jediknight:
No some companys have the apprenicship scheme where they train younger drivers to get them into the industry.
Here’s a link-Young Drivers Scheme (YDS) - Driver Shortage
GasGas:
If the wheel brakes are sufficient, why do trucks have exhaust brakes, engine brakes and at least the option of a retarder? And why aren’t theses secondary braking systems included in the truck-driving test, which is now 4 parts and includes searching your vehicle for illegal immigrants…which is handy if you are driving a tipper truck in the Mendips.
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To reduce wear on the brake linings.
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To reduce the build up of heat during prolonged braking such as descending down from Stainmore on the A66.
Definition of RHETORICAL QUESTION
: a question not intended to elicit an answer but asked for rhetorical effect often with an assumption that only one answer is possible (as in “Who does not love his country?”)
O.K… Let’s add another dimention to a theory.( political & POLITICS WHICH I HATE ). some nondescript in that sandstone citadel’o’Westminster decided … ‘‘it wuz a good idea to put a ‘supercharged-Saxo’ driver in charge of a 44T truck’’.
19… FFS
I’m scripting as an O.T myself, but professional drivers have 6th sense,( Help Harry Monk) …like when ya trailer’s pushing ya { slang on words }.
Conor:
GasGas:
If the wheel brakes are sufficient, why do trucks have exhaust brakes, engine brakes and at least the option of a retarder? And why aren’t theses secondary braking systems included in the truck-driving test, which is now 4 parts and includes searching your vehicle for illegal immigrants…which is handy if you are driving a tipper truck in the Mendips.
To reduce wear on the brake linings.
To reduce the build up of heat during prolonged braking such as descending down from Stainmore on the A66.
Firstly retarders were generally found to be not practical enough for use in trucks for reasons of weight,complication and expense.
Which mainly left the exhaust brakes or the superior Jake type systems.The idea of an exhaust/jake type braking system is to reduce the amount of check braking required to stop the engine over revving under all types of engine braking thereby reducing brake heat input thereby increasing the effective braking reserves.
Much of the benefit of which is obviously negated by a training regime which puts the emphasis on using brakes and avoiding engine braking wherever possible.Or assuming drivers aren’t sufficiently trained in the importance of maintaining slow road speeds and high engine speeds by use of sufficiently low gears when descending hills.IE exhaust brakes or Jake brakes are pointless unless drivers are trained in the basics of the essential importance of engine braking used in combination with brakes.The idea of brakes to slow gears to go being a totally counter productive doctrine in that regard.
ckm1981:
Is it just me who things it’s nothing more that downright disrepctful to those that die/suffer injury in a accident when people make assumptions about the cause or what happened?.
welcome to TNUKCSI! 
experts done and dusted by one picture 
and even the police on the radio said " THEY’RE STILL INVESTIGATING! " 
RIP to the deceased, 
and the injured too!
I hate school construction jobs. They want the materials delivered but put loads of restrictions when you can and can’t deliver. Taking those into account and the fact that the site probably shuts around 4-4.30, the driver was probably trying to get a load off he probably had a very small timeframe to get there. I bet there was no access 12 until 1, then no more access 2.30-4 and then the site is padlocked by 4.30.
Then after school clubs chucking out after 3.30 cause more hassle.
simon1958:
O.K… Let’s add another dimention to a theory.( political & POLITICS WHICH I HATE ). some nondescript in that sandstone citadel’o’Westminster decided … ‘‘it wuz a good idea to put a ‘supercharged-Saxo’ driver in charge of a 44T truck’’.19… FFS
I’m scripting as an O.T myself, but professional drivers have 6th sense,( Help Harry Monk) …like when ya trailer’s pushing ya { slang on words }.
Its all about training.I’d prefer to be in front of a 19 year old driver trained in the doctrine of gears to slow brakes to stop than a 30 year old one trained on the basis of brakes to slow gears to go for example.
As for a trailer ‘pushing’ that’s just another form of un braked axles under engine braking.The fact is the idea of trying to avoid the former by general avoidance of use of the latter will inevitably end in tears of over cooked brakes at some point.Not withstanding the inherent flaws contained in the artic design to jacknife,especially in 4 x 2 configuration.The fact is in the real world engine braking very rarely puts enough braking force in to lock the drive axle/s.
I know not too much about lorrys but both mine have retarders and I would never buy one without. Maybe should be standard fitment nowadays.
Winseer:
The way you’d go down that hill weighted in a C+E compared to a tipper would be different I would hope…I was told when on instruction - “If you rely on the engine or exhaust brake when running downhill with a full load on - you risk jackknifing at the slightest turn of the steering wheel. Your trailer won’t be braking anywhere near enough unless you use the service brake properly. Braking the tractor only with exhaust and/or engine brakes just won’t cut it”.
With that in mind, when approaching a steep hill down, I slow right down thus avoiding the need to hit the footbrake real hard. Padding the footbrakes, going down the hill at a slower than normal speed for the road, and using this in conjuction with the engine/exhaust brakes works fine for me say, going down Detling Hill in Kent - a dual carriageway steep declination with bends in it to boot.Of all the different trucks - I like the MAN “inertial damper” style engine & exhaust brakes best. I like the Actros ones the least!
In theory, a newly-passed driver would have been told all this, which makes one wonder if despite his age, we shouldn’t be too quick to blame “driver inexperience” here.
Is Detling Hill the A249 from the M2 to the M20? Proper steep going down to the M20 with really sharp bends on narrow dual sections. I bet there’s been a few accidents on there in the past.
Looks like a P Cab Scania to me, like the ones I often drive on nights and also repair, most likely drum brakes S cam type, this type on a Scania is not noted for being over sharp, if you drive them hard it’s easily possible to have brake fade and also if the drums are worn the shoes can go over the cam without much effort resulting in no brakes on that wheel
the exhauster brake as fitted to this model is also poor, an engine brake like fitted to Volvo is not available on a Scania as far as I know, the retarders on the other hand which is an option are said to be very good, though many tipper operators don’t spec them due to cost and weight.
just another thought is that LGV learner drivers I’ve spoken to say that these days they are trained to rely to much on the brakes, ie running up to a roundabout in a high gear slowing only on the brakes, if retarders and engine brakes are used properly the service brakes are cooler and keener when needed
I’ve no idea what the cause of this accident was so thoughts go to all involved
Carryfast…Thanks… I beg to ask…How many years on the road…fella?
Moose:
just another thought is that LGV learner drivers I’ve spoken to say that these days they are trained to rely to much on the brakes, ie running up to a roundabout in a high gear slowing only on the brakes
I was “corrected” during a SAFED drive because I used gears and Jake Brake instead of brake pedal. I pointed out that that was the way Dad had taught me, and that I could drop down Fish Hill at Broadway fully loaded, barely touching the brake pedal.
Clearly I was wrong, and that I should’ve gone down there with red hot brake drums.
I see people keep referring back to the drivers age,all made our minds up have we that because he was “young” he was somewhat inexpericened…so go in enlighten me,how would we all have made sure this didn’t happen if it was you behind the wheel?
Doesn’t matter if he was 19 or 90 if there was a fault out of his control that attributed to this awful accident.
The more years experience you have the more brown pants moments you’ve had. It’s best to get that experience in smaller vehicles that do less damage.
ckm1981:
I see people keep referring back to the drivers age,all made our minds up have we that because he was “young” he was somewhat inexpericened…so go in enlighten me,how would we all have made sure this didn’t happen if it was you behind the wheel?
Doesn’t matter if he was 19 or 90 if there was a fault out of his control that attributed to this awful accident.
Well for me if I felt it going and no brakes working I would of gone straight into garden walls not let it keep gathering speed.
Apparently driver is 19 years old…unexperienced even being car driver,poor little lad,feel sory for him,four people my god i would change place of living tbh,and if this accident was done by foreign driver omg i can see this comments…
Just spent 30 mins typing out a long post about Brake failure and how much has been built into modern trucks to make them safer. Then pressed the wrong ■■■■ keys and lost the lot.
What would I have done? Not been driving LGVs for a while now, but I learnt in the 70’s in an area with plenty of big hills, and some trucks with very inadequate brakes.
Prudence and experience (learnt through looking death in the face) would make me tackle such a steep hill in a gear that would allow me to hold speed on the engine with retarder(if fitted) and only use the brakes to slow down if the revs go into the red - (and at that point, slow down and change into the next lower gear, until I could hold speed with minimum use of the brake)
If severe brake fade or burnout occurs, you are in the hands of your Maker. The only thing you can do is try to avoid hitting anything until you either find a gravel escape trap (only on the most serious deathtrap hills) or get to the next uphill bit. You’ll also need to have all green traffic lights, if there’s other traffic in front, and preferably no sharp bends or roundabouts or Toll Booths.
Brake actuation system failure is very unlikely, although one thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that it can be tricky to remember the secondary brake actuator when the footbrake fails. I was trained in the days of 3 line brakes, and that meant having to demonstrate using the secondary to come to a controlled halt. I suspect that may not still be in the approved syllabus?
joker83:
Apparently driver is 19 years old…unexperienced even being car driver,propably on the phone and foot on the brake constantly,feel sory for him,four people my god i would change place of living tbh,and if this accident was done by foreign driver omg i can see this comments…
Or a Stobart driver or even Agency, we’d be on 10 pages now!!! 
In my 30+ years I have experienced brake failure three times.
Twice on motorways where the brakes hadn’t been touched for a couple of hours and once on a dual carriageway where they would have been warm at most.
In all three cases the brakes came back as mysteriously as they disappeared and luckily no damage was done. What’s more, the mechanics could find NOTHING WRONG.