Carryfast:
Maybe the driver training establishment could explain the reason for the proposed pointless,unrealistic,over delayed weight regime.
Carryfast, my reading of your comment leads me to wonder whether you believe that the “training establishment” make their own rules?
The training establishment are governed by what the DVSA tells them is required to pass a driving test, and there’s no escaping from that.
The DVSA are only answerable to the DfT, so maybe that’s a target for an FOI question.
Carryfast:
If they aren’t going to apply max weight for vehicle type for both instruction and testing there really isn’t any point.Let alone waiting until 2017 to do it.
On YouTube sorry not worked out how to link yet. There’s a video explaining using retarders. It’s by renault and is overdubbed in English. After watching it I can’t imagine how we could have a training policy which relies on a service brake. I searched using keywords ‘retarders’ and ’ how to use’ try adding Voigt as that’s the company it’s done in conjunction with. In the meantime I’ll work out how to post a link.
Diversion2:
On YouTube sorry not worked out how to link yet. There’s a video explaining using retarders. It’s by renault and is overdubbed in English. After watching it I can’t imagine how we could have a training policy which relies on a service brake. I searched using keywords ‘retarders’ and ’ how to use’ try adding Voigt as that’s the company it’s done in conjunction with. In the meantime I’ll work out how to post a link.
Carryfast:
Maybe the driver training establishment could explain the reason for the proposed pointless,unrealistic,over delayed weight regime.
Carryfast, my reading of your comment leads me to wonder whether you believe that the “training establishment” make their own rules?
The training establishment are governed by what the DVSA tells them is required to pass a driving test,
By ‘establishment’ I meant the whole lot from top to bottom dave.If the buck needs to be passed up the line then that’s obviously what it takes.However going by ROG’s previous comments the issue of getting a fully freighted wagon along the road using engine braking as an essential part of the braking process obviously involves more than just getting the DSA onside.
Diversion2:
On YouTube sorry not worked out how to link yet. There’s a video explaining using retarders. It’s by renault and is overdubbed in English. After watching it I can’t imagine how we could have a training policy which relies on a service brake. I searched using keywords ‘retarders’ and ’ how to use’ try adding Voigt as that’s the company it’s done in conjunction with. In the meantime I’ll work out how to post a link.
The problem is retarders cost big money for operators in terms of purchase,maintenance and loss of payload.While arguably not doing a lot if any more to slow a truck than the Jake brake option.
Whatever the choice what that great video does suggest is that there are actually people out there who obviously equate high engine speeds off load on the over run used for engine braking etc with high fuel consumption.
When the reality is the sound of a howling engine,preferably with a Jake brake adding to it,going down a hill or on the approach to a roundabout is the sound of safety.
Diversion2:
On YouTube sorry not worked out how to link yet. There’s a video explaining using retarders. It’s by renault and is overdubbed in English. After watching it I can’t imagine how we could have a training policy which relies on a service brake. I searched using keywords ‘retarders’ and ’ how to use’ try adding Voigt as that’s the company it’s done in conjunction with. In the meantime I’ll work out how to post a link.
Diversion2:
On YouTube sorry not worked out how to link yet. There’s a video explaining using retarders. It’s by renault and is overdubbed in English. After watching it I can’t imagine how we could have a training policy which relies on a service brake. I searched using keywords ‘retarders’ and ’ how to use’ try adding Voigt as that’s the company it’s done in conjunction with. In the meantime I’ll work out how to post a link.
It would also seem to contradict the idea that only using a service brake to slow is in some way being kinder to the environment.
It seems very similar to what the Volvo guy told me to do, with the Volvo Engine Brake, when we got our first Ishift truck.
In which case 6.00-6.04 obviously blows the training establishment’s idea of brakes to slow gears to go out of the water.Regardless of wether its manual or I shift etc or Retarder or just exhaust brake.IE change down on the approach to obtain a high engine speed to provide maximum engine braking.Which is what anyone here who knows better is trying to tell them.
I think it is more instinct rather than having be taught (or trained), to put ANY type of vehicle in a low gear when descending a steep hill.
I do however remember being told off by a HGV driving EXAMINER for using gears as part of the general slowing down process. He said I should use the brakes ONLY, which is advice I purposefully choose to ignore after my test. Something about being in the right gear for all situations is something that is is somehow ingrained in me. Quite how that works with the modern trucks with auto boxes is beyond my knowledge, as I have never driven one, nor would I have any real desire to.
LIBERTY_GUY:
I think it is more instinct rather than having be taught (or trained), to put ANY type of vehicle in a low gear when descending a steep hill.
I do however remember being told off by a HGV driving EXAMINER for using gears as part of the general slowing down process. He said I should use the brakes ONLY, which is advice I purposefully choose to ignore after my test. Something about being in the right gear for all situations is something that is is somehow ingrained in me. Quite how that works with the modern trucks with auto boxes is beyond my knowledge, as I have never driven one, nor would I have any real desire to.
Ironically,going by the comments in the video and some other info from people like Allison,it looks like they are actually building in auto downshift intelligence into the automated/auto boxes anyway.In which case those half wits at the DSA can start telling their bs and try to argue the point with a machine which is programmed not to give a zb.
Although it’s anyone’s guess how they programme it to know when there is a roundabout ahead.They’ll probably just base it on a simplistic reading of accelerator position in that case in which case the DSA will probably at least want the auto rev match to be disabled to save the planet.
LIBERTY_GUY:
I think it is more instinct rather than having be taught (or trained), to put ANY type of vehicle in a low gear when descending a steep hill.
I do however remember being told off by a HGV driving EXAMINER for using gears as part of the general slowing down process. He said I should use the brakes ONLY, which is advice I purposefully choose to ignore after my test. Something about being in the right gear for all situations is something that is is somehow ingrained in me. Quite how that works with the modern trucks with auto boxes is beyond my knowledge, as I have never driven one, nor would I have any real desire to.
Ironically,going by the comments in the video and some other info from people like Allison,it looks like they are actually building in auto downshift intelligence into the automated/auto boxes anyway.In which case those half wits at the DSA can start telling their bs and try to argue the point with a machine which is programmed not to give a zb.
Although it’s anyone’s guess how they programme it to know when there is a roundabout ahead.They’ll probably just base it on a simplistic reading of accelerator position in that case in which case the DSA will probably at least want the auto rev match to be disabled to save the planet.
They start running down the gears as soon as you put the exhaust brake or retarder on. The higher the stage the faster they run down the gears.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Eight legged tippers take some stopping when laden, as folks on site will often try to overload you. Easy to catch out the unwary, irrespective of age…
The lorry involved was carrying aggregate, the quarry wouldn’t let print him a ticket.
On site, they often ask “got scales, drive?” and are surprised if you don’t. Again the lorry in Bath would be fairly hard to overload on normal muckaway, he carries/carried 19.5t and the body is shallow, a level load would normally be about 17-18t. I had a “full load” of clay on the other day and only got 15t on.
LIBERTY_GUY:
I think it is more instinct rather than having be taught (or trained), to put ANY type of vehicle in a low gear when descending a steep hill.
I do however remember being told off by a HGV driving EXAMINER for using gears as part of the general slowing down process. He said I should use the brakes ONLY, which is advice I purposefully choose to ignore after my test. Something about being in the right gear for all situations is something that is is somehow ingrained in me. Quite how that works with the modern trucks with auto boxes is beyond my knowledge, as I have never driven one, nor would I have any real desire to.
Ironically,going by the comments in the video and some other info from people like Allison,it looks like they are actually building in auto downshift intelligence into the automated/auto boxes anyway.In which case those half wits at the DSA can start telling their bs and try to argue the point with a machine which is programmed not to give a zb.
Although it’s anyone’s guess how they programme it to know when there is a roundabout ahead.They’ll probably just base it on a simplistic reading of accelerator position in that case in which case the DSA will probably at least want the auto rev match to be disabled to save the planet.
They start running down the gears as soon as you put the exhaust brake or retarder on. The higher the stage the faster they run down the gears.
You’d of though that some one who comes across as knowing everything, would know that
Having read this thread with interest over the weekend,first of all what strikes me most is how much this is a complete tragedy all round for the families and driver alike .
Secondly, i was unaware of the “brakes to slow ,engines to go philosophy” is being taught as the correct way of driving heavy vehicles ,
even though brakes are supposedly more efficient this imho is close to insanity and will only result in more accidents and deaths. Although the cause of this particular accident has yet still to be clear i think many on here agree its time to go back to basics and ditch this “you will do things as we tell you to do them” mentality by the the likes of stobarts et al [which is mainly driven by a need to deliver ever increasing profits and maximising shareholder return ] and re-ignite the values of learning from those who have done the job are able to pass on their their experiences without being told that this “is not company policy”.
I would wager any driving instructor that the use of exhaust brakes ,gears and retarding systems is vital when descending steep gradients .
I took this load from a farm in north devon last week back to crediton where there are some monster hills [as anyone who knows the torrington to south molton road will tell you ] and was using a combination of the above most of the journey, and not to would be very foolish at best.
REGARDS
TZZ
I passed class 2 last year and being agency has certainly helped me by driving at least 10 different types of vehicle manual or automatic i agree automatics are dangerous if the brakes fade as you can overide somee but will not let you dowb shift into the blue it will only let you downshift when it thinks the revs wont be to high also i have been doing my ckass one training and in both class 2 and one i have been repeatedly told not to o use the gears to slowdown which i politely ignored i have always used engine braking as i have ridden motorbikes since i was 10 years old and drove cars not long after i have also crashed as a result of brake fade when i was younger in a car i think the training and test for hgvs is well outdated and needs a complete overhaul
