Own Account Driver:
You just don’t get fifty year olds racing their Saxo round the Tesco’s car park though, do you?
Complete and utter generalisation, we get enough complaints here when the media stereotype truck drivers, so why stereotype youngsters?
There plenty of 50 years olds driving round like complete ■■■■■, and plenty of 19 years olds who’d never dream of racing their cars round a Tesco car park or any other car park.
I’ve double manned trucks across Europe and the best driver by far was only 25 years old, I felt far safer in the passenger seat with him at the wheel, than drivers twice his age who had many more years experience.
The operator does quite a bit of work in and out of Hills quarries, they wont allow overloading. The lorry probably had its’ load piled up making it look overloaded-it’s got a muck body on the back, low sided to reduce the chances of overloading. Our 8wheeler has the same type, a full load is always visible from ground level unless loaded flat by an excavator. Yes the lorry was originally a purplish blue colour, I guess it was resprayed to look like the two Wiltshire companies who they probably work for.
m1cks:
I wish people would get over this young driver prejudice. There are plenty of young drivers safely driving around but you dont hear about it because there are no incidents - I was one of them. The standard of driving isn’t the problem, it’s the mindset. This is something that can apply to people of ANY age.
^ This.The forces have been putting drivers of that age behind the wheel of trucks up to tank transporter level for decades.
So far it seems that the driver in question in this case had an acceptable record and only ended up in the type of specific circumstances which,if not caused by mechanical failure,would be expected to show up ( known ) deficiencies in the training regime,related to over reliance on and resulting over stressing of brakes,as opposed to mindset.
Armagedon:
Then you could expect that our trade press would lead on these safety issues,CM,T&D,Trucking but I doubt we would want to hold our breath for
that to happen and unless there was a big bung for another jolly I doubt the trade associations would be interested.But I expect Gas Gas is reading this…
‘come on lad,do your stuff,make a name for yourself’.
Three days ago I emailed the former DSA and VOSA press offices the following questions:
Good morning,
Can you tell me if the following topics are covered in the LGV driving test: either theory or practical, including initial DCPC acquisition:
Selection of appropriate gears for the gradient ahead
The use of engine/exhaust brakes and/or retarders and other secondary braking systems
The impact of load on the efficiency of vehicle foundation brakes when travelling down steep hills while fully laden.
Appropriate action to take in the event of foundation brake failure
Emergency stops
No answer as yet…
What worries me is that the new DVSA combines responsibilities for accident investigations and driving test standards.
The off-highway ‘controlled stop’ element of the truck driving test was, I understand, abandoned some years ago. Candidates now just have to stop by the side of the road.
Be assured that I will not let this issue slip away…and I’m going to try and do a bit more than get a story into the trade press. I have a horrible feeling that a 19-year-old kid will get hung out to dry by the establishment for just doing what he’s been taught to do.
should be there instinctively at the driver instruction stage.The problem sadly seeming to be a case of the blind leading the blind in that regard.Although yes the test would be better carried out under fully laden conditions up to the limit of the licence grade being tested with the compulsory inclusion of a severe hill descent scenario.But we already know that isn’t the case and logistics probably wouldn’t allow it.Which then obviously leaves the issue of driver instruction.In which the already known doctrine of brakes to slow gears to go applies with all the obvious implications of that in instilling an instinctive driver over reliance on brakes as opposed to correct use of gears and brakes to slow at all times.
As such it isn’t surprising that the establishment would want to cover itself by integrating the accident investigations facilities with driver standards.
As for 4) at that point there is probably nothing that will stop a runaway truck which is why there are such things as escape lanes and traps/pits which sadly can’t be there in all cases.
Own Account Driver:
You just don’t get fifty year olds racing their Saxo round the Tesco’s car park though, do you?
No, but you do get them driving trucks like total a holes
Personally if I had trucks I’d employ youngsters every time. Give them a chance and Take them on, train them properly and you’ll have a bloody good driver. Beats every other middle aged truck driver who thinks he’s gods gift to the industry, cant be told anything and wont do anything he doesn’t like the look of. Years ago in my early twenties I worked for the best coach company in London and they did exactly this and had great young drivers driving round in £250k Setras.
Some good posts in this thread despite it being a horrible tragedy for those concerned.
I agree with the lack of correct training comments, carry on GasGas, Carryfast and the like.
It is simply not right that trainees are encouraged/taught to rely on the vehicle’s brakes, the brakes to slow gears to go mantra is utter cobblers in commercial vehicles and it’s high time some bugger with some clout put a stop to this stupid idea that lorries can be driven as if they were cars.
I ask trainers to stop patting themselves on the back for their pass rates, and instead actively lobby those in charge to make changes to the training and test programs that ensure drivers are trained to control their vehicles correctly, for they blatantly are not doing so.
We may have to return to longer training periods, where competence in vehicle handling and control can again be taught.
Own Account Driver:
You just don’t get fifty year olds racing their Saxo round the Tesco’s car park though, do you?
No, but you do get them driving trucks like total a holes
Personally if I had trucks I’d employ youngsters every time. Give them a chance and Take them on, train them properly and you’ll have a bloody good driver. Beats every other middle aged truck driver who thinks he’s gods gift to the industry, cant be told anything and wont do anything he doesn’t like the look of. Years ago in my early twenties I worked for the best coach company in London and they did exactly this and had great young drivers driving round in £250k Setras.
Young drivers are more receptive to training…but it has to be the right training.
Not an instructor reciting ‘gears to go, brakes to slow’ like a bad ventriloquist.
I’ve spoken, twice, to the BBC about the rubbish they are currently broadcasting and have on their website relating to this incident. As for the newspapers…I’m often ashamed of what others in ‘my’ industry do, and this is one of those occasions.
I agree. I think the HGV test is a load of old bobbins as is the fact too many instructors train people to pass and nothing more. I find the fact he is 19 heartbreaking to be honest. If I were him and at that age I very much doubt I’d ever go near a lorry ever again
Juddian:
We may have to return to longer training periods, where competence in vehicle handling and control can again be taught.
When were these longer training periods that taught handling and control?
I passed my test in 1992, driving a Ford Cargo with a 30ft flatbed trailer on the back after 2 weeks training. My brother passed in 1988 with a similar set-up, so a lot of others on here must have passed under similar circumstances and have basically learned their job out on the road. I believe they are now testing with full size set-ups and going to going to be loaded as well soon, which is the way it should be. But really to get a driver ready it needs to be more of an apprenticeship, that can cover many aspects of driving and loading throughout the year. but that will not happen as it will be to expensive for the industry.
Juddian:
It is simply not right that trainees are encouraged/taught to rely on the vehicle’s brakes, the brakes to slow gears to go mantra is utter cobblers in commercial vehicles and it’s high time some bugger with some clout put a stop to this stupid idea that lorries can be driven as if they were cars.
With the evolution of automatic gearboxes on HGVs i am afraid that the young drivers coming into the industry today have absolutely no idea of how to control a fully laden HGV down a steep hill.
Don’t care what these so called “modern instructors” say today you cant beat letting the engine take the strain by changing down, exhaust brake etc etc they are relying far to much on technology by just telling them to use only the brakes.
Also Juddian you have hit the nail on the head as regarding the idea that lorries can be driven as if they were cars you only have to watch at some roundabouts the way some drivers throw them into the bend drastically leaning over, no wonder why we have so many rollovers nowadays.
Juddian:
It is simply not right that trainees are encouraged/taught to rely on the vehicle’s brakes, the brakes to slow gears to go mantra is utter cobblers in commercial vehicles and it’s high time some bugger with some clout put a stop to this stupid idea that lorries can be driven as if they were cars.
With the evolution of automatic gearboxes on HGVs i am afraid that the young drivers coming into the industry today have absolutely no idea of how to control a fully laden HGV down a steep hill.
Don’t care what these so called “modern instructors” say today you cant beat letting the engine take the strain by changing down, exhaust brake etc etc they are relying far to much on technology by just telling them to use only the brakes.
Also Juddian you have hit the nail on the head as regarding the idea that lorries can be driven as if they were cars you only have to watch at some roundabouts the way some drivers throw them into the bend drastically leaning over and you wonder why we have so many rollovers nowadays.
And some FULLY AUTOMATIC trucks canNOT be over ridden so the only way to change down is by how ■■
I am 42 and only been a class 2 driver for a year. I am a recent member to this forum and after being a soldier,business owner and many other things (mainly due to not listening at school and being a “disruptive influence” lol),I would like to commend all the drivers involved in this discussion.
In my view the thoughts are positive,respectful and I am proud to be a HGV driver if you lot are representative of the breed!!
Juddian:
We may have to return to longer training periods, where competence in vehicle handling and control can again be taught.
When were these longer training periods that taught handling and control?
Maybe i was lucky, i was taught by one of the really old school, the other trainers there mentioned he won ‘lorry driver of the year’ 3 years running when still a full time driver.
Traction (wet greasy hill starts), gear control (serious subject that) and manoeuvering featured highly on his agenda, none of this two turns when you see the second cone bollox, his idea of learning to manoeuver was to set out a chicane of umpteen cones you had to zig zag forwards through, and he wasn’t happy till you could reverse the route too, made the test reverse a piece of cake.
Brakes to slow gears to go hadn’t been dreamed up by some shiny seat twerp then, so slowing down on the gears was THE way to drive…no exhauster on a V8 Perkins Mastiff, and you wentt from crawler to top and back down again every single day in a full gearchanging exercise.
I’m eternally grateful to Jimmy Morrison of Export and General, Dunstable, driving school.
There was time to teach you lorry control on a full 10 day course.
I had an interesting chat with a really nice young driver (tanker) tipping back to back with me this week, he’d been driving two years and he still shudders at how unprepared for and terrified he was of the real world of lorries after passing his test, particularly the manoeuvering instruction he described so well which was nothing short of a useless exercise as now skill whatsoever was required, just turn so much when you see such and such and when something lines up with X turn so many truns back again, utter bollox and the trainer who does that should be ashamed of themselves.
