simcor:
Agency drivers who work at different places will require business insurance. Most do not bother but will then complain if involved in an accident and the Insurance refuses to pay out.
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
In that scenario I doubt very much that the insurance company employ fashion police to check if you were wearing a uniform and you’d have to be as dumb as a bag of rocks to not simply say “I was just out for a drive on my day off”.
Insurance companies do have investigation teams that will Investigate everything to try and avoid a pay out. And most people are so dumb all the proof needed is available online. That’s my point.
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
In a lot of Insurance companies, the department that investigates and disputes claims is bigger than the one that pays them!!
simcor:
Insurance companies do have investigation teams that will Investigate everything to try and avoid a pay out. And most people are so dumb all the proof needed is available online. That’s my point.
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
Don’t make the mistake of believing all the bullcrap you hear mate. Of course it suits the insurance companies for people to believe that they have crack teams on high alert because that gets repeated and believed. Of course a certain number of crash for cash incidents or things that sound alarm bells will be placed in the incredibly long list of things to look at. But I can assure you that if our erstwhile hero of this piece scuffs someone else’s car in Worksop while he lives in Grantham the Direct Line SWAT team WILL NOT be descending mob handed.
dozy:
I think some are putting 2+2 = 5 , it’s mileage allowance for travelling too/ from cpc course , I only highlighted business as thats that’s all I could find
Anyway it’s seems it’s what company will pay , in this case 25 ppm , so £10 for 40 mile r/trip , about cover it I’d guess , ta again
Check your insurance policy. It will most likely state travelling to and from a permanent place of work. It does not cover you to travel to other sites of the business or for travelling to courses for example most likely. You have been told but yet argue with people. Unless your insurance specifically covers you for something then you are likely not covered for it.
People also think a fully comp policy means you can drive other cars 3rd party. It used to be the case that the majority of FC policies did but now lots don’t. Unless it specifically states you are covered to drive other cars then you are not covered to do so.
Why do you think big companies provide hire cars and or minibuses for such things. As they know it is unlikely to be covered on your insurance and they have a duty of care to not expect and allow you to break the law.
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
Attending a CPC course is purely social purposes. It is your personal responsibility as a driver to do these courses, they are not a requirement of your employer, any help, assistance or allowances from your employer is just a bonus
Incorrect if your employer pays for and provides the course and pays you then it is other work and should be treated as such. So if the employer provides a pool car then again you should use it. I did one at another depot and they provided vehicles for us to use so we didn’t use our own cars for that exact reason of insurance not covering is to use our own cars.
simcor:
Insurance companies do have investigation teams that will Investigate everything to try and avoid a pay out. And most people are so dumb all the proof needed is available online. That’s my point.
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
Don’t make the mistake of believing all the bullcrap you hear mate. Of course it suits the insurance companies for people to believe that they have crack teams on high alert because that gets repeated and believed. Of course a certain number of crash for cash incidents or things that sound alarm bells will be placed in the incredibly long list of things to look at. But I can assure you that if our erstwhile hero of this piece scuffs someone else’s car in Worksop while he lives in Grantham the Direct Line SWAT team WILL NOT be descending mob handed.
Believe what you like buddy I know people who work for insurance companies and I know they have investigation teams whose job it is to find out anything they can to avoid paying out.
^^^ irrespective of whether your employer pays for and arranges the course, if you are not being paid to attend then it can legally be booked as break , therefore it stands to reason that it is not work and therefore could be classed as social. Absolute ■■■■■■■■ of course, but thems the rules.
Edit to add; you answered my post before I responded to you next one. Confused? I am
simcor:
Believe what you like buddy I know people who work for insurance companies and I know they have investigation teams whose job it is to find out anything they can to avoid paying out.
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
Yeah and I know people who work for the BBC,and the ones that aren’t paedophiles would have you believe that those tv licence detector vans are packed with military grade equipment that tells them that Mrs Scoggins at number 75 is illegally watching Eastenders.
simcor:
Believe what you like buddy I know people who work for insurance companies and I know they have investigation teams whose job it is to find out anything they can to avoid paying out.
Sent from my CPH2173 using Tapatalk
Yeah and I know people who work for the BBC,and the ones that aren’t paedophiles would have you believe that those tv licence detector vans are packed with military grade equipment that tells them that Mrs Scoggins at number 75 is illegally watching Eastenders.
Like I say believe what you like. I do know they have fraud teams that investigate accidents, and we all know if they can find a way out of paying a claim they certainly will.
Honestly mate, I don’t doubt that they will try a wriggle out of paying out on a claim, I’m not disputing that at all. What I’m saying is let’s not get carried away here, an agency driver travelling to a different place to his normal base is not even going to register on their radar.
We can all make statements like: ‘If you do 50 miles more than your declared mileage, you have a 50% chance of a custodial sentence.’ It doesn’t mean it is true.
As usual, there is a lot of misinformation on this thread.
If an employee is sent on a course, then travel between their normal base (which may be their home) and the course site is business travel. As far as HMRC is concerned, any expenses paid for mileage will not be taxed unless they exceed the published limits. Employers are free to pay as much or as little as they like (and which is acceptable to the employee). There is no one else to claim a mileage allowance from.
This will be considered as business use by insurance companies and the employer should require proof that business use is covered. If they don’t check, and the employee is willing to take the risk, that is up to them, but they should bear in mind the possibility of a major collision involving injury to themselves or others and the consequences to them if their insurance company refuses to pay out. Adding business use does not add much to a private car insurance premium.
On the subject of fraud teams without sounding like Michael Caine and not many people know that , the DWP have the authority to snoop around bank and savings accounts if they suspect benefit fraud normally from a tip off from the neighbours.
They can now arrest people without a police officer being present.
They spend a lot of time looking at social media for those ubiquitous holiday snaps of someone who can’t work because of the dodgy back claim and see photos of them water skiing in Barbados.
Covert operatives use the latest technology to gather evidence for a successful prosecution for fraud, and the DWP are thinking of using AI to combat it.
On a documentary about insurance claims, the call operator used a lie detector on the phone call that could detect if a customer was telling the truth or not, and I never knew that they could obtain data from a photo by reversing the image as many got caught out with the date and time not corresponding to their insurance claim.
When we lie our voice pattern changes, in police interviews at the station , they are trained to look for signs of lying by our body language.
I think I’ll be fine , but we did once have a car nsurance claim rejected , car was wrote off , taken away & then I received a call to collect car , after a lot of phone calls claim was rejected due to the log book being in daughters name , but I’d insured me as main driver , daughter as named driver ( long time ago , but that’s how I remember it ) , went through financial ombudsman but ended us with I think it was £40 for inconvenience , lost about £2,000 on that car & ears haven’t stopped ringing from mrs shouting at me , I told you so
So I’m taking my car , if it all goes pear shaped at least it’s my car , not mrs baby getting impounded , I’d never hear the end of it , she still will not let me insure her car as she doesn’t trust me to do it properly
Ta all
Its pretty simple…they investigate and might not* pay out on big claims; but don’t investigate small claims or if you did the journey and didn’t crash and didn’t claim at all.
Its actually not as simple as not paying out. The FCA rules are, that they have to work out the cost the premium would have been with the right cover, then pay out pro-rata that proportion. And since they are still the insurer, there is no danger of an IN10.
The only problem is, there is that slim 1 in a 10 million chance of being involved in a freak accident on the road; and a good chance that if you did have such an accident, you’ll be in hospital and unable to tamper/cover up evidence etc, so its that eventuality you need to be aware of.
simcor:
Insurance companies do have investigation teams that will Investigate everything to try and avoid a pay out. And most people are so dumb all the proof needed is available online. That’s my point.
Couldn’t agree more, and that’s a very topical issue this week. I don’t think you need to register with the magazine provider to read this, even if you did need to, it would be worth it to read this tail of two very-short sighted TMs who have now lost a source of income commercialmotor.com/complia … -o-licence
stu675:
Attending a CPC course is purely social purposes. It is your personal responsibility as a driver to do these courses, they are not a requirement of your employer, any help, assistance or allowances from your employer is just a bonus
Unless you are being paid to attend (yes, there’s more than a few who get this) in which case it is “other work” and counts towards your WTD/RTD as well as impacting on your EU Drivers Hours (561/2006) regs rest requirement.
Noremac:
^^^I refer Messrs Zac_A and simcor to my earlier post.
I honestly don’t know if an IN10 is the result if an insurance company finds a premium paid to be inadequate. What is your source on that one? Or is it scaremongering again?
I don’t think giving sensible advice on avoiding hassles with insurance companies is at all scaremongering, and encouraging a vocational driver to take an unnecessary risk for the sake of a few tens of pounds seems to me irresponsible. I for one wouldn’t do that publicly.
Speaking only for myself, my source of info was one of my former drivers, who thought he could earn some cash-in-hand delivering pizzas for his local shop using his own car. He got pulled by Plod for having a light out, Plod saw the insulated bag of pizzas, matey-boy didn’t have the sense to know he wasn’t allowed to do what he was doing, and so was blasé when questioned by Plod.
Bosh! IN10 on his licence.
Whereas most companies would have dropped him for insurance purposes, this company “valued him” (for all the wrong reasons), so they let it go. He was by far the highest risk driver in the company every single month when I analyzed the downloads, eventually it became necessary to have a serious private conversation with him.
He spat the dummy and walked out, as had been his habit in other jobs he’d had. This time his missus had had enough of his unreliable income stream, so she black-bagged him and went straight to the solicitors. Fortunately for him this was during summer time, because he spent the next few weeks living out of his car.
So yeah, having the right insurance matters I reckon.
stu675:
Attending a CPC course is purely social purposes. It is your personal responsibility as a driver to do these courses, they are not a requirement of your employer, any help, assistance or allowances from your employer is just a bonus
Unless you are being paid to attend (yes, there’s more than a few who get this) in which case it is “other work” and counts towards your WTD/RTD as well as impacting on your EU Drivers Hours (561/2006) regs rest requirement.
Yes agreed, I admit the possibility is so remote from my situation that I discounted it
Zac_A:
I don’t think giving sensible advice on avoiding hassles with insurance companies is at all scaremongering, and encouraging a vocational driver to take an unnecessary risk for the sake of a few tens of pounds seems to me irresponsible. I for one wouldn’t do that publicly.
Speaking only for myself, my source of info was one of my former drivers, who thought he could earn some cash-in-hand delivering pizzas for his local shop using his own car. He got pulled by Plod for having a light out, Plod saw the insulated bag of pizzas, matey-boy didn’t have the sense to know he wasn’t allowed to do what he was doing, and so was blasé when questioned by Plod.
Bosh! IN10 on his licence.
Whereas most companies would have dropped him for insurance purposes, this company “valued him” (for all the wrong reasons), so they let it go. He was by far the highest risk driver in the company every single month when I analyzed the downloads, eventually it became necessary to have a serious private conversation with him.
He spat the dummy and walked out, as had been his habit in other jobs he’d had. This time his missus had had enough of his unreliable income stream, so she black-bagged him and went straight to the solicitors. Fortunately for him this was during summer time, because he spent the next few weeks living out of his car.
So yeah, having the right insurance matters I reckon.
Thanks for the anecdote. I appreciate that this could happen if pulled by the police and there is a ‘smoking gun’ as they say state side. Deliving pizzas seems almost like commercial driving as opposed to business use, so I don’t know what parallels you are drawing.
There are many differences between this story and what dozy proposed doing. Travelling from home to a place you are working at 20 miles away and staying there all day I think could easily fall into the category of commuting. There is no travel between work sites, always from home to work and back again. Indeed you can opt to travel to a park and ride or train station some days of the week if you prefer, it is still commuting.
Also, you seemed to suggest in your original post that an insurance company not paying out would result in an IN10, which is distinct from your story.
As another poster points out, in the case of an inadequate premium paid, a reduced payout with priority for any third party may be the way it goes (I don’t know as it has never happened to me).
