Volvo I shift I drive drops gears to give maximum engine braking will give more or less depending on what position you have the lever in on steering column very good setup.
At least some of the automated transmissions have no synchromesh…so they do a double-declutch ‘blip’ changing down.
I knew a Scania driver who used to do a ‘blip’ changing up!
kr79:
Volvo I shift I drive drops gears to give maximum engine braking will give more or less depending on what position you have the lever in on steering column very good setup.
will it change down on its own as soon as the next gear is available as you slow down though? pretty sure the one i occasionally drive, i have to change down manually when the next gear is available or pull back on the stalk
stevieboy308:
kr79:
Volvo I shift I drive drops gears to give maximum engine braking will give more or less depending on what position you have the lever in on steering column very good setup.will it change down on its own as soon as the next gear is available as you slow down though? pretty sure the one i occasionally drive, i have to change down manually when the next gear is available or pull back on the stalk
I’d guess that the engine braking control that kr is referring to alters the calibration of the auto downshift from lower speeds up to the max speed possible for the gear.The higher the road speed when it downshifts shifts the higher the engine speed and therefore max engine braking.Which really is just a feature which panders to the idea that drivers aren’t trained to a sufficient standard to judge the optimum downshift point manually in that regard.
Which would then obviously raise the question what happens if/when the driver in question is given a ‘proper’ manual box to drive. 
Let alone the fact,that the idea of instinctively training drivers to just resort to the brakes,on the basis of institutionally avoiding the use of engine braking,contradicts the whole idea of how a heavy truck ( should be ) slowed at all times,wether I shift or proper manual,anyway. 
GasGas:
At least some of the automated transmissions have no synchromesh…so they do a double-declutch ‘blip’ changing down.I knew a Scania driver who used to do a ‘blip’ changing up!
The matching of engine speed with road speed is an essential part of the downshift process wether synchro or constant.Synchro just allows more margin for error in that matching.But trust me if a loaded truck is running down a steep hill,at the wrong speed,with insufficient engine braking,because it hasn’t been put in the right gear at the right time,synchros won’t make the resulting possible life or death mid descent downshift much if any easier.In the case of constant getting it wrong in those circumstances will just mean lots of grinding noises and a possibly runaway truck while in the case of synchro it will just obstruct the shift with the same result.
In which case that ‘blip’ of the accelerator,as part of a double declutched shift, and getting it right to match the shaft/gear speeds,is just basic standard driving wether synchro or constant mesh box and can even ( in certain circumstances ) be the difference between getting the gear,or disaster.
The frightening thing being that the training establishment seems to have been infiltrated by the very worst type of basic driving ideology in that regard even in terms of driving a car,let alone a heavy truck.
How far would you like like the DSA to go on fixing the training and the testing of new drivers? How about them making sure they are actually capable of reversing their vehicle in the real world, and not just inbetween a few cones, or are capable of of manoeuvring a full length artic around our road networks with out having the trailer wheels up the kerbs of junctions or roundabouts, or clipping other vehicles or buildings with the tail swing, or making sure these drivers can actually see further than their noses, so they don’t have to sit 10 feet off the bumper of the vehicle in front at 55 mph.
Shouldn’t it be the resposibility of the vehicle owners to train drivers on specific vehicles, especially new drivers, and not the DSA?
Trying to get the trainers and the DSA to train and test drivers to far higher standards would make getting a licence far more expensive than it is now.
Thing is Weeto the very second the trainee sits his/her arse on the lorry seat, the trainer should say that you are now about to drive a lorry, and it will be driven as a lorry, it is not a big car and it never will be, we do not semi coast to a junction especially downhill in an inappropriate gear relying on and abusing the brakes, you as a driver are going to control this lorry as a lorry should be.
If gears are used correctly from the very first drive, and where applicable (won’t be often cos the light load isn’t enough) auxilliary braking used, then it will become second nature for the new driver…this should be ongoing with company trainers and assessors too…incidentally i have never once been admonished on an assessment for either overriding the auto function, nor using correct gears for maximum ■■■■■■ with the exhaust brake.
It goes without saying that auto pass should only cover an auto licence, and most auto boxes have an auto ■■■■■■ feature of some sort, utilising that should be part of auto training too.
The cost of training may well be too low now, it’s probably only worth what the cost currently is, the cost to the nation and to possible victims of poor training is incalcuble.
weeto:
How far would you like like the DSA to go on fixing the training and the testing of new drivers? How about them making sure they are actually capable of reversing their vehicle in the real world, and not just inbetween a few cones, or are capable of of manoeuvring a full length artic around our road networks with out having the trailer wheels up the kerbs of junctions or roundabouts, or clipping other vehicles or buildings with the tail swing, or making sure these drivers can actually see further than their noses, so they don’t have to sit 10 feet off the bumper of the vehicle in front at 55 mph.
Shouldn’t it be the resposibility of the vehicle owners to train drivers on specific vehicles, especially new drivers, and not the DSA?
Trying to get the trainers and the DSA to train and test drivers to far higher standards would make getting a licence far more expensive than it is now.
The North American training regime seems to manage to train people to drive a six wheeler tractor unit,with a constant mesh box and a 53 ft semi trailer ( including the mad California type tail sweep ) on the basis of gears to slow brakes to stop from day 1 with no problems.So why not the Brits.The job skill set is really being turned into a farce by the current DSA thinking.
Juddian:
Thing is Weeto the very second the trainee sits his/her arse on the lorry seat, the trainer should say that you are now about to drive a lorry, and it will be driven as a lorry, it is not a big car and it never will be, we do not semi coast to a junction especially downhill in an inappropriate gear relying on and abusing the brakes, you as a driver are going to control this lorry as a lorry should be.
A thousand times this.^
Carryfast:
Juddian:
Thing is Weeto the very second the trainee sits his/her arse on the lorry seat, the trainer should say that you are now about to drive a lorry, and it will be driven as a lorry, it is not a big car and it never will be, we do not semi coast to a junction especially downhill in an inappropriate gear relying on and abusing the brakes, you as a driver are going to control this lorry as a lorry should be.A thousand times this.^
.
Carryfast:
Juddian:
Thing is Weeto the very second the trainee sits his/her arse on the lorry seat, the trainer should say that you are now about to drive a lorry, and it will be driven as a lorry, it is not a big car and it never will be, we do not semi coast to a junction especially downhill in an inappropriate gear relying on and abusing the brakes, you as a driver are going to control this lorry as a lorry should be.A thousand times this.^
Dont they do that then?
weeto:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
Thing is Weeto the very second the trainee sits his/her arse on the lorry seat, the trainer should say that you are now about to drive a lorry, and it will be driven as a lorry, it is not a big car and it never will be, we do not semi coast to a junction especially downhill in an inappropriate gear relying on and abusing the brakes, you as a driver are going to control this lorry as a lorry should be.A thousand times this.^
Dont they do that then?
On the basis of instilling an instinctive doctrine of brakes to slow gears to go,as opposed to gears to slow brakes to stop,no.
Perhaps they don’t do it because there is no need to do it in this day and age, maybe they only thing that is missing from the test is a loaded hill decent, but who in there right mind would want to supervise a learner doing one of them?
weeto:
Perhaps they don’t do it because there is no need to do it in this day and age, maybe they only thing that is missing from the test is a loaded hill decent, but who in there right mind would want to supervise a learner doing one of them?
I think that is the type of logic which ( might possibly ) eventually turn out to have resulted in the case in question assuming no mechanical failure.While if not still leaves a massive potential risk regardless.So exactly what evidence are you going by which suggests that service brakes have any more significant reserves of durability or heat tolerance before becoming useless in ‘this day and age’ as opposed to an earlier ‘day and age’.
As for supervising/testing ‘a learner’ to carry out a loaded severe hill descent at the very least I’d suggest the theory should be part of the DCPC as shown in the video which I posted.Combined with the general doctrine of gears to slow not brakes as part of the general driver training regime would suffice.Assuming a driver with an adequate level of common sense needed to do the job.
weeto:
Perhaps they don’t do it because there is no need to do it in this day and age, maybe they only thing that is missing from the test is a loaded hill decent, but who in there right mind would want to supervise a learner doing one of them?
you’re joking, right■■?
Carryfast:
weeto:
Perhaps they don’t do it because there is no need to do it in this day and age, maybe they only thing that is missing from the test is a loaded hill decent, but who in there right mind would want to supervise a learner doing one of them?
I think that is the type of logic which ( might possibly ) eventually turn out to have resulted in the case in question assuming no mechanical failure.While if not still leaves a massive potential risk regardless.So exactly what evidence are you going by which suggests that service brakes have any more significant reserves of durability or heat tolerance before becoming useless in ‘this day and age’ as opposed to an earlier ‘day and age’.
As for supervising/testing ‘a learner’ to carry out a loaded severe hill descent at the very least I’d suggest the theory should be part of the DCPC as shown in the video which I posted.Combined with the general doctrine of gears to slow not brakes as part of the general driver training regime would suffice.Assuming a driver with an adequate level of common sense needed to do the job.
I should think some of evidence would come from the lack of use of escape lanes on hilly sections, Garroby Hill for one, that has had grass growing in it for years.
And then there is obviously my own experience, which is zero incidents of brake fade in 26 years, then there is the technological advances in truck braking systems including pad and shoe compounds.
Then there would be the evidence the government will have on truck accidents and what caused them, then there is automatic slack adjusters that always have the brakes working to full potential on every wheel, no more having 4 of the six drums on a trailer not doing their fare share, no more miss match of breaking on all axles or between unit and trailer.
Before you carry on this, put in an FOI request for all incidents caused by brake fade in the last 10 years, I think that would be a very rare occurrence in these modern times on modern vehicles.
stevieboy308:
weeto:
Perhaps they don’t do it because there is no need to do it in this day and age, maybe they only thing that is missing from the test is a loaded hill decent, but who in there right mind would want to supervise a learner doing one of them?you’re joking, right■■?
About what?
weeto:
stevieboy308:
weeto:
Perhaps they don’t do it because there is no need to do it in this day and age, maybe they only thing that is missing from the test is a loaded hill decent, but who in there right mind would want to supervise a learner doing one of them?you’re joking, right■■?
About what?
stevieboy308:
weeto:
stevieboy308:
weeto:
Perhaps they don’t do it because there is no need to do it in this day and age, maybe they only thing that is missing from the test is a loaded hill decent, but who in there right mind would want to supervise a learner doing one of them?you’re joking, right■■?
About what?
Would you put your life in their hands? I have seen “qualified” drivers out there who I would NOT get into the cab with, let alone a learner!!
weeto:
Would you put your life in their hands? I have seen “qualified” drivers out there who I would NOT get into the cab with, let alone a learner!!
i’d happily teach someone how to go down a hill at full weight. thinking about it, i have done a few times
maybe if they had of been shown how to do it, you wouldn’t be scared of getting in with them
i’ve heard landing a plane can be a bit tricky, shall we just talk the trainees through it, then wish them luck whilst taking you off on your jollies? 