh, you really haven’t seen how many times I was told that? Don’t be so proud of your bravery, you are not first, and not even a tenth. I might just leave trucknet for good, but it won’t be your personal achievent, I am sorry.

if you don’t like it then [zb] off. And if you really hate Britain as much then why don’t you [zb] off from here as well.

Why do you think I hate Britain? I like it very much. I spend half of my adult life here, and I am very happy. Yes, some things here could be better, and some are better even in Poland. But the bottom line is that I like Britain despite its flaws and I like British folks despite that not everyone are friendly and open minded - but that is true for every nation.

If you think that I hate Britain because I dare to speak openly about things that could be better here, you are wrong. I speak openly about things I don’t like in Poland as well, and still nobody thinks I hate Poland.

93

Orys… you are either blind, or for some reason deliberately missing the point you do exactly the same as you are complaining off… no one has put words in your mouth or twisted what you said- you posted in exactly the terms against Britains as you complained about being posted being posted against Poles - the depth of the injustice is immaterial, You made the same type of comment you have spent many words here complaining against-Sorry Orys, but this time you don’t have a leg to stand on, If everyone here is bigoted simply on the basis of the comments of a few, then I have to say the one comment shows to me you are bigoted, but unlike yourself I wont say every Polish person using this forum is, only you, because only you made the comment.

I seriously think you need to step back a bit and reread what you have actually written - because there are some possibly xenophobic views going on this forum and your could be construed as one of them

Gentle hint fella… sometimes you have to climb down from your high horse and accept you got it wrong ( I have to do it a lot)- in this case you shot yourself well and truly in your own foot

94

Karl86:
Anyway how was your holiday rikki did you go anywhere nice?. :slight_smile:

the Club… can you tell?

95

You’ve needed it its fine…

96

And there was me trying to be diplomatic. :laughing:

97

Rikki-UK:
Orys… you are either blind, or for some reason deliberately missing the point you do exactly the same as you are complaining off… no one has put words in your mouth or twisted what you said- you posted in exactly the terms against Britains as you complained about being posted being posted against Poles - the depth of the injustice is immaterial, You made the same type of comment you have spent many words here complaining against-Sorry Orys, but this time you don’t have a leg to stand on, If everyone here is bigoted simply on the basis of the comments of a few, then I have to say the one comment shows to me you are bigoted, but unlike yourself I wont say every Polish person using this forum is, only you, because only you made the comment.

I seriously think you need to step back a bit and reread what you have actually written - because there are some possibly xenophobic views going on this forum and your could be construed as one of them

Gentle hint fella… sometimes you have to climb down from your high horse and accept you got it wrong ( I have to do it a lot)- in this case you shot yourself well and truly in your own foot

:unamused: Ok. Once again:

I could tell you exactly the same. The only difference is that I have valid claim, and you just try to turn the thing upside down, accusing me of something that you would not be able to prove. I never posted things I am complaining about, nor I never made general exclusive statements based on the few comments. I generalized, yes, but there is nothing wrong with that, and I never complained about generalization. To give you another example: I am the one who makes claims like “British cars usually have steering wheels on the right” but I am opposing claims like “if the car has steering wheels on the right, it has to be British”. I think even you have to agree that while first statement is true, or at least there are some genuine reasons to assume it is, second is nowhere near the truth. And this is the semantic difference between the things you accusing me of and the ones I am complaining about.

In other words I say “there is many racist comments on this forum, and from what I can see moderators tolerate them”. You trying to show me as someone who says “EVERYONE ON TRUCKNET IS RACIST” and you then try to prove that it is me who is racist. You fail on both of these attempts and if anyone is making fool of himself, it’s you. I suppose you just went too far to “climb down from your high horse and accept you got it wrong”, to use your own words. It’s always easier to say “I have to do it a lot” than actually to do it.

So, to finish it once for all: difference does not lies in “depth of injustice”. It is all about “someone’s observations being perhaps not representative” vs “deliberately abusing other nations by associating them with all things bad by default”. I don’t have, and never had any problems with the first one, I wrote 1000s words discussing “depth of injustice” with Harry Monk, Switchlogic and others. I am though very concerned about the latter. You simply ignored my points, choosing to attack me personally instead.

If you really believed that you are right, you would ignore that discussion and enjoy your holidays, yet you feel you have to prove your point (and you fail to do it, as you simply repeat the same untrue accusation and pretend that you don’t understand what I am about (or you really don’t understand, which makes further discussion even more futile)). I leave you to it, I don’t have holidays, but still I don’t think that discussion is worth wasting any more time.

98

newmercman:
And there was me trying to be diplomatic. :laughing:

I was just trying to lighten the mood :slight_smile:.

99

Karl86:

newmercman:
And there was me trying to be diplomatic. :laughing:

I was just trying to lighten the mood :slight_smile:.

And I was banging my head against a wall :wink:

100

Jeez orys you must be the most bullet headed, myopic prat I’ve ever encountered. Your posts in short say - I’m right your wrong. You never concede a point do you. You mentioned you might leave truck net. I really hope that’s true.