Fuel Protest

stevieboy308:
you can’t stop progress.

joe public tend not to like loads of big trucks on the road, the, in my opinion minority of loud voiced, must be seen to be listening to, greenies are here to stay. to you say you shouldn’t work with rail firms as they are the enemy,

How the zb can the greens be the relevant authority when no one has ever given them a mandate by voting the zb’s into power :question: .Yes rail is (should be) viewed as the enemy,from the point of view of the road transport industry,in just the same way as the rail freight industry views the road transport industry as the enemy in the case of competing with each other for the same work.Which is just the way it should be,without the present situation of government intervention by levying road fuel taxation on road transport to make rail more competitive than it otherwise would be. :imp: :imp: :unamused:

Vascoingles:

Carryfast:

Vascoingles:
Railfreight will never take over basically because it lacks flexibility not because of price

simple a truck will wait a couple of hours to load or unload and then carry on with the journey as quick as legally possible

a train does not will not wait and it maybe a couple of days before the required connections to the destination can be organised

freightonrail.org.uk/CaseStu … arkets.htm

how many times has an unloading address been changed when you are halfway there ? for whatever reason the train is not going to turn around and go somewhere else, while it may be of use for certain things it will in no way get anywhere near replacing road transport on a grand scale as 90% of places do not hold stock anymore to save on warehousing costs and work on a just in time basis, this means the slightest production delay and it is not going to be on time for the train, a truck is more flexible with more methods of recovering time lost a train cannot do this, simples really even Carryfast with his vast knowledge of all things concerning transportation should be in a postion to grasp this basic fact I would have thought.

The Stobart train from Valencia only fills up because it is so ■■■■ cheap that the oranges go to the UK nearly free of charge just so that some idiot somwhere can fill in an Exel sheet proving that is has an 80% occupation rate.

I send hundreds of trailers every year via intermodal either boat or train and the biggest headache is the train with it,s never ending variety of excuses as to why it is going to be late ranging from the usual ones like leaves on the line and the wrong kind of snow to they do not why it is late, result being the only goods that we put on the train are those that have all the time in the world to get there, we will not even mention the 5 trailers that they lost that were supposed to come off the train in Luxembourg which they eventually found 4 days later in bloody hamburg nor the amount of trailers that they seem to have forgot to put on the train even though you have a confirming e-mail that they have been loaded.

Yet more contradictory bs.You seem to be saying that rail freight is hopeless but then you’re also saying that you send hundreds of trailer loads by rail not by road.Assuming that all road fuel taxes were removed then the road transport industry would be able to provide you with the service levels that you’re looking for at rail freight type prices.Which means more jobs in the industry for those who are,at present,shutting down and walking away from their long distance traction and sub contract operations,because they can’t compete with the fuel costs of sending the zb loads by rail instead. :imp: :unamused:

I think around 80% of truck journeys in the uk are under 100 miles anyway.

kr79:
I think around 80% of truck journeys in the uk are under 100 miles anyway.

It’s obvious that you’ll get a higher count on the basis of the amounts of journeys.What matters is the actual kms figure of freight carried which is the relevant figure of productivety.The most efficient and best paying operations,from a road transport point of view,would be long distance LHV operations running on untaxed fuel.No surprise that it would be the rail freight industry that would fight tooth and nail to stop it with the help of their big business supporting cronies in government. :unamused: :imp: :imp:

stevieboy308:
you can’t stop progress.

joe public tend not to like loads of big trucks on the road, the, in my opinion minority of loud voiced, must be seen to be listening to, greenies are here to stay. to you say you shouldn’t work with rail firms as they are the enemy, you stick with your phone box, i’ll use my mobile.

who knows what it may bring, it didn’t look good for royal mail once the masses took up email, but then that brought ebay and mail order with it.

True you cannot stop progress

Joe public are more concerned about big trucks in their villages and cities, not so much on motorways, Just makes you wonder what joe public think when the motorway is congested at weekends and especially during bank holidays and Sale times when not so many trucks are actually on the roads :question:
The reality of having everything by train and RDC’s on out skirts of cities in the UK is plain Unworkable, Joe public would love to have around 20 Transits for every truck that is taken off the road, multiply that by how many trucks would of been going into say London, One bonus thou, More driving jobs :laughing: , but at what cost, a bigger environmental so called foot print :unamused: , oh you may say electric, great one, esp when running during peak times, additional transits on the roads, and working during the winter months, but then again more work for recovery drivers :laughing:

Carryfast:

kr79:
I think around 80% of truck journeys in the uk are under 100 miles anyway.

.The most efficient and best paying operations,from a road transport point of view,would be long distance LHV operations running on untaxed fuel.
Tax free fuel can’t see that happening. Your thinking way to far out of the box for the government.

PinkLadyTrucker:

stevieboy308:
you can’t stop progress.

joe public tend not to like loads of big trucks on the road, the, in my opinion minority of loud voiced, must be seen to be listening to, greenies are here to stay. to you say you shouldn’t work with rail firms as they are the enemy, you stick with your phone box, i’ll use my mobile.

who knows what it may bring, it didn’t look good for royal mail once the masses took up email, but then that brought ebay and mail order with it.

True you cannot stop progress

Joe public are more concerned about big trucks in their villages and cities, not so much on motorways, Just makes you wonder what joe public think when the motorway is congested at weekends and especially during bank holidays and Sale times when not so many trucks are actually on the roads :question:
The reality of having everything by train and RDC’s on out skirts of cities in the UK is plain Unworkable, Joe public would love to have around 20 Transits for every truck that is taken off the road, multiply that by how many trucks would of been going into say London, One bonus thou, More driving jobs :laughing: , but at what cost, a bigger environmental so called foot print :unamused: , oh you may say electric, great one, esp when running during peak times, additional transits on the roads, and working during the winter months, but then again more work for recovery drivers :laughing:

There’s nothing progressive about the policy of government intervention in the free competition,between the road and rail freight transport industries,using taxation and over regulation to tip the playing field in favour of rail freight.

As I’ve said if it’s really progress that they are looking for then why not see which one wins out on efficiency,given a fair fight,between intermodal freight movement v long distance LHV operations,without the tax breaks presently given to rail in the form of road fuel taxation that makes road transport operations economically unviable before they’ve even left the yard and gross weight limits that make road trasnport’s tonne/mile/per gallon fuel consumption figures look worse than they could be. :bulb:

kr79:

Carryfast:

kr79:
I think around 80% of truck journeys in the uk are under 100 miles anyway.

.The most efficient and best paying operations,from a road transport point of view,would be long distance LHV operations running on untaxed fuel.
Tax free fuel can’t see that happening. Your thinking way to far out of the box for the government.

The government seems to have no problem with thinking ‘outside the box’ wen it comes to allowing rail freight operators to use untaxed diesel though.

PinkLadyTrucker:

stevieboy308:
you can’t stop progress.

joe public tend not to like loads of big trucks on the road, the, in my opinion minority of loud voiced, must be seen to be listening to, greenies are here to stay. to you say you shouldn’t work with rail firms as they are the enemy, you stick with your phone box, i’ll use my mobile.

who knows what it may bring, it didn’t look good for royal mail once the masses took up email, but then that brought ebay and mail order with it.

True you cannot stop progress

Joe public are more concerned about big trucks in their villages and cities, not so much on motorways, Just makes you wonder what joe public think when the motorway is congested at weekends and especially during bank holidays and Sale times when not so many trucks are actually on the roads :question:
The reality of having everything by train and RDC’s on out skirts of cities in the UK is plain Unworkable, Joe public would love to have around 20 Transits for every truck that is taken off the road, multiply that by how many trucks would of been going into say London, One bonus thou, More driving jobs :laughing: , but at what cost, a bigger environmental so called foot print :unamused: , oh you may say electric, great one, esp when running during peak times, additional transits on the roads, and working during the winter months, but then again more work for recovery drivers :laughing:

being held up on A roads, the mile + long overtakes on dual carriageways / motorways, pulling out in front of people, driving too close to them and the carnage caused when it goes wrong, amongst plenty of other stuff would quickly get ticked off if you are asking non trucking folk about their opinions on trucks.

trains are never going to replace trucks, but chances are they’ll increase their market share, the majority of people imho would want that. just because i hold a hgv licence doesn’t mean i’m going to start jumping up and down.

i’m still waiting for you to tell me how standing together should work

stevieboy308:

PinkLadyTrucker:

stevieboy308:
you can’t stop progress.

joe public tend not to like loads of big trucks on the road, the, in my opinion minority of loud voiced, must be seen to be listening to, greenies are here to stay. to you say you shouldn’t work with rail firms as they are the enemy, you stick with your phone box, i’ll use my mobile.

who knows what it may bring, it didn’t look good for royal mail once the masses took up email, but then that brought ebay and mail order with it.

True you cannot stop progress

Joe public are more concerned about big trucks in their villages and cities, not so much on motorways, Just makes you wonder what joe public think when the motorway is congested at weekends and especially during bank holidays and Sale times when not so many trucks are actually on the roads :question:
The reality of having everything by train and RDC’s on out skirts of cities in the UK is plain Unworkable, Joe public would love to have around 20 Transits for every truck that is taken off the road, multiply that by how many trucks would of been going into say London, One bonus thou, More driving jobs :laughing: , but at what cost, a bigger environmental so called foot print :unamused: , oh you may say electric, great one, esp when running during peak times, additional transits on the roads, and working during the winter months, but then again more work for recovery drivers :laughing:

being held up on A roads, the mile + long overtakes on dual carriageways / motorways, pulling out in front of people, driving too close to them and the carnage caused when it goes wrong, amongst plenty of other stuff would quickly get ticked off if you are asking non trucking folk about their opinions on trucks.

trains are never going to replace trucks, but chances are they’ll increase their market share, the majority of people imho would want that. just because i hold a hgv licence doesn’t mean i’m going to start jumping up and down.

i’m still waiting for you to tell me how standing together should work

No co incidence or surprise that all the hold ups on A roads and carnage issues bs propaganda all seem to disappear when the zb rail freight supporters want trucks to be used on intermodal work though. :smiling_imp: :imp:

The fact is there’s no way that the rail freight industry can increase it’s share,(helped by the present government intervention using fuel taxation :imp: )to force loads onto intermodal operations,without it having an equally damaging effect on the long distance sector of the road transport industry.

The history,of the main driver of the road transport industry’s growth,shows that it’s doubtful wether the industry has much of a long term future,with such a reduction in it’s acccess to that sector of the market,considering the part,that the shift from rail to long distance road transport has played,in that growth,over the years.

I could certainly foresee a major shift in potential new drivers’ attitudes to the industry with just local work being on the table (why drive a 44 tonner when you could drive a car on taxi work :smiling_imp: :laughing: ) and the same would probably apply to the truck manufacturing industry if the long distance sector of it’s market for trucks dissapeared in the medium term.

The whole issue is just a case of allowing a load of self interested big business zb’s having hijacked the green party agenda and they are using their unmadated policies to ‘rail road’ the rail freight agenda through and the road transport industry is stupid enough to let the zb’s do it.

However if the so called ‘majority’ really supported the zb greens then that’s what they would have voted for at the election and as the rail industry shows,in wanting to tear up the countryside,to put in rail freight depots and new lines that aren’t required,considering the unused road transport capacity that’s sitting redundant because it can’t afford the overtaxed diesel to run it’s trucks on,the rail freight industry is anything but zb green when it suits it. :imp:

Standing together in this case would mean total removal of all co operation with intermodal rail movements to start with and then see if the government will allow a level playing field between road and rail on fuel taxation.

In my job, railfreight works well; I do quite a bit of stone out of Wootton Bassett sidings (was the station goods depot) and Banbury railhead (Lafarge). A train from (in the case of Banbury) Mountsorell brings about 1500tonnes of granite in one go and this train unloads itself direct into whatever bay the stone needs to be in (the wagons have conveyors fitted). This saves a hell of a lot of lorry journeys. This is the type of freight Beeching wanted to encourage; local stuff now done by couriers and the Palletforce ilk didn’t pay because of the time consuming process of loading into a wagon, shunting it to a siding, coupling to a passing train, uncoupling at a junction then coupling to another passing train when a man in a van does it one movement for a fraction of the cost.
…But then he couldn’t shift 50000 units of the same from the docks to Fast Eddies warehouse.

Carryfast:
Yet more contradictory bs.You seem to be saying that rail freight is hopeless but then you’re also saying that you send hundreds of trailer loads by rail not by road.Assuming that all road fuel taxes were removed then the road transport industry would be able to provide you with the service levels that you’re looking for at rail freight type prices.Which means more jobs in the industry for those who are,at present,shutting down and walking away from their long distance traction and sub contract operations,because they can’t compete with the fuel costs of sending the zb loads by rail instead. :imp: :unamused:

as always anything contrary to the thoughts of carryfast is classified as bs ?

my post said hundereds of trailers by boat or train not just by train apparently reading is not your strongest point ?

those that go on the train is a customer requirement not by choice as they think about their green footprint but are the first to complain if the train is late :unamused:

why should taxes be removed ? if you are worth your weight running or owning a company adjust your prices or get out of the game

Vascoingles:

Carryfast:
Yet more contradictory bs.You seem to be saying that rail freight is hopeless but then you’re also saying that you send hundreds of trailer loads by rail not by road.Assuming that all road fuel taxes were removed then the road transport industry would be able to provide you with the service levels that you’re looking for at rail freight type prices.Which means more jobs in the industry for those who are,at present,shutting down and walking away from their long distance traction and sub contract operations,because they can’t compete with the fuel costs of sending the zb loads by rail instead. :imp: :unamused:

as always anything contrary to the thoughts of carryfast is classified as bs ?

my post said hundereds of trailers by boat or train not just by train apparently reading is not your strongest point ?

those that go on the train is a customer requirement not by choice as they think about their green footprint but are the first to complain if the train is late :unamused:

why should taxes be removed ? if you are worth your weight running or owning a company adjust your prices or get out of the game

Why shouldn’t road fuel taxes be removed considering that in any other type of industry such government rigging of free competition between industries would be classed as illegal.You’re saying that the road transport industry should ‘adjust’ it’s prices just as the government want it to do in order to make itself uncompetitive against the rail freight industry.In other words commercial suicide for any operators who want to remain competitive in the long distance sector of the industry.

It would be interesting to see how strong the green agenda actually is compared to the bottom line on price and service levels given the choice between using a competitive road transport industry or the rail freight industry with a level playing field on fuel taxation between the two.However as I’ve said if it’s all about the zb greens and not price then the greens obviously would’nt be out of power without a proper electoral mandate and those customers would be using the better service levels that have for years been provided by road transport compared to railfreight. :bulb:

Although having said that the hypocricy contained in their own policies is sufficient to even tear their own party apart considering the contradictions contained in the arguments of supposedly saving us all from non existent global warming by using lethal nuclear power instead of coal and tearing up the countryside to put more rail infrastructure in while we park up trucks that could be running on the existing motorway and road networks here and throughout Europe carrying freight.Instead of it being transhipped onto the railfreight industry just to provide big business with yet more profits for it’s fat cats and probably the retired politicians who’ve supported it’s unfair competition practices. :imp:

Muckaway:
In my job, railfreight works well; I do quite a bit of stone out of Wootton Bassett sidings (was the station goods depot) and Banbury railhead (Lafarge). A train from (in the case of Banbury) Mountsorell brings about 1500tonnes of granite in one go and this train unloads itself direct into whatever bay the stone needs to be in (the wagons have conveyors fitted). This saves a hell of a lot of lorry journeys. This is the type of freight Beeching wanted to encourage; local stuff now done by couriers and the Palletforce ilk didn’t pay because of the time consuming process of loading into a wagon, shunting it to a siding, coupling to a passing train, uncoupling at a junction then coupling to another passing train when a man in a van does it one movement for a fraction of the cost.
…But then he couldn’t shift 50000 units of the same from the docks to Fast Eddies warehouse.

That’s not exactly the same thing as long distance general haulage intermodal fridge and/or freight operations that could and mostly did go by truck previously and that have only been lost by the road transport industry to the rail freight industry on the basis of unfair road fuel taxation policies and over regulation not service levels.

Intermodal, Oil, Minerals, it doesn’t matter the fact is it’s better to shift the lot in one go rather than dozens of smaller trips. Then you’ve got the nuclear flask trains.

Muckaway:
Intermodal, Oil, Minerals, it doesn’t matter the fact is it’s better to shift the lot in one go rather than dozens of smaller trips. Then you’ve got the nuclear flask trains.

If intermodal was better then there wouldn’t be someone who seems to know a bit about using the service who says that it’s service levels are zb by comparison wit road and there wouldn’t have been years of growth in long distance road transport over the years at the expense of rail and the rail freight industry wouldn’t give a zb even if road fuel tax was removed and if LHV’s were allowed because it would still have the so called advantage under your ideas. :bulb:

Carryfast:

Muckaway:
Intermodal, Oil, Minerals, it doesn’t matter the fact is it’s better to shift the lot in one go rather than dozens of smaller trips. Then you’ve got the nuclear flask trains.

If intermodal was better then there wouldn’t be someone who seems to know a bit about using the service who says that it’s service levels are zb by comparison wit road and there wouldn’t have been years of growth in long distance road transport over the years at the expense of rail and the rail freight industry wouldn’t give a zb even if road fuel tax was removed and if LHV’s were allowed because it would still have the so called advantage under your ideas. :bulb:

You might think it’s ■■■■ service but the stone’s always there when I want a load…even at Hansons.

Muckaway:

Carryfast:

Muckaway:
Intermodal, Oil, Minerals, it doesn’t matter the fact is it’s better to shift the lot in one go rather than dozens of smaller trips. Then you’ve got the nuclear flask trains.

If intermodal was better then there wouldn’t be someone who seems to know a bit about using the service who says that it’s service levels are zb by comparison wit road and there wouldn’t have been years of growth in long distance road transport over the years at the expense of rail and the rail freight industry wouldn’t give a zb even if road fuel tax was removed and if LHV’s were allowed because it would still have the so called advantage under your ideas. :bulb:

You might think it’s [zb] service but the stone’s always there when I want a load…even at Hansons.

I think that’s also the case with bulk loads of coal to power stations but that’s not exactly the same thing as the type of service issues that Vascoingles seemed to have raised in regards to intermodal freight movements.However I’ve not seen any decent reasoning as to why road transport should be subject to road fuel taxation levels while rail isn’t or why LHV’s shouldn’t be allowed on long distance work.

However,as I’ve said,‘if’ the rail transport industry is as good as you say it is then it (should have) no problems or complaints,with the issue of competing with the road transport industry on long distance work,assuming that the road transport industry gets the level playing field of being able to use untaxed diesel and LHV’s.I’ll believe that would ever be the case,concerning the rail freight industry,when I see it. :imp: :unamused:

Carryfast:

Muckaway:
In my job, railfreight works well; I do quite a bit of stone out of Wootton Bassett sidings (was the station goods depot) and Banbury railhead (Lafarge). A train from (in the case of Banbury) Mountsorell brings about 1500tonnes of granite in one go and this train unloads itself direct into whatever bay the stone needs to be in (the wagons have conveyors fitted). This saves a hell of a lot of lorry journeys. This is the type of freight Beeching wanted to encourage; local stuff now done by couriers and the Palletforce ilk didn’t pay because of the time consuming process of loading into a wagon, shunting it to a siding, coupling to a passing train, uncoupling at a junction then coupling to another passing train when a man in a van does it one movement for a fraction of the cost.
…But then he couldn’t shift 50000 units of the same from the docks to Fast Eddies warehouse.

That’s not exactly the same thing as long distance general haulage intermodal fridge and/or freight operations that could and mostly did go by truck previously and that have only been lost by the road transport industry to the rail freight industry on the basis of unfair road fuel taxation policies and over regulation not service levels.

Previously things like the mail, fish and fruit were moved by trains and small lorries distributed it from sidings, like they do with the stone, steel and ore nowadays

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:

Muckaway:
In my job, railfreight works well; I do quite a bit of stone out of Wootton Bassett sidings (was the station goods depot) and Banbury railhead (Lafarge). A train from (in the case of Banbury) Mountsorell brings about 1500tonnes of granite in one go and this train unloads itself direct into whatever bay the stone needs to be in (the wagons have conveyors fitted). This saves a hell of a lot of lorry journeys. This is the type of freight Beeching wanted to encourage; local stuff now done by couriers and the Palletforce ilk didn’t pay because of the time consuming process of loading into a wagon, shunting it to a siding, coupling to a passing train, uncoupling at a junction then coupling to another passing train when a man in a van does it one movement for a fraction of the cost.
…But then he couldn’t shift 50000 units of the same from the docks to Fast Eddies warehouse.

That’s not exactly the same thing as long distance general haulage intermodal fridge and/or freight operations that could and mostly did go by truck previously and that have only been lost by the road transport industry to the rail freight industry on the basis of unfair road fuel taxation policies and over regulation not service levels.

Previously things like the mail, fish and fruit were moved by trains and small lorries distributed it from sidings,

But things changed since that time in the actual balance of general freight traffic and refrigerated foodstuffs transport moved over long distances by road compared to rail which led to growth in the road transport industry and contraction in the rail freight industry :question: .

The issue that is relevant to the topic is the use of road fuel taxation as a way of rigging the transport market in favour of rail to change that balance back in favour of rail by hijacking the green agenda to benefit a the big business rail freight agenda.

The fact is the situation is just an alliance of big business rail freight interests and government ministers that effectively provides a subsidy to the rail freight industry in the form of a tax break for rail freight by imposing fuel taxation on the road transport industry that isn’t applied to the rail freight industry.

No surprise that many British drivers have (sensibly) decided to zb off to Canada where also,no surprise,the whole issue seems to be just the same in regards to the bs demands of the rail freight industry (no prizes for guessing what it means by calls for ‘‘dialogue with a view of developing ‘an integrated transport policy’ that would be reflected in both federal and provincial legislation’’) but (a lot) different in regards to the Canadian government’s position regarding those demands. :smiling_imp: :wink:
So far.
Watch this space :question: .

arrc.ca/transportation.asp

ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 … up-111127/