Hi all.This is merely curiosity,but living here in Sweden which,according to recent surveys is the most popular country in Europe for asylum seekers to come to.I was just wondering how it works with the recent additions to Europe as we are constantly told that they are developing rapidly and the economies are improving in leaps and bounds.Are they as popular for immigrants,if so why and if not,why not.
OK,we know that ‘‘immigrants’’ first seem to land in southern Europe,but then they seem only to go north and west,never east.Why is this.When i travel to Eastern Europe i never seem to see any Syrians,Iraqis,Somalians or such.
Before any EE drivers accuse me of being racist my question is based on wanting to know why the UN and European governments dont spread people more around in Europe.It seems strange to see Somalian people here in Gällivare,people coming from a country with temps of pl 50c to here with nearly 6 months of up to -45c.
There was actually a very interesting programme on Radio 4 the other day (cue a rant about the BBC anti EE agenda) that talked about immigration to Poland from the far east, places such as Vietnam. They talked to an interesting cross section of normal Polish people and a few if them had, shall we say, fairly strong views on immigration into their country. Certainly made me laugh.
turnip:
The problem is orys thinks and says they are anti ee when they are not !
For instance this thread. Look back through and nobody has said anything anti ee until orys pops up and hijacks the thread as usual. The use of the word Latvian was purely factual but orys well polished paranoia can’t accept that and away we go. I think he also has a very healthy delusion of grandeur.
Actually I just said that when EE nationality is involved, it gets a lot of attention here, and the nationality issue is stressed, while when other nationalities are involved, there is not even purely factual mentioning of the nationality of the driver.
Compare:
“Drunk Latvian kills 2”
“M3 blocked due to coach accident”.
Before I shared my opinion here, I messed around with the search engine on Trucknet and confirmed that my observation is valid. So I shared that observation here, not aiming particularly at OP but as general observation altough there was some reason why Inselaffe decided that nationality of the driver is worth stressing - in original article and the movie, as far as my leftovers of the German language allow me to understand it, the nationality of the driver is mentioned somewhere later only.
Of course it’s not only trucknet thing, the same attitude you have in papers such as Sun or Daily Mirror, therefore many of you just get so used to it that you don’t even notice. But this attitude helps to paint Eastern Europe in unfair light, as the example below will demonstrate:
switchlogic:
There was actually a very interesting programme on Radio 4 the other day (cue a rant about the BBC anti EE agenda) that talked about immigration to Poland from the far east, places such as Vietnam. They talked to an interesting cross section of normal Polish people and a few if them had, shall we say, fairly strong views on immigration into their country. Certainly made me laugh.
This programme, that I happened to be listening to as well, is still available online: bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pcs5q so you can listen for yourself and make your own mind. Incidentally the Vietnamese family Switchlogic remembered were only one example of migrants. Program starts of with conversation with a Britishman (oh the irony!) and his French wife who moved to Poland.
As I remember the interviews with Poles (some scholars, members of the goverment, trade union spokesperson, some business people (i think) and some students ), most people have no issues with the new migration. There were of course some people who were cautious about certain issues related to emigration (if I remember correctly a Trade Union spokesperson - which should not be surprising to anyone I guess - but even he is not against it in general). If I remember correctly there was just one voice of some high school student that could be considered as a voice against it. The program was made fairly and was showing a honest picture of the issue, so I even recomended it to Harry Monk, as he always asks me “what would Poles do if their faced immigration on the bigger scale”.
Switchlogic again proved my point perfectly: from the whole 29 minute programme the interview with some stupid racist high school student that lasted 30 sec was the only thing he thought it’s worth to mention when it comes to Poles’ opinions on migration.
hutpik:
OK,we know that ‘‘immigrants’’ first seem to land in southern Europe,but then they seem only to go north and west,never east.Why is this.When i travel to Eastern Europe i never seem to see any Syrians,Iraqis,Somalians or such.
Before any EE drivers accuse me of being racist my question is based on wanting to know why the UN and European governments dont spread people more around in Europe.It seems strange to see Somalian people here in Gällivare,people coming from a country with temps of pl 50c to here with nearly 6 months of up to -45c.
It’s a good question, I’ll try to answer to it.
Immigrants tend to join their folks that are already there. Immigration from Africa, Middle East and countries like India or Pakistan to Western European countries is a very old thing. Many of them had colonies, so the community of colour people was always big there (Britain is a good example), other countries - like Scandinavia - take migrants for long, long time compared to EE countries. So if you are migrant who just sailed your boat from Libya and managed to land in Italy, you will be more likely to go to Sweden, where propably cousin of your brother’s in law’ cousin is already living and can help you to settle and even if not, there will be some organisations for your nationality and in last resort you can just go to Mosque and get help there. It is also important, that many of them speak English, French or sometimes German, so it’s easier for them to stay in the germanic language circle.
Eastern Europe never had any significant role in colonialism in exotic places and during most of the ■■ century was cut away from western Spheres of influence, so apart of some odd African students from that few countries that were maintainig good relations with Soviet Union, dark skinned people were very rare sight in Eastern Europe (altough it changes slowly, for example in today’s parliament Poland have two black MPs among 460 total. I think it’s not bad as for the country that is in about 98% made of Poles, Silesians and Kashubians (a small minorities native to Poland) and nationals of surrounding countries - Germans, Czechs, Lithuanians, Ukrainians etc. that were always living there).
But we do have a big influx of Vietnamese people - they come just as the African people come to Western Europe. There was some Vietnamese community in Poland, as we had some ties with communist Vietnam, so these who are already here, bring their friends and families - just like, for example, Pakistani people do in England. For the same reason we have some Chinese people or Tibetans. We also have quite a lot of migrants from the Caucas: in Poland for example there is very strong Chechen community. But these people are white. Lot of migration comes also from other ex-soviet republic, but these people are Slavs so when walking the street you are completely unable to distinguish them from locals just by looking at them.
But as I said it is changing. Every time I go to my native town, I see more and more kebab shops and exotic take aways and today Black person on the street would not attract too much attention as it was quite common even 15 years ago. My former flatmate is now married to a Turk and they run kebab shop…
Jesus, I give up. Clearly very intelligent but sadly overshadowed by his massive ego, and the fact he only listens to what he wants to hear. Ie stuff that allows him to further his ‘we’re so persecuted’ agenda. And for that reason I’m out, even Carryfast listens more than he does.
HI all.As a person living here i find that Orys is sadly mistaken in his statement that ‘you are more likely to go to Sweden as your brothers cousins nephews uncles donkey lives there’.The Swedish government takes a certain amount of asylum seekers[read economic migrants]though its obligation to the EEC.They don’t arrive in Europe and say 'i want to go to[wherever].As to them having relatives all over,this is a fallacy.If there is family in a certain country most of the time it is long established family who emigrated in the past when it was easier and there were more labour shortages. The Immigration service here will designate a community which[in their opinion]has space to assimilate them.
As for them speaking other languages,this is rubbish.Most of them cannot even speak their own language fluently,only their local dialect.The majority of immigrants speaking English,French or German either come from countries which have had a colonial influence in the past or have interacted with people speaking those languages.
hutpik:
HI all.As a person living here i find that Orys is sadly mistaken in his statement that ‘you are more likely to go to Sweden as your brothers cousins nephews uncles donkey lives there’.The Swedish government takes a certain amount of asylum seekers[read economic migrants]though its obligation to the EEC.They don’t arrive in Europe and say 'i want to go to[wherever].As to them having relatives all over,this is a fallacy.If there is family in a certain country most of the time it is long established family who emigrated in the past when it was easier and there were more labour shortages. The Immigration service here will designate a community which[in their opinion]has space to assimilate them.
And somehow they decided that the place to accomodate them is my uncle’s quarter in Goeteborg where over last 20 years the whole huge several-generations families settled. 
On a more serious note - you are propably right, Swedish government tries to keep them under control, but you asked how is that they are not going to Eastern Europe, not how the problem of immigration is dealt with in Sweden. On that second subject you have, for obvious reason, much more knowledge than I do, but I think my explanation of wider subject is valid. The Swedish govermnet has obligations to EEC to take immigrants and asylum seekers, but it was well known for years for being very open to them - lot of Polish people during communist time emigrated there as well and were warmly welcomed (for example my Uncle I mentioned).
And apart from that, It does not work that Britain says “we have too much imigrants, Sweden, come, fullfill your obligation to EEC and take a milion or two from us”.
As for having family or relatives: this is how it works, and I am a good example of this myself. I came to Scotland because my friends were living in Edinburgh and I can couch surf with them for two weeks before I got myself a job and my own place to stay. This is how it works in Vietnamese and Chechen people in Poland therefore I can’t see why it should be different for anyone else (unless we speak about someone in really good financial situation who moves because he or she fancy to do so, or for some highly educated specialist that gets the good job offer in another country).
As for them speaking other languages,this is rubbish.Most of them cannot even speak their own language fluently,only their local dialect.The majority of immigrants speaking English,French or German either come from countries which have had a colonial influence in the past or have interacted with people speaking those languages.
Most of them, yes. But some of them, as you rightly pointed, do speak languages and I had these in mind.
Do you know what these days I have come to dread any thread with Orys as a contributer, there was a time when he was up there in a very select group of Eastern Europeans that I would listen to what they said because it was usually reasonably well informed and on subject, these days I’m not interested anymore. Orys do yerself a favour and go back to Poland you will like the people there. There was an article in The Mail the other day bemoaning the fact that Polish citys were dying on their arse because of mass immigration to the west, Lodz was the main example. If not for our sake Orys, for the sake of your country and forebears be like ET and go home rather than alienating a native population
Gunner Til I Die:
Do you know what these days I have come to dread any thread with Orys as a contributer, there was a time when he was up there in a very select group of Eastern Europeans that I would listen to what they said because it was usually reasonably well informed and on subject, these days I’m not interested anymore. Orys do yerself a favour and go back to Poland you will like the people there. There was an article in The Mail the other day bemoaning the fact that Polish citys were dying on their arse because of mass immigration to the west, Lodz was the main example. If not for our sake Orys, for the sake of your country and forebears be like ET and go home rather than alienating a native population
I saw that article, it was in Sun as well:
thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe … itain.html
Do we talk about the same one?
Well, this article is crap. Åódź is dying, because it was living on textile industry, it was like business monoculture there, it was called “Polish Manchester”, but while Manchester developed some other kinds of business as well and survived, Åódź did not when 1989 came and cheap products from Far East killed its factories. Other thing is that Åódź is too close to Warsaw and simply Warsaw ■■■■■ all businesses and specialists from there. Other big cities - like Kraków, WrocÅ‚aw, PoznaÅ„, GdaÅ„sk - are doing well, but you won’t read about this in The Sun.
The pictures from Piotrkowska street so empty are very hard to get - it’s the main city street, something like the Buchanan Street in Glasgow. Despite that Piotrkowska compared to Buchanan Street is indeed ugly (a whole city is ugly IMHO), it’s very hard to see it so empty as there is still lots of businesses, shops, restaurants and also people living there. I bet the journalist had to try very hard and went there on early Sunday morning or something to make that pic. And as for this picture of empty building covered with graphitti - I can easily find similar places in London or Glasgow. In other words: the whole article is a bit tendentious and it aims at exactly the very reaction as you presented: “go home Poles, if not for our sake, for your own country sake”. But I won’t go home, because of some poorly written article on Sun, and certainly there is no wealth on Earth that would make me move to Åódź, it’s one of the most ugly cities in Poland 
In other words: if my opinion still matters for you a bit: I don’t recomend The Sun and such as the sources of information on Eastern Europe.
Orys did I say The Sun? If you read the words very slowly you will see I said The Mail, also known as The Daily Mail. Regarding Wroclaw, Krakow and Posnan the last time I travelled on a regular basis to these cities they were not doing to well either, the older generation were still very much in evidence but most of the youngsters were hopping on Euro-bus and heading West 
So it’s not just all of us that’s wrong about everything polish. It’s all the journalists at the sun and all the journalists at the daily mail. And just throw in insulting all the people of lodz too.
I used to go to lodz to the Gillette factory. Strange as the only industry is textiles. It looked exactly like every other polish city I went to. Dour and rundown.
What he fails to see is he’s just as reactionary in his views with just as much an agenda to push as any tabloid paper. He just has a smaller audience. But, who cares, it’s…
BOWIE DAY!!!
So let’s all go and enjoy some Bowie. Cue Orys telling us he ripped off a Polish artist…Or thatBowie is rubbish and Polish nu-rave Folk music is much better
Gunner Til I Die:
Orys did I say The Sun?
Gunner Til I Die: did I say you said “The Sun”? If you read the words wvery slowly you will see that I said that I seen article on the same subject in the Sun and asked you if we talk about the same one. It is very common that papers run the same story after one of them have written them, if the papers are owned by the same company (of which I am not sure if that’s the case here) it is even possible that they run exactly the same text word to word.
Turnip: of course there are some other factories in Åódź, but as I said the industry in Åódź was very focused on textiles so after dominant part of the industry is down, small number of businesses of other types cannot help a lot.
And of course, if you go by truck you don’t go to the nicest part of the cities, so you might have the opinion you have. It’s like I judged Glasgow by visiting warehouses in Govan, Kinning Park and Tradeston…
Here you have a first results of the google image search for Wrocław:
google.co.uk/search?q=wroc% … 80&bih=938
and Åódź:
google.co.uk/search?q=wroc% … 80&bih=938
For me the difference can be seen at first glance: Åódź is not as nice looking city as WrocÅ‚aw and this is my opinion.
So now if I say “Åódź is not beautiful city” I am offending Åódziers, yes?
And btw: I never told “all of you are wrong about Poland”. I just told that this article is wrong, and it seems that I am not the only one who thinks it:
thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/1234 … un-tabloid
I told even in this thread, slightly up, that the BBC reportage recomended by Luke was good (despite it was showing some racist idiots). Whats the difference? The Sun article is written for the thesis, BBC tries to paint fair picture.
Switchlogic: enjoy:
incidentally Bowie used a fragment of Polish folk band recording in that song
switchlogic:
What he fails to see is he’s just as reactionary in his views with just as much an agenda to push as any tabloid paper. He just has a smaller audience. But, who cares, it’s…BOWIE DAY!!!
So let’s all go and enjoy some Bowie. Cue Orys telling us he ripped off a Polish artist…Or thatBowie is rubbish and Polish nu-rave Folk music is much better
Crank it up
Can’t stand Bowie
p.s don’t think Gilette would consider themselves small lol
Gunner Til I Die:
p.s don’t think Gilette would consider themselves small lol
No, but their factory in Åódź would not change the fortune of the town overnight
They employ roughly 2000 people there. And more at the packaging facility.
turnip:
They employ roughly 2000 people there. And more at the packaging facility.
Still it’s just a drop in the sea for 700 000 strong city that lost around 80 000 jobs in textile industry…
Don’t take me wrong, there are some new investments in Åódź, but the town is not as attractive to investors as other towns and propably Åodź will never be as important industry centre as it used to be any more… I would compare Åódź situation to Detroit in the US: still big industry, but the town’s size dropped in half when people migrated to other parts of the USA.
Look back through and nobody has said anything anti ee until orys pops up and hijacks the thread as usual.
Anyone else not bother reading anything Orys posts anymore ?
What was this thread about again ?