nick2008:
And some FULLY AUTOMATIC trucks canNOT be over ridden so the only way to change down is by how ■■
All the automatics i have driven Merc, Scania, Volvo, Daf and Iveco all have a manual switch option or you can change down in auto by using the stalk.
Which fully automatic model are you referring to?
Not been unlucky enough to get one so doctored yet, but i understand ZF’s tragicmatic can come without the PROFI (the irony) version, or deprogrammed if fitted, to stop drivers being able to override the auto function…what suited half wit came up with that gem i wonder?
If i should get issued with one i shall do as i did before about another issue, and that is to write to the company pointing out the dangers of being unable to properly ■■■■■■ the vehicle by use of manual input on the gears in combination with the exhaust brake and the possible results…the other issue i refer to (other lads in the depot countersigned the letter as they agreed with the tag dump valve lack of) the vehicles were retrofitted in short order.
Anything potentially dangerous you feel strongly enough about lads, put it in writing (email too for permanence) sensibly to the head honcho, it’ll be fixed i guarantee you.
So sad for this young driver , don’t think he will come back from this , hope it doesn’t ruin his young life ,
As terrible it is to say I really hope it was a mechanical failure and not his fault, I know this of no condolences to the family’s of the dead , but at least the the young driver can look in the mirror and say it wasn’t his fault!
Like been mentioned on here I believe personally the job has become , someone wakes up and wants to be a lorry driver , pays his fees (expensive at that ) and passes , not his/her fault and good luck to them but I believe companies ESP big companies have a moral duty to do more “apprenticeships” I started like most on a ■■■■■■ van , MERC 410d (Tacho) , Daf 45 7.5t, then some god awful daf day cab 17.5t lol and finally on to artics , I will probably never drive a 700bhp truck but am happy.
What am getting at , our company not the best in the world but have a good record of promoting within of van boys /pickers etc ,
Once again RIP to all that died and thoughts with this Young guy who mush be in mental agony
There is a ‘fleet’ version of I-Shift out there at Euro 6 (and may have been before, I don’t know) that gives the driver no control of what gear it’s in. No manual override, no kickdown switch, nothing.
nick2008:
And some FULLY AUTOMATIC trucks canNOT be over ridden so the only way to change down is by how ■■
All the automatics i have driven Merc, Scania, Volvo, Daf and Iveco all have a manual switch option or you can change down in auto by using the stalk.
Which fully automatic model are you referring to?
our DAF’s they have the select on the left console between the seats ie Drive, crawler ( tortoises) then R and R1
(tortoises) the stalk only has left right main flash and dip with horn . the other side does naf all. exhaust break on the floor .
Juddian:
We may have to return to longer training periods, where competence in vehicle handling and control can again be taught.
When were these longer training periods that taught handling and control?
Maybe i was lucky, i was taught by one of the really old school, the other trainers there mentioned he won ‘lorry driver of the year’ 3 years running when still a full time driver.
Traction (wet greasy hill starts), gear control (serious subject that) and manoeuvering featured highly on his agenda, none of this two turns when you see the second cone bollox, his idea of learning to manoeuver was to set out a chicane of umpteen cones you had to zig zag forwards through, and he wasn’t happy till you could reverse the route too, made the test reverse a piece of cake.
Brakes to slow gears to go hadn’t been dreamed up by some shiny seat twerp then, so slowing down on the gears was THE way to drive…no exhauster on a V8 Perkins Mastiff, and you wentt from crawler to top and back down again every single day in a full gearchanging exercise.
I’m eternally grateful to Jimmy Morrison of Export and General, Dunstable, driving school.
There was time to teach you lorry control on a full 10 day course.
I had an interesting chat with a really nice young driver (tanker) tipping back to back with me this week, he’d been driving two years and he still shudders at how unprepared for and terrified he was of the real world of lorries after passing his test, particularly the manoeuvering instruction he described so well which was nothing short of a useless exercise as now skill whatsoever was required, just turn so much when you see such and such and when something lines up with X turn so many truns back again, utter bollox and the trainer who does that should be ashamed of themselves.
It sounds like you were lucky with you trainer more than it being anything to do with a better era for training and testing, I got reasonable training, but then got lucky as I was able to double man the truck with my brother learn from him, even though when I got my first job on my own I still felt ill prepared. It’s one of the reason I don’t think inexperienced drivers should be on agency work, that should be for drivers with enough experience to jump into different truck and jobs. new drivers should be with a company who’ll mentor them until they gain some experience, of course that won’t happen.
As for maneuvering I’ve seen the same from new drivers, unless they’ve got skills from being round truck from a young age. I wrote earlier defending young drivers, saying the best driver I double manned a truck with was only 25, and I felt safer with him at the wheel than drivers twice his age and with many more years experience. And he could handle a truck in a tight spot, but he’d been round trucks all his life as his father had a fleet of them working out of their slaughterhouse.
I agree with you absolutely about agency work, it’s really not the ideal baptism for a new driver, gawd its bad enough when you’ve been doing the job umpteen years and can let all the idiot comments from the incompetent’s that couldn’t get a job anywhere else crew, that thankfully appear to be in a minority, everywhere you go.
Going back to training though, s’funny but you had no trouble getting a start in the 70’s, companies were happy to start you as a new driver…compare with today where newby’s are almost untouchable…does the lack of proper training have anything to do with this i wonder, alleged driver shortage or not?
Olog Hai:
There is a ‘fleet’ version of I-Shift out there at Euro 6 (and may have been before, I don’t know) that gives the driver no control of what gear it’s in. No manual override, no kickdown switch, nothing.
I think these g/bs should still shift down if the exhaust brake is engaged, or if the truck as ‘active’ cruise control (prevents truck over-running pre-set speed).
The real problem is for young drivers they may know the theory, but the reality of seeing the rev counter deep in the blue -just short of the red P45 line, and hearing the horrible noises that the engine makes, may be too much for them. Unless they’ve experienced it with an instructor saying “This is what it looks and sounds like” they may not realise that what seems wrong is actually right.
nick2008:
our DAF’s they have the select on the left console between the seats ie Drive, crawler ( tortoises) then R and R1
(tortoises) the stalk only has left right main flash and dip with horn . the other side does naf all. exhaust break on the floor .
You should be able to change down using the right hand stalk
Olog Hai:
There is a ‘fleet’ version of I-Shift out there at Euro 6 (and may have been before, I don’t know) that gives the driver no control of what gear it’s in. No manual override, no kickdown switch, nothing.
I think these g/bs should still shift down if the exhaust brake is engaged, or if the truck as ‘active’ cruise control (prevents truck over-running pre-set speed).
The real problem is for young drivers they may know the theory, but the reality of seeing the rev counter deep in the blue -just short of the red P45 line, and hearing the horrible noises that the engine makes, may be too much for them. Unless they’ve experienced it with an instructor saying “This is what it looks and sounds like” they may not realise that what seems wrong is actually right.
nick2008:
our DAF’s they have the select on the left console between the seats ie Drive, crawler ( tortoises) then R and R1
(tortoises) the stalk only has left right main flash and dip with horn . the other side does naf all. exhaust break on the floor .
You should be able to change down using the right hand stalk
There is no right hand stalk … read the past posts … not all trucks HAVE a driver MANUAL over ride
Its a bit like saying all trucks have a hand break when in reality they don’t as to me a hand break is a break that you apply by HAND yet Volvo and Merc’s have bypassed this and implemented electronic hand breaks that come on automatically.
We have all done things when inexperienced that maybe we should not have done I know I did …had a few ■■■ twitching moments in my time…this poor guy wrong place wrong time and you gottafeelfor him …
Ours must be one of the few professions where you pass your final exam before you serve your apprenticeship. Also, modern trucks have evolved into a tool that can be used effectively by experienced drivers, unfortunately in the hands of somebody who is unaware of the consequences of high centres of gravity and the pendulum effect of consecutive short turns and the sheer dead weight of a high powered truck it will end in an accident at some point. That experience is hard won, and you don’t get it driving unladen, or partially laden along easy routes. The nest generation of drivers has to come through, but from listening to the news every day telling of us trucks turning over by the dozen and bridge strikes etc, and my own experience with the heroes in Stobarts, the training system is not working. The standard is woeful. It should also be said, that the original age limit was there for a reason. Are young people more mature now?? really?
nick2008:
There is no right hand stalk … read the past posts …
I did read the past post and you said “the other side does naf all”
Hitting the road now…
its a dumpy little one but don’t do anything don’t even move the thing is not all autos as said by others and myself don’t have a man override …
Go steady out there fella its FFFF Friday
Janos:
Ours must be one of the few professions where you pass your final exam before you serve your apprenticeship.
Not really a profession is it, it a semi-skilled employment that require a certificate, bit like needing a food safety certificate to flip burgers.
Janos:
Also, modern trucks have evolved into a tool that can be used effectively by experienced drivers, unfortunately in the hands of somebody who is unaware of the consequences of high centres of gravity and the pendulum effect of consecutive short turns and the sheer dead weight of a high powered truck it will end in an accident at some point. That experience is hard won, and you don’t get it driving unladen, or partially laden along easy routes. The nest generation of drivers has to come through, but from listening to the news every day telling of us trucks turning over by the dozen and bridge strikes etc, and my own experience with the heroes in Stobarts, the training system is not working. The standard is woeful. It should also be said, that the original age limit was there for a reason. Are young people more mature now?? really?
It seems that as the drivers was only 19, loads of people have jumped on this and decided that it was due to lack of experience and poor training and testing in the modern era. This is despite the fact we haven’t actually heard any official reason for the accident.
And reading links to posts about truck drivers who’ve turned trucks over or had crashes more than often they aren’t young drivers but older drivers, although not surprising as 40% of driver are over 50.
The age limit has been lowered for a few years now and we haven’t had a spate of 18 to 20 year olds smashing trucks up, the truth is that most of that age aren’t interested in driving trucks, can’t afford the training and if they are and can get trained it’s unlikely that they’ll get a job due to insurance costs.
It would be interesting to find out if the young driver passed his cat c in a auto!
Is this the first sign of problems stemming from deregulation in driver training?
One reason why legislation changed was because a high percentage of vehicles sold are auto’s and the trainers complained that they could not buy vehicles to train in that have at least 8 gear ratio’s!
The gear change exercise has been taken out and you do not have to demonstrate that you can use a engine retarder.
Is it right that you can get your class 1 licence at 18 by passing a test in a 12 tonne automatic truck towing a small drawbar trailer with a load of 8 tonne on it?
Still not sure my nineteen year old self was mature and aware enough to be trusted to drive a fully laden truck down a steep hill as the schools come out. Not judging the driver in the accident though, just discussing the general topics that this thread has thrown up.
nick2008:
our DAF’s they have the select on the left console between the seats ie Drive, crawler ( tortoises) then R and R1
(tortoises) the stalk only has left right main flash and dip with horn . the other side does naf all. exhaust break on the floor .
You should be able to change down using the right hand stalk
The new DAF autos will not let you use the manual mode on the stalk above 25kph.
No one on this thread knows what happened to cause the terrible accident in Bath. R.I.P. to the four people that lost their lives, and condolences to their families.
The relevant authorities will delve into the cause of the accident. My sympathy also goes out to the driver of the lorry, who young or not, didn’t set out to harm anyone. By the law of averages these terrible events happen unfortunately. A sad day for all involved.
Well Muckles you think what you like but having been driving lorries for 40yrs I and many like me consider it a PROFESSION. No wonder drivers are treated like ■■■■ if some of you take that view of the job you do. Eddie.
