Nolan's recruitment drive

[vascoingles]

welshboyinspain:
the two main reasons for leaving the uk were losing my job to a double man team of poles who earned less between them than i did and my local christian school turning into and islamic school but those of you left in the uk put up with being born christian british but being the minority in your own country

Look like perfectly good reasons to me, everyone has to make their own decisions in life and he made his

Lucy:
What I really deeply resent is the amount of generalisation that goes on without any real reference to the facts. I mean, what is “British” anyway? We’re a hybrid nation, always have been. Most of those who get irate about “foreigners” come from Viking, Norman or Breton stock. Or perhaps Roman or Saxon.

Quite true actually my family arrived on the English shores with a family tree going back to 1052 which makes us more English than most.

Lucy:
As for the low-rate driving jobs, they’ve always been there, and once upon a time provided a foot in the door for newbies with shiny new licences. I worked for every cowboy in the West while I was “serving” out my two years, but you’ve only got to read what’s being posted in the Newbies Forum on here to know that today’s new passes won’t do that, they insist on the same rates as drivers with experience from day one, or go on agency and complain when they are bottom of the list or asked to work messy hours. So again, someone’s got to do it. Someone always did. So the Poles etc. fill the gap because others won’t. It’s just greed.

Greed on the part of employers.
Europe opened the doors to mass migration within Europe and forced wages down to a ridiculous point, not just in the UK but all over Europe here in Spain there are companies with 200 vehicles and not a Spanish driver amongst them whilst the locals have driven out of their jobs so that they can be replaced by the cheaplabour.

switchlogic:
There just seems to be a lot of double standards going on. Why should you be able to move to Spain yet it’s wrong for an Eastern European to move to Ireland? Many of them do have houses, family, even businesses.

No double standards Welshboy will be earning the same money as the locals not going in and doing the job for half the money

Simon_1982:
so you can speak Spanish or you know a few words? What I know about British expats is they can hardly speak a few words, usually isolated and moaning and commenting articles on the daily mail site.
If I settled in Spain I’d look for a Spanish version of the trucker’s forum .
It is exactly the same as johnny foreigner form Eastern Europe in the UK, you are johnny foreigner from the UK in Spain.
Good luck matey, pay your taxes regulary in Spain and enjoy your life there and I know it must be hard if you’re aware the Spanish have had enough of you (although you pay taxes as Poles do in the UK)

Regards,
Simon

typical gormless comment from the ill informed

James Spanish is fluent as is mine both spoken and written I suppose you get your ideas from what others tell you rather than finding out for yourself ?
The Spanish have had enough of the lazy sods who come down thinking they own the place not those who come down here and integrate.

[vascoingles]

browncow2:
Hey,WBIS-don’t rise to it,mate.There will always be free movement of labour.You’ve done the best move for you and your family.You wouldn’t get a job in Spain if you didn’t speak the lingo(and not just cerveza and gracias either).What about Vas? he’s a manager or is that not allowed??.I for one appreciate your input and knowledge.BTW where is Vas?

he has arrived

[mike-c]

Vascoingles:

welshboyinspain:
the two main reasons for leaving the uk were losing my job to a double man team of poles who earned less between them than i did and my local christian school turning into and islamic school but those of you left in the uk put up with being born christian british but being the minority in your own country

Look like perfectly good reasons to me, everyone has to make their own decisions in life and he made his

Yeah , if you believe that two poles work for 5 or 600 pound a week between them and that he goes to church every week, sure they’re great reasons !! Myself i reckon its a load of crap, but maybe thats just the cynical side of me.

Vascoingles:

Lucy:
What I really deeply resent is the amount of generalisation that goes on without any real reference to the facts. I mean, what is “British” anyway? We’re a hybrid nation, always have been. Most of those who get irate about “foreigners” come from Viking, Norman or Breton stock. Or perhaps Roman or Saxon.

Quite true actually my family arrived on the English shores with a family tree going back to 1052 which makes us more English than most.

Whats true? The English are more resentful of ‘foreigners’ or the ‘British’ ?

Vascoingles:

Lucy:
As for the low-rate driving jobs, they’ve always been there, and once upon a time provided a foot in the door for newbies with shiny new licences. I worked for every cowboy in the West while I was “serving” out my two years, but you’ve only got to read what’s being posted in the Newbies Forum on here to know that today’s new passes won’t do that, they insist on the same rates as drivers with experience from day one, or go on agency and complain when they are bottom of the list or asked to work messy hours. So again, someone’s got to do it. Someone always did. So the Poles etc. fill the gap because others won’t. It’s just greed.

Vascoingles:
Greed on the part of employers.
Europe opened the doors to mass migration within Europe and forced wages down to a ridiculous point, not just in the UK but all over Europe here in Spain there are companies with 200 vehicles and not a Spanish driver amongst them whilst the locals have driven out of their jobs so that they can be replaced by the cheaplabour.

They’ll be the christian ex pat brits !!!

Vascoingles:

switchlogic:
There just seems to be a lot of double standards going on. Why should you be able to move to Spain yet it’s wrong for an Eastern European to move to Ireland? Many of them do have houses, family, even businesses.

No double standards Welshboy will be earning the same money as the locals not going in and doing the job for half the money

Hang on you said the locals where drive out of their jobs by cheap labour?!!

Vascoingles:

Simon_1982:
so you can speak Spanish or you know a few words? What I know about British expats is they can hardly speak a few words, usually isolated and moaning and commenting articles on the daily mail site.
If I settled in Spain I’d look for a Spanish version of the trucker’s forum .
It is exactly the same as johnny foreigner form Eastern Europe in the UK, you are johnny foreigner from the UK in Spain.
Good luck matey, pay your taxes regulary in Spain and enjoy your life there and I know it must be hard if you’re aware the Spanish have had enough of you (although you pay taxes as Poles do in the UK)
Regards,
Simon

typical gormless comment from the ill informed

He doesn’t have the monopoloy on it you know !! Lots of people talk crap !!

Vascoingles:
James Spanish is fluent as is mine both spoken and written I suppose you get your ideas from what others tell you rather than finding out for yourself ?
The Spanish have had enough of the lazy sods who come down thinking they own the place not those who come down here and integrate.

They’ll have no problems with the Poles then, most seem hard working and friendly, unlike the ‘brits’ who are all bigots !!!

[orys]

Mike-C:
Yeah , if you believe that two poles work for 5 or 600 pound a week between them and that he goes to church every week, sure they’re great reasons !! Myself i reckon its a load of crap, but maybe thats just the cynical side of me.

Actually I DO know the companies where drivers are earning as crap money as that, but the Scots are working there along the Poles and everyone is paid the same…

[gogzy]

Andydisco:

huge1:
I’m with you on that one gogzy. I’m welsh, always have been always will be. Never british

i’m with gogzy on this one aswell

i might sound like a daft brummie if you speak to me but I was born in glasgow and am proud of my scottish roots even tho my folks moved round the uk with my dads job before he settled in birmingham

im scots with norwegien roots through my grans side of the family.

[mike-c]

orys:

Mike-C:
Yeah , if you believe that two poles work for 5 or 600 pound a week between them and that he goes to church every week, sure they’re great reasons !! Myself i reckon its a load of crap, but maybe thats just the cynical side of me.

Actually I DO know the companies where drivers are earning as crap money as that, but the Scots are working there along the Poles and everyone is paid the same…

orys, we’re not talking about who earns minimum wage.
Welshboyin spain reckons he gave his job up because two poles came and done it for less. Someone else has confirmed that the max for the company was £575 for 7 days. Do the maths.

[mike-c]

gogzy:

Andydisco:

huge1:
I’m with you on that one gogzy. I’m welsh, always have been always will be. Never british

i’m with gogzy on this one aswell

i might sound like a daft brummie if you speak to me but I was born in glasgow and am proud of my scottish roots even tho my folks moved round the uk with my dads job before he settled in birmingham

im scots with norwegien roots through my grans side of the family.

So you’re part Scottish then?

[gogzy]

Mike-C:

gogzy:

Andydisco:

huge1:
I’m with you on that one gogzy. I’m welsh, always have been always will be. Never british

i’m with gogzy on this one aswell

i might sound like a daft brummie if you speak to me but I was born in glasgow and am proud of my scottish roots even tho my folks moved round the uk with my dads job before he settled in birmingham

im scots with norwegien roots through my grans side of the family.

So you’re part Scottish then?

technically, but i was born and bred in scotland and so was my mum and dad, it was my grans gran or great gran who moved over here from norway…cant remember because it was a long time ago i was told this and i have the memory of a goldfish

[orys]

Mike-C:
orys, we’re not talking about who earns minimum wage.
Welshboyin spain reckons he gave his job up because two poles came and done it for less. Someone else has confirmed that the max for the company was £575 for 7 days. Do the maths.

So it’s well below minimum wage. They are stupid to work for this and welshboyspain failed to do not report the employer who’s breaking the law.

Or maybe he could not report, because he actually did not knew how much they earn and this was only his assumption?

Just slightly on the side: I had an interview once. There was me and some Scottish guy who just passed class 2. I left the room and he entered and I heard “I will work for 50p less per hour than this other guy”.

So it’s not only the Eastern European thing…

[starfighter]

OK hypothetical situation, an employer on General Haulage wants a tramper, five days a week with four nights out. Most English drivers would say a take home of £500+night out money + overtime rate if you run back on a saturday would be a reasonable wage. A polish driver doing the same in Poland would expect to earn take home of £300 inc allowances. He moves to England because he hears the money is good. He goes to the employer for an interview and is told, we’ll pay you £400+ allowances take home. He thinks it’s his birthday and takes the job, tells his mates. The Poles don’t know the going rate is £500+, the employer is taking the ■■■■ out of them and his own workforce in the process. And if a Pole decided to visit a drivers forum to find the going rate all he would see is ■■■■■■■■ and various rants about “foreigners taking our jobs by working for nothing”. I seriously doubt that the majority of them go to employers and say “I’ll work for £100 a week less than your drivers”, I’ve yet to meet a Polish driver without a sense of self respect. Another good trick the employers have is saying “and what salary are you expecting for this job?” again how would a newly arrived person know the going rate, and remember the deal he is offered still looks very good to him.

And before anyone starts arguing with the figures I just made them up as a way of illustration.

[orys]

tofer:
OK hypothetical situation, an employer on General Haulage wants a tramper, five days a week with four nights out. Most English drivers would say a take home of £500+night out money + overtime rate if you run back on a saturday would be a reasonable wage. A polish driver doing the same in Poland would expect to earn take home of £300 inc allowances. He moves to England because he hears the money is good. He goes to the employer for an interview and is told, we’ll pay you £400+ allowances take home. He thinks it’s his birthday and takes the job, tells his mates. The Poles don’t know the going rate is £500+, the employer is taking the ■■■■ out of them and his own workforce in the process. And if a Pole decided to visit a drivers forum to find the going rate all he would see is [zb] and various rants about “foreigners taking our jobs by working for nothing”. I seriously doubt that the majority of them go to employers and say “I’ll work for £100 a week less than your drivers”, I’ve yet to meet a Polish driver without a sense of self respect. Another good trick the employers have is saying “and what salary are you expecting for this job?” again how would a newly arrived person know the going rate, and remember the deal he is offered still looks very good to him.

And before anyone starts arguing with the figures I just made them up as a way of illustration.

Yes, you are right. But from the other hand:
I came here and I did my homework. If someone goes to the interview without doing a research before of “how much the driver can ask for” he is simply stupid.

When I went for a first interview I was prepared to answer what I expect, but I was ready to accept slightly less, but not because I am Polish, but simply because I have to compensate to my employer my poor (at this time) language skills and lack of local knowledge.

Therefore even if I was ready to accept less, I think I was still fair, as my rate would be in good proportion to what the employer will get in reward. Soon after I improved my English and get used to the local area I would not accept any less than the normal rate.

Off course by “less” I don’t mean 50% or 25% less, maybe 10%… I think it would not be much different from what British inexperienced driver would get (but, as I learned from your topic, they expect the same rate as the other from day one).

The problem with foreign workforce is that they don’t speak English, often they don’t speak even basic English. Therefore the only place where they are checking how much driver earns is the polish internet places like this one: www.emito.net. The amount of fairly tales and ■■■■■■■■ you can find there is appaling. I am trying to become a mythbuster and I have some column in one Polish mag when I try to put straight some driving myths (not only about HGV off course) but it’s like drop of the common sense in the sea of ■■■■■■■■… :S

[vascoingles]

If there is anyone who has profited more from free movement within the EU it is myself having worked and lived in Germany and Holland before coming to Spain and to be compleltely honset I have nothing against it providing that those who move also work for the same rates as the locals, unfortunately lately this tends not to be the case as not only in the UK but also here in Spain drivers have been recruited from the Eastern European countries (here in Spain also from South America) and have been taken advantage of and are working for some ridiculous rates. I have actually had drivers coming in to my office asking for work saying that they will work for 1000-1200 euros a month all in whereas one of my local paid drivers will take home 2200-3000 euros a month depending on what they do.
Many companies especially here in Spain have abused this and it is not unusual to find large companies with no Spanish drivers at all, the biggest problem I see is that then these companies do not use the saving in wages to increase their profit margins they use it to go and take contracts off of the competition by undercutting the going rate something which I personally consider to be stupid as they then base their low rates on high volume activity which recently has dropped off due to the crisis and many of these companies are now going broke as they cannot make any money even using this cheap labour.
There needs to be a EU wide law that makes it illegal to employ these migrant drivers for less than the local going rate and also to outlaw so called PO Box companies which are often set up in low wage countries such as Poland or Portugal just to name two so as to be able to employ people at low cost.
When Welshboy says he has experience of 2 eastern europeans doing the job for the same price as he would have to do it then I can believe him because I have had drivers in here offering me the same.

[orys]

Vascoingles:
There needs to be a EU wide law that makes it illegal to employ these migrant drivers for less than the local going rate

How you will solve problem of the locals willing to work for below local going rate? I gave you an example of the Scot who was willing to work for less than me… And the job was paid @7,50, what was my minimum at this time…

[vascoingles]

orys:

Vascoingles:
There needs to be a EU wide law that makes it illegal to employ these migrant drivers for less than the local going rate

How you will solve problem of the locals willing to work for below local going rate? I gave you an example of the Scot who was willing to work for less than me… And the job was paid @7,50, what was my minimum at this time…

There should be minimum going rates enforcable by law with stiff fines for undercutting.
Europe wants road safety well it comes at a price

[orys]

Vascoingles:
There should be minimum going rates enforcable by law with stiff fines for undercutting.
Europe wants road safety well it comes at a price

Come on, it has nothing to do about road safety - otherwise the Romanians would have much more accidents than, say, Swiss drivers. And it’s not true.

As for “minimum going rates enforcable” - this limites the competition and stop people from trying hard.

Believe me, I used to live in place where economy was hand-steered by the goverment and it’s not good idea.

I think when the new EU countries will keep up with the west (and it will be faster when you let them earn some money in the west) the problem will disapear faster. Somehow there is no issue of Britons undercutting German haulage market or vice versa - that’s becouse the earnings in both countries are similar, so your wage itself is not enaugh to make you relocating. If you will try to regulate it, you will only ■■■■ up the economy.

[44_tonne_ton]

Lucy:
. I mean, what is “British” anyway?

Someone born in Britain. It’s not hard to grasp.

I also resent people telling me how the foreigners are doing “us” out of a job.

They are and because there’s so ■■■■■■ many of them they’re slaughtering the rates on whatever work you can get. It might not be your experience but it’s certainly mine and I’m in the south-east.

Take the harvesting/agricultural labouring work.

Let’s not. Let’s talk about what’s happening in trucking. Now. It’s what we all do here.

As for the low-rate driving jobs, they’ve always been there, and once upon a time provided a foot in the door for newbies with shiny new licences.

I feel for newbies now. A mate of mine passed his test 3-4 years ago and asked if I could help him get a start. I rang one of my old firms where they would give you a chance. Always looking for a driver or two. Not now. The place is hoaching with immigrants and he not only didn’t have any room for my mate but doubted he ever would as he was using them to bring in new recruits when needed. He was frank with me as we have a good relationship. They were cheaper and he had a core of them living in a caravan in the yard who could cover anything that might come up at short notice.

When there’s 9 drivers to cover 10 jobs then a driver has a slight advantage. Wages might head in the right direction for drivers depending on where you are in the country , some parts have always done better than others.

When there’s 10 drivers to cover 9 jobs then it goes the other way. It’s market forces.

On R4 last week they stated that an estimated 1.5 million Poles (just Poles mind you not counting all the others)came into this country. That has created a glut in the job market creating the situation whereby my rates have dropped over the last 5-6 years and I can’t rely on getting my 5 days a week now. The question for all you who are sticking up for this mass influx is the same as I asked Conor.
Why am I supposed to be happy about that?

Just for the record a lot of them are of course good lads who under different circumstances I’d be happy to work with and I personally regret the way I feel about this situation that’s not of their making. It’s just greed. On the part of the business community that is. You can call me all the names you like but I’ve had enough of the British worker getting ■■■■ on and won’t be silent on this issue.

[newmercman]

I normally think that any minimum, when it comes to wages or rates, will also create a maximum, but in this case there should be.

All us ‘Europeans’ are supposedly equal & yet our ‘Eastern Europeans’ are allowed to come to this country & either be exploited by working for less money than the locals or to carve the job up for everyone by doing it cheaper, this is in nobody’s interest, short term it causes ill feeling & lowers wages in the whole area, long term it allows firms to undercut the competition by lowering their rates as they lower their wages & it robs the government of PAYE payments, the less we earn the less they tax us so I’m surprised they haven’t cottoned on to that yet

As has been said they do undercut the locals, not all of them, but a lot do, anyone who doesn’t realise this is walking around with their eyes shut, add this to the fact that there aren’t a lot of jobs around now & that some drivers will have no work because there is no work, not because they’re lazy (there are a few left) & you can understand the resentment. Then you have the ‘racist’ debate about them being in ‘our’ country, WTF is wrong with that? They are in OUR bloody country, too many of them don’t speak the language or try to integrate at all, they’re the one’s who get up our noses, not just in lorry driving, but in the country in general, we can’t complain because that’s racist, no it ain’t, I couldn’t give a toss whether you’re black, white or whatever, I don’t care who your god is, you want to live in my country then you accept the way we do things, do not try to turn my country into your country, I don’t care what you do or how you choose to live your life & you have no right to care about me, what you should be caring about is learning our language.

Now I live & work in another country, luckily it’s an English speaking country (well sort of ) I have no language barrier, but they do things differently to us though, now I expect to earn the same as the locals, I won’t work harder etc etc, there are quite a few Brits over there, we have no problems, but the Russians & East Indians are not popular, that’s because they are like the Eastern Europeans over here, they carve the job up & they don’t speak the language, it’s the same no matter where you go, so all that talk of racism is bollox, it’s the same wherever you go.

[vascoingles]

orys:
As for “minimum going rates enforcable” - this limites the competition and stop people from trying hard.

Is that not exactly what constantly changing and more restrictive tachgraph legislation has been doing over the past few years ?
Is that not exactly what the 48 hour working week is supposed to do ?

stopping you from working hard and earning a bit more

[paul-h]

This is what [zb] me off, everyone is either a Scot, Welsh, Yorkshireman(woman) but we all live in the United kingdom. For [zb] sake be proud of the country you live in. I AM.

[gogzy]

Paul-H:
This is what [zb] me off, everyone is either a Scot, Welsh, Yorkshireman(woman) but we all live in the United kingdom. For [zb] sake be proud of the country you live in. I AM.

i am proud of the coutry i live in, i live in scotland,