heres a jake head to work 2 cylinders for those who haven’t seen one .
There is an interesting historical comparison between practice in the haulage industry and in the bus industry regarding driver training. The fact that most bus companies used to be strongly unionised may have some bearing, although much of the practice has carried over into modern day operation. The bus companies adopted a policy of ‘Type Training’ which was exactly what it said. Drivers had to be passed by a company instructor on their proficiency in every model of vehicle they were required to drive. The unions were quite strict on this, to the extent that the proficiency could and did expire if some considerable time had passed since a driver had last operated that particular type of bus. This policy needs more widespread adoption.
I still have the obstruction spanners etc from when I used to install Jake Brakes and probably somewhere the destructions for how to do the job.
Having read this forum over the last couple of days i wasn’t aware that most trainers appear to be teaching ’ newbies’ to use brakes only to slow down. This is absolutely rediculous. As l stated in my previous comment i drive an 8 wheeler and when loaded its always to the max 32 ton. To use brakes only would be ridiculous!! If this is what trainers are training their pupils to do then l would suggest if a tragic incident like this occurs then the trainer is summoned to court to explain their training practices. Call me suspicious but from a training point of view is it just a case of training people to use gears to slow and exhaust brakes might effect their pass rate hence their success rate!?!?!?!?!?
cav551:
I still have the obstruction spanners etc from when I used to install Jake Brakes and probably somewhere the destructions for how to do the job.
Including the bent feeler gauge ?
weeto:
Own Account Driver:
Carryfast:
Ironically,going by the comments in the video and some other info from people like Allison,it looks like they are actually building in auto downshift intelligence into the automated/auto boxes anyway.In which case those half wits at the DSA can start telling their bs and try to argue the point with a machine which is programmed not to give a zb.Although it’s anyone’s guess how they programme it to know when there is a roundabout ahead.They’ll probably just base it on a simplistic reading of accelerator position in that case in which case the DSA will probably at least want the auto rev match to be disabled to save the planet.
They start running down the gears as soon as you put the exhaust brake or retarder on. The higher the stage the faster they run down the gears.
You’d of though that some one who comes across as knowing everything, would know that
If I thought I knew everything,especially in the case of trying to re invent the wheel in the form of the latest generations of auto/automated transmissions, when the last autos I ever drove were 1970’s tech Allisons,I wouldn’t have asked the question. 
Getting back to the question and point how does the DSA deal with a machine which obviously defies all the known laws of brakes to slow gears to go in that case. 
3stepsaheaduk:
I passed class 2 last year and being agency has certainly helped me by driving at least 10 different types of vehicle manual or automatic i agree automatics are dangerous will only let you downshift when it thinks the revs wont be to high
The obvious question in that case would be to contact the manufacturers of the trans in question and ask them why their product doesn’t allow downshifts throughout the whole useable rev range in order to obtain max engine braking ability.
Coolrider:
Having read this forum over the last couple of days i wasn’t aware that most trainers appear to be teaching ’ newbies’ to use brakes only to slow down. This is absolutely rediculous. As l stated in my previous comment i drive an 8 wheeler and when loaded its always to the max 32 ton. To use brakes only would be ridiculous!! If this is what trainers are training their pupils to do then l would suggest if a tragic incident like this occurs then the trainer is summoned to court to explain their training practices. Call me suspicious but from a training point of view is it just a case of training people to use gears to slow and exhaust brakes might effect their pass rate hence their success rate!?!?!?!?!?
It is probably a bit more complicated than that.The idea goes back at least to the 1980’s and the answer I was given,at that time,suggested a combination of operator pressure based on the erroneous premise that use of gears to slow a truck puts wear and tear on drivelines so it is cheaper to replace brakes.Together with blind driver training establishment ignorance and arrogance in thinking that driving a truck the police car driving way is best.
While it now seems that the eco lot have also put their bit in.Based on the idea that high engine speed equates to high fuel consumption even in an over running zero load engine braking situation.While it must also be better ( in their view ) to have trucks running up to roundabouts and down hills etc in relative silence rather than have the noise of a relatively howling engine and exhaust/jake. 
Carryfast:
3stepsaheaduk:
I passed class 2 last year and being agency has certainly helped me by driving at least 10 different types of vehicle manual or automatic i agree automatics are dangerous will only let you downshift when it thinks the revs wont be to highThe obvious question in that case would be to contact the manufacturers of the trans in question and ask them why their product doesn’t allow downshifts throughout the whole useable rev range in order to obtain max engine braking ability.
The automatics I’ve driven exhaust brake + tap on the foot brake = drop in gear, not the case across the board?
Muckaway:
truckman020:
just seen on the jobcentre website,grittenham haulage are looking for a class 2 driver,coincidence or notIs that a new advert or the one from a month ago? I posted earlier about the old advert, surely they wouldn’t advertise so soon?
I did wonder myself,took 5 min out to re check and the ad was placed on the 27 1 15 so its the old one
My eurocargo always drops gears when you come to a stop, usually it’s actually too aggressive and lurches you forward as it drops from 6th to 3rd as you slow for a roundabout.
Also with the exhaust brake in mode 1, as soon as you touch the foot brake it drops a gear and revs it’s ■■■■ off.
cav551:
I still have the obstruction spanners etc from when I used to install Jake Brakes and probably somewhere the destructions for how to do the job.
The retarder idea has the clear advantage of working on the output side of the transmission so obviously provides braking with a declutched driveline and not reliant on connection to engine braking.Therefore allowing easy mid decent downshifts whithout any increase in speed messing up the speed matching and/or risk of runaway.On that basis of money no object the combination of exhaust brake and retarder seems about as good as it gets.Other than that the Jake idea should be a compulsory minimum fitment.
All of which being rendered effectively useless on the basis of a doctrine of ( service brakes ) to slow gears to go.
109LWB:
My eurocargo always drops gears when you come to a stop, usually it’s actually too aggressive and lurches you forward as it drops from 6th to 3rd as you slow for a roundabout.Also with the exhaust brake in mode 1, as soon as you touch the foot brake it drops a gear and revs it’s ■■■■ off.
The idea of dropping from 6th to 3rd would probably have that effect because its probably too large a drop to match the engine speed sufficiently with the road speed when engaging the lower gear.It probably really needs closer sequential downshifts starting earlier on the approach sufficient to maintain as high engine speed as possible but in an evenly spaced progression.That’s the advantage of using the human brain connected to a proper manual box.
As for the combination of ‘revving its ■■■■ off’ and exhaust brake that’s how an exhaust brake and engine braking are supposed to work to do their job.
Vid:
Carryfast:
3stepsaheaduk:
I passed class 2 last year and being agency has certainly helped me by driving at least 10 different types of vehicle manual or automatic i agree automatics are dangerous will only let you downshift when it thinks the revs wont be to highThe obvious question in that case would be to contact the manufacturers of the trans in question and ask them why their product doesn’t allow downshifts throughout the whole useable rev range in order to obtain max engine braking ability.
The automatics I’ve driven exhaust brake + tap on the foot brake = drop in gear, not the case across the board?
It will drop a gear but only down to 3rd if you lower than that you do it yourself which isnt hard but if you were panicking you could press it too early and nothing will happen and it will only go to top of the green not in the blue
Carryfast:
109LWB:
My eurocargo always drops gears when you come to a stop, usually it’s actually too aggressive and lurches you forward as it drops from 6th to 3rd as you slow for a roundabout.Also with the exhaust brake in mode 1, as soon as you touch the foot brake it drops a gear and revs it’s ■■■■ off.
As for the combination of ‘revving its ■■■■ off’ and exhaust brake that’s how an exhaust brake and engine braking are supposed to work to do their job.
Well hello Sherlock.
WE had two lorries with Telma retarders when i started back in 1971. They were expensive and added weight , but used properly were good. Unfortunately drivers did not release them and burnt them out. They worked exactly same as the voight one. Driver abuse again.
Carryfast:
While it now seems that the eco lot have also put their bit in.Based on the idea that high engine speed equates to high fuel consumption even in an over running zero load engine braking situation.
i don’t think it’s the high revving in overrun they’re against, it’s the blips when changing down they don’t like and deem a waste of fuel
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
While it now seems that the eco lot have also put their bit in.Based on the idea that high engine speed equates to high fuel consumption even in an over running zero load engine braking situation.i don’t think it’s the high revving in overrun they’re against, it’s the blips when changing down they don’t like and deem a waste of fuel
Possibly but that is just an essential part of pre matching the engine speed to the road speed.In the case of an auto/automated manual otherwise known as auto blip .Which like over run doesn’t require much if any engine load so not much if any fuel and certainly not worth trading at any cost,the extra stress required on the service brakes,in the case of the brakes to slow instead of gears doctrine.
On that note listen to this I shift,which by that standard,has just failed its driving test. 
youtube.com/watch?v=TQy7tlHH5Yo 2.40-3.13
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
While it now seems that the eco lot have also put their bit in.Based on the idea that high engine speed equates to high fuel consumption even in an over running zero load engine braking situation.i don’t think it’s the high revving in overrun they’re against, it’s the blips when changing down they don’t like and deem a waste of fuel
Possibly but that is just an essential part of pre matching the engine speed to the road speed.In the case of an auto/automated manual otherwise known as auto blip .Which like over run doesn’t require much if any engine load so not much if any fuel and certainly not worth trading at any cost,the extra stress required on the service brakes,in the case of the brakes to slow instead of gears doctrine.
On that note listen to this I shift,which by that standard,has just failed its driving test.
youtube.com/watch?v=TQy7tlHH5Yo 2.40-3.13
it’s not my argument! i agree with you
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
While it now seems that the eco lot have also put their bit in.Based on the idea that high engine speed equates to high fuel consumption even in an over running zero load engine braking situation.i don’t think it’s the high revving in overrun they’re against, it’s the blips when changing down they don’t like and deem a waste of fuel
Possibly but that is just an essential part of pre matching the engine speed to the road speed.In the case of an auto/automated manual otherwise known as auto blip .Which like over run doesn’t require much if any engine load so not much if any fuel and certainly not worth trading at any cost,the extra stress required on the service brakes,in the case of the brakes to slow instead of gears doctrine.
On that note listen to this I shift,which by that standard,has just failed its driving test.
youtube.com/watch?v=TQy7tlHH5Yo 2.40-3.13
it’s not my argument! i agree with you
I’d guessed that from the tone of your posts. 
Everything which I’ve put on the topic here is directed at those half wits running the DSA establishment.In the hope that it might just make them think and then maybe help to prevent future braking type issues on the roads,regardless of whatever the eventual cause of the specific problem in this case turns out to be.