On Google, dated August 2012, I can see a sign before the turning says ‘Unsuitable for HGVs’ At the entrance there are two signs saying 616" width limit except for access.
jediknight:
The lorry driver is reported to be only 19.so lack of experience could of been a factor here.
If this is the case somebody dig that thread out when the law changed from 21-18, this was exactly what was predicted!
It’s also a total failing of hgv learning schools and the test none of which make any sort of reference to protecting your brakes and using exhausters, down shifting etc.
Has anyone got a link to where it says the driver of the tipper was only 19, because I have not seen that mentioned anywhere
To be fair, let’s wait for the report on the vehicle tests from the appropriate Government facility before drawing any conclusions.
Driver-Once-More:
Has anyone got a link to where it says the driver of the tipper was only 19, because I have not seen that mentioned anywhere
The article says the driver is thought to be 19.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-31359495
A lot more info here
Also says driver was only 19. Sounds like it was intended to deliver to construction project at the school.
Talk of frantically beeping horn which with the twin Hadleys on there makes me think air was low and just the electric factory one may have been operating.
tachograph:
Driver-Once-More:
Has anyone got a link to where it says the driver of the tipper was only 19, because I have not seen that mentioned anywhereThe article says the driver is thought to be 19.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-31359495
Many thanks Tacho
simon1958:
Sowerby Bridge incident a few years back… Yorkshire ring any bells?.. Bit of a parallel scenario.
The driver there wasn’t blamed. Mechanical defect, which the driver could not have known about in advance…
merc0447:
jediknight:
The lorry driver is reported to be only 19.so lack of experience could of been a factor here.If this is the case somebody dig that thread out when the law changed from 21-18, this was exactly what was predicted!
It’s also a total failing of hgv learning schools and the test none of which make any sort of reference to protecting your brakes and using exhausters, down shifting etc.
To be fair in the case of the idea of brakes to slow gears to go,as opposed to gears to slow brakes to stop,it is probably more a case of the age of the instructor and/or the age of whoever taught the instructor,than the age of the driver. 
When I was taught to drive, I was told to go down the hill in the gear you came up in (not talking about clothes here). May seem over the top now with our modern trucks, but its something I still do when I feel its necessary. Scrub all the speed off on the flat before the slope, and forget about the ■■■■■■■■ in your mirror…usually a tipper driver.
Carryfast:
To be fair in the case of the idea of brakes to slow gears to go,as opposed to gears to slow brakes to stop,it is probably more a case of the age of the instructor and/or the age of whoever taught the instructor,than the age of the driver.
Not a bad theory, sorry but no cigar.
The DVSA set the requirements that have to be met in order to gain an LGV driving test pass.
LGV driving instructors have to teach a candidate to pass a DVSA driving test.
It’s the DVSA way or no way, so maybe the system stinks!
The way you’d go down that hill weighted in a C+E compared to a tipper would be different I would hope…
I was told when on instruction - “If you rely on the engine or exhaust brake when running downhill with a full load on - you risk jackknifing at the slightest turn of the steering wheel. Your trailer won’t be braking anywhere near enough unless you use the service brake properly. Braking the tractor only with exhaust and/or engine brakes just won’t cut it”.
With that in mind, when approaching a steep hill down, I slow right down thus avoiding the need to hit the footbrake real hard. Padding the footbrakes, going down the hill at a slower than normal speed for the road, and using this in conjuction with the engine/exhaust brakes works fine for me say, going down Detling Hill in Kent - a dual carriageway steep declination with bends in it to boot.
Of all the different trucks - I like the MAN “inertial damper” style engine & exhaust brakes best. I like the Actros ones the least!
In theory, a newly-passed driver would have been told all this, which makes one wonder if despite his age, we shouldn’t be too quick to blame “driver inexperience” here.
That’s just it isn’t it, you are taught to pass the test not how to drive a variety of lorries properly (and I mean that with no disrespect to instructors). A EuroCargo with a few IBCs in the back is a lot different to a maxed out 32 tonner. I use the engine braking on my ERF all the time but I know some who drive it and immediately turn it off.
Question, if he’d lost air I presume also he lost the clutch pedal, making a drop down a few cogs or even engaging a gear from neutral very difficult especially if the lad wasn’t very experienced. Pure speculation though. Horrible tragedy. 
Janos:
When I was taught to drive, I was told to go down the hill in the gear you came up in (not talking about clothes here). May seem over the top now with our modern trucks, but its something I still do when I feel its necessary. Scrub all the speed off on the flat before the slope, and forget about the [zb] in your mirror…usually a tipper driver.
The rule was never go down a hill in a gear ‘higher’ than you’d use to climb it which obviously left the option of a possibly even lower gear.
Added to which was the general idea of using gears in the form of numerous downshifts not just brakes to slow for roundabouts and junctions etc.The brakes in that case just being used as method to bring down the road speed to a point where the next downshift brings the revs to just below the red which was/is essential to get the best effect from engine braking and especially an exhaust brake.As we know the driving ‘schools’ and DSA have decided that slowing down should be all about using the brakes with the required downshifting consigned to the history books.
Luckily for me I was taught the ‘right way’ to slow a truck down by my old ex WW2 tank transporter driver dad who was himself taught the ‘rules’ by necessity by driving in the mountainous regions of northern Italy.Which I then put to good use driving an old Clydesdale usually fully freighted to its max with heavy plant with the old Reigate Hill being a regular route,without the luxury of an exhaust brake having used that method from the start to finish of my time in the job .
All of which also,even in the early 1980’s,causing a ‘few’ ‘arguments’ between myself and most of my instructors who were even then pushing that idea of brakes to slow gears to go.In large part on the basis that brakes are supposedly cheaper to replace than the supposed wear and tear on drivelines caused by the idea of gears to slow brakes to stop. 
Make no mistake regardless of the eventual result of the inquiries in this case. The idea of excessive reliance on brakes,possibly as a result of the demands of penny pinching in the industry,added to idiotic instruction based on car driving techniques which should have no place in a heavy truck,is a recipe for disaster in terms of its potential for cooked brakes.
dieseldave:
Carryfast:
To be fair in the case of the idea of brakes to slow gears to go,as opposed to gears to slow brakes to stop,it is probably more a case of the age of the instructor and/or the age of whoever taught the instructor,than the age of the driver.Not a bad theory, sorry but no cigar.
The DVSA set the requirements that have to be met in order to gain an LGV driving test pass.
LGV driving instructors have to teach a candidate to pass a DVSA driving test.It’s the DVSA way or no way, so maybe the system stinks!
Is there any actual evidence that examiners will fail a candidate for using downshifting to create engine braking as an essential part of the slowing process,as opposed to the typical training regime of brakes and block change on the approach,which I just couldn’t/refused to,get my head around.
I can only say in my own experience I passed both class 2 and class 1 first time having refused to go along with that method.Although having said that they were both obviously older generation old school examiners in my case at the time.
Winseer:
simon1958:
Sowerby Bridge incident a few years back… Yorkshire ring any bells?.. Bit of a parallel scenario.The driver there wasn’t blamed. Mechanical defect, which the driver could not have known about in advance…
Runaway lorry in crash that killed six had 'no brakes': Driver was unaware of danger, inquest told | The Independent | The Independent
Sowerby Bridge Disaster 20 years on | Calendar - ITV News
YES … BUT ONE BRAKE OUT OF 8 FOUND TO BE EFFICIENT 
… I remember it like yesterday.
Low & behold, that T.Manager went on for a similar post despite the Court findings…
dailymail.co.uk/news/article … crash.html
Just reading the article, and found some info to update:
It is thought the truck - whose driver is said to be aged 19 - was delivering aggregate to be used in construction work at the primary school.
Witnesses said the lorry driver was 19 and had frantically tried to stop anybody being hurt in the accident.
Philip Browne, 65, spoke to the man after he crawled out of the windscreen of his cab.
He said: 'The poor chap was in bits. He was looking for a coat and was shaking and upset. He was in a state of shock.
'He said “I think I’ve killed somebody”. He said that he was coming down the hill and his boss was driving in front of him.
‘His boss stopped at the crossing. He said that he tried to apply the breaks but they didn’t work and then he grabbed the handbrake.
‘He was sounding his horn, trying to get people out if his way. He said he was trying to slow down by driving along the houses’ walls.’
I started driving heavy vehicles at 19 (although 18t buses not 32t tippers) they had a 6 week training programme which included the theory, practical, tickets/fares and route learning. One of the days we were taken by a mechanic who showed us a hydraulic filled retarder and the inside fins and explained how it worked. Having seen how things work and having them explained like this is something I feel a lot of drivers would benefit from.
If what Braveheart has posted transpires to be true than this points towards a tragic accident (providing vehicle was properly maintained) and the driver has my sympathies. To have 4 deaths on your concience must be awful.
My thoughts with you as well. I have had my licence for just over 2 years, and I have driven on and off for that time. I have been around Bath a couple of times, and I have always taken it really slowly on the hills, and used my exhaust brake going down hills, coupled with light use of my service brake. I certainly wasn’t taught in my training what to do if I had a brake failure, but I am pretty sure I would have done similar to that lad, and tried to scrub speed off by brushing against hedges/walls.
It’s a terrible tragedy for all involved, and a horrible thing for the driver to live with.
ROG:
Are there any mechanics on here who can explain how a brake failure can occur on a LGVThe only thing I know is that if it looses the air then the brakes lock on but that’s the limit of my knowledge …
They use shuttle valves in the most part. One of those fails and it simply doesn’t release the pressure so the brakes remain off. The other worrying aspect is the ever increasing involvement of electronics in the braking system. Someone I know was telling me the other night he did a trailer swap with a guy and hooking up some of the marker lights weren’t working because of a dodgy susie. He said that more worryingly when he came to the first set of lights it was obvious the trailer brakes weren’t doing anything even though there was no problem with the airlines. The day driver has a reputation of screwing round trailers and stretching the susies to hell. He took off the ABS susie, turned it around and the brakes started working OK again. The unit is a 64 plate Iveco.