D.Thompson:
I am not saying DCPC is to blame i am showing DCPC has not made the slightest bit of difference in fact the figures have risen year on year.
There are other factors which have contributed significantly to the rise; smart motorways, an explosion in the number of cyclists using the road and an overall increase in traffic levels being the main ones.
The fact remains that whatever the cynics might say, DCPC was a genuine attempt to raise standards in the industry. And by God did they need raising!
I don’t believe anyone taking DCPC is less likely to kill someone on the road than anyone not doing it if you can prove deaths on the road since 2009 have lowered significantly due to DCPC i will gladly take that back.
The government doesn’t care for making it exam based. In fact, that would be last thing they’d want because they’d have the RHA and logistics.com on tbe phone every hour of the day bleating about no drivers because they’ve all failed the exam. The government doesn’t care for safety - all they care about is maximum income to their coffers, which is the reason it was introduced in the first place. The fact that it is simply attendance based proves this. If it was about truly about safety and competence then it would be exam based, like pretty much every other profession. This is why it’s a waste of time because at the coal face end of things it changes nothing. Thick [zb]s are still driving and behaving like thick [zb]s.
CPC should prepare a new driver for all those things you don’t learn when you take your test, and then to keep drivers up to date on things that change over time.
Instead you can sit 5 manual handling courses and crack on not having the first idea about anything that will help you avoid fines, points or jail. You know, useful lorry stuff like tacho rules, load security, daily checks that involve more than building some air up.
The fact remains that whatever the cynics might say, DCPC was a genuine attempt to raise standards in the industry. And by God did they need raising! quote sidevalve…
you have been shown the proof that it did not work so stop banging your t/m, trainer,recruiter drum FOR ALL OUR SAKES…
DCPCFML:
The fact that it is simply attendance based proves this. If it was about truly about safety and competence then it would be exam based, like pretty much every other profession.
This is why it’s a waste of time because at the coal face end of things it changes nothing.
Spot on, someone said in another thread if they introduced tests they would lose 40% of drivers and they know that.
Why 7 hours x 5 days how did they decide that is the right amount of training?
We all know they could condense the day into 4 hours by cutting out the pointless tests etc (its not test based) but they pad it out to make it up to the required 7 hours, this is why so many drivers hate it.
If the trend carries on 40% may be a bit of a low prediction -
The majority of CPC modules actually do last 3.5 hours, during a 7 hour day you will do two separate modules (for example, manual handling then health and safety).
You should be grateful the course lasts 7 hours, normally 8.5 once you include breaks. If it lasted 4, as you suggest, how many bosses would be demanding drivers get behind the wheel after finishing the course? Because I know plenty who would do exactly that
fridger:
CPC should prepare a new driver for all those things you don’t learn when you take your test, and then to keep drivers up to date on things that change over time.
Instead you can sit 5 manual handling courses and crack on not having the first idea about anything that will help you avoid fines, points or jail. You know, useful lorry stuff like tacho rules, load security, daily checks that involve more than building some air up.
You can’t sit the same module 5 times any more, that changed last year. And even when you could, if you choose to do the same thing 5 times, then complain about it being a waste of time, then who exactly is to blame for that?
Terry Cooksey:
The majority of CPC modules actually do last 3.5 hours, during a 7 hour day you will do two separate modules (for example, manual handling then health and safety).
We all know they could reduce the time simply cut out all the waffle “I know a bloke that didn’t secure his load and it fell off bla bla” just get on with the course we don’t need your examples it adds nothing other than time and the mock tests that we don’t need to do because its attendance based, its all geared to fill the time.
You should be grateful the course lasts 7 hours, normally 8.5 once you include breaks. If it lasted 4, as you suggest, how many bosses would be demanding drivers get behind the wheel after finishing the course? Because I know plenty who would do exactly that
So lets carry on with this nonsense just because some bosses may send you out after the course has finished.
By all means throw in a ‘refresher’ maybe one day a year but in it’s current guise it’s clearly proving N.F.F.P and keeping a sizeable body of ex-lorryers, with valuable and hard-won experience staying well away from the dystopian nightmare of present day Logistics Solutioning? How can this be addressed ?
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Simple, honest answer? Some people need to pull their heads from their arses, stop thinking they have attained a level of skill so close to perfection that the mere suggestion of having to take part in any form of extra training is such an insult so as to force them to leave not only a job, but an entire industry
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Yep up to a point but it’s proved a sizeable enough straw for many old camels back’s to endure. It’s a fiasco pure and simple, neither use nor ornament. Patronising, useless box-ticking drivel achieving south of sod all. An obvious gravy train to all the grifters concerned, it needs to be canned and pronto.
Terry Cooksey:
The majority of CPC modules actually do last 3.5 hours, during a 7 hour day you will do two separate modules (for example, manual handling then health and safety).
We all know they could reduce the time simply cut out all the waffle “I know a bloke that didn’t secure his load and it fell off bla bla” just get on with the course we don’t need your examples it adds nothing other than time and the mock tests that we don’t need to do because its attendance based, its all geared to fill the time.
You should be grateful the course lasts 7 hours, normally 8.5 once you include breaks. If it lasted 4, as you suggest, how many bosses would be demanding drivers get behind the wheel after finishing the course? Because I know plenty who would do exactly that
So lets carry on with this nonsense just because some bosses may send you out after the course has finished.
Sounds like all of the instructors you’ve had have been a bit crap, but also that you would be a crap person to have on a course, bringing all of this negativity.
Instructors have to bring a degree of interactivity to the course, that’s how they can tell who is learning, or even just paying attention. If they just stood at the front and rattled off facts or regulations, yes it would go quicker, but would seem longer, and even less people would listen.
Instructors don’t want to just spend 7 hours a day talking to a sea of blank faces, getting other people to participate gives them (and their voice) a much needed break. Despite what you might think, it’s not easy being an instructor, and it’s even harder to be a good one.
front and rattled off facts or regulations, yes it would go quicker, but would seem longer, and even less people would listen.
Utter ■■■■■■■■ if i know i am only there for 4 hours i am more likely to take notice if i know i am thre for 7 hours having to sit there listening to the guys life experiences of everything he is discussing i am going to switch off, if he wants to save his voice box simply cut the irrelevant waffles.
Terry Cooksey:
The majority of CPC modules actually do last 3.5 hours, during a 7 hour day you will do two separate modules (for example, manual handling then health and safety).
We all know they could reduce the time simply cut out all the waffle “I know a bloke that didn’t secure his load and it fell off bla bla” just get on with the course we don’t need your examples it adds nothing other than time and the mock tests that we don’t need to do because its attendance based, its all geared to fill the time.
You should be grateful the course lasts 7 hours, normally 8.5 once you include breaks. If it lasted 4, as you suggest, how many bosses would be demanding drivers get behind the wheel after finishing the course? Because I know plenty who would do exactly that
So lets carry on with this nonsense just because some bosses may send you out after the course has finished.
Sounds like all of the instructors you’ve had have been a bit crap, but also that you would be a crap person to have on a course, bringing all of this negativity.
Instructors have to bring a degree of interactivity to the course, that’s how they can tell who is learning, or even just paying attention. If they just stood at the front and rattled off facts or regulations, yes it would go quicker, but would seem longer, and even less people would listen.
Instructors don’t want to just spend 7 hours a day talking to a sea of blank faces, getting other people to participate gives them (and their voice) a much needed break. Despite what you might think, it’s not easy being an instructor, and it’s even harder to be a good one.
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I would rather hear from blokes with real-time experiences, especially Euro-vets. Chaps who’ve done serious lorrying across the Alps in all conditions, weathers, they would be the perfect antidote to latter day corporate-solutioning, toytown trucking boreathons where pompous H&S BS takes precedence over life n death, blood,sweat and tears situations that underpins serious 3&6 day hauls in Europe. Done a couple of years miself and one year of that game l can safely say equals 5 years over here in terms of demands and character building experiences placed on drivers. Especially fridges Veterans don’t need some smarmball, pencil-neck, browbeating everyone to death with their scintillating routines. The only thing l learned from my last caper was the financial advantages gained by flogging womens used smalls on E-Bay. I sheet thee not. Not followed it up l hasten to add It’s too disruptive, teaches jack and although an interesting concept it has failed to be painted black in terms of effectiveness imho.
m.a.n rules:
you have been shown the proof that it did not work so stop banging your t/m, trainer,recruiter drum FOR ALL OUR SAKES…
Gladly; when you stop banging your “I’ve been doing this job for so long that I know everything” drum" in return.
I haven’t been shown any proof of the sort actually; if you’re referring to the accident graphs, you could also interpolate from them that the introduction of “smart motorways” has reduced HGV-involved fatalities when we all know full well that this is definitely not the case. The actual number of annual HGV fatalities is still relatively small compared to accidents which don’t involve them, so I’d suggest that this graph severely distorts the true picture. Lies, damned lies and statistics etc.
Veterans don’t need some smarmball, pencil-neck, browbeating everyone to death with their scintillating routines. The only thing l learned from my last caper was the financial advantages gained by flogging womens used smalls on E-Bay. I sheet thee not. Not followed it up l hasten to add It’s too disruptive, teaches jack and although an interesting concept it has failed to be painted black in terms of effectiveness imho.
m.a.n rules:
you have been shown the proof that it did not work so stop banging your t/m, trainer,recruiter drum FOR ALL OUR SAKES…
Gladly; when you stop banging your “I’ve been doing this job for so long that I know everything” drum" in return.
I haven’t been shown any proof of the sort actually; if you’re referring to the accident graphs, you could also interpolate from them that the introduction of “smart motorways” has reduced HGV-involved fatalities when we all know full well that this is definitely not the case. The actual number of annual HGV fatalities is still relatively small compared to accidents which don’t involve them, so I’d suggest that this graph severely distorts the true picture. Lies, damned lies and statistics etc.
Can i ask why you why if DCPC is such a great thing drivers hate it so much and if it was voluntary the vast majority wouldn’t do it?
D.Thompson:
Can i ask why you why if DCPC is such a great thing drivers hate it so much and if it was voluntary the vast majority wouldn’t do it?
Of course they wouldn’t do it. There are various reasons, not listed in any particular order of importance;
It involves a day sitting in an office atmosphere; drivers do not like sitting in offices, that’s largely why they’re drivers.
It can seem repetitive and pointless. The more so if the trainer and the provider haven’t supplied a good course which at least tries to be interesting.
It can end up covering stuff that you don’t need to know, or at least you THINK you don’t need to know. Problem with set training is that this can be unavoidable, and sometimes the “unnecessary” stuff is merely padding to fill out the mandatory seven hours. This can lead to the common perception that you’ve done the same course two or three years running, even if you haven’t.
Some drivers have to pay for it out of their own pocket; I don’t know if they can claim the cost back against their income tax, but if they can’t perhaps the rules could be changed so that they can.
With some companies, by necessity you end up doing it on a Saturday, eating up your free time.
Some companies don’t pay you at all for the hours spent doing it; this is plain wrong and they should be forced to, at the appropriate rate for the day spent doing it.
There is, regrettably, a vociferous ■■■■■■■■■ of drivers who think they have seen it all and know it all. My personal observation is that these in practice tend to be the ones who keep on making elementary mistakes, particularly with tacho stuff like making manual entries correctly.
I’ve said before, DCPC has its faults and there is much room for improvement both in the delivery of it and the content. It’s not perfect by any means but it certainly ain’t going to go away any time soon no matter how much we ■■■■ and whinge about it. My current boss told me when I started that he only does the courses which bring him the most benefit, namely tachograph law, First Aid, and the 14 hours benefit gained from doing ADR courses. The latter means that he effectively gets an extra two day’s work out of the drivers to offset the five they spend on the course. That to me seems a sensible idea, which perhaps more companies should adopt.
I can however safely say that I’ve never done a DCPC course where I haven’t learned something, no matter how trivial; or more likely been put right on something I thought I did know correctly. Then again I live by the mantra that every day is a school day. Last one I did, just before I left ForFarmers at the end of July, was in our local rugby club; decent buffet laid on for lunch, British Lions match on the big screen telly after the course and the boss bought a round of beers on the company tab for those who wanted to stay on after and watch the game. Perhaps that’s the way to go!
Sidevalve:
Of course they wouldn’t do it. There are various reasons, not listed in any particular order of importance;
It involves a day sitting in an office atmosphere; drivers do not like sitting in offices, that’s largely why they’re drivers.
Just to add to that point, plenty of places offer a First Aid Course as DCPC approved, sometimes even a Fire Course, these can be a bit less office-bound, but the extra activities, such as CPR on a resuci-dummy, seem to be even more off-putting to drivers than just sitting on their butts
Similarly the FORS-required Safe Urban Driving, where you get to spend half the day out in the fresh air on a bike, I jumped at the chance to use that as one of my 7 hour blocks, but there’s plenty who’d rather be stuck inside the classroom.
It involves a day sitting in an office atmosphere; drivers do not like sitting in offices, that’s largely why they’re drivers.
I doubt many drivers when considering applying for a jobs thought what can i do that doesn’t involve sitting in an office i know i didn’t its not about sitting in an office its about sitting for 7 hours listening to the same old same old you have heard several times before.
It can seem repetitive and pointless. The more so if the trainer and the provider haven’t supplied a good course which at least tries to be interesting.
It is on the whole pointless its not tailored to the job the drivers do, a guy comes to our place knowing we all drive bin wagons yet we have to sit through loading safely, drivers hours (we use books) and other stuff its no wonder drivers hate it so much.
It can end up covering stuff that you don’t need to know, or at least you THINK you don’t need to know. Problem with set training is that this can be unavoidable, and sometimes the “unnecessary” stuff is merely padding to fill out the mandatory seven hours. This can lead to the common perception that you’ve done the same course two or three years running, even if you haven’t.
I mentioned this above and as i have mentioned elsewhere the hours need to be reduced there is no need to do 7 hours other than they said its 7 hours x 5 days.
Some drivers have to pay for it out of their own pocket; I don’t know if they can claim the cost back against their income tax, but if they can’t perhaps the rules could be changed so that they can.
I doubt many drivers have to pay so the vast number of those complaining about DCPC are doing it for other reasons.
With some companies, by necessity you end up doing it on a Saturday, eating up your free time.
We do this but we get paid a full days overtime at time and a half so i can put up with that.
Some companies don’t pay you at all for the hours spent doing it; this is plain wrong and they should be forced to, at the appropriate rate for the day spent doing it.
I couldn’t agree more.
There is, regrettably, a vociferous ■■■■■■■■■ of drivers who think they have seen it all and know it all. My personal observation is that these in practice tend to be the ones who keep on making elementary mistakes, particularly with tacho stuff like making manual entries correctly.
I have no way of knowing if that is true or not maybe if the course was more relevant to the drivers job was not repeated (this happened several times when i did my 5 day block) and the hours were cut these vociferous ■■■■■■■■■ of drivers would have a little less dread about doing DCPC and wouldn’t be so negative about it.
CPC is just a gravy train. You pay, and it fills up government coffers.
I did my CPC online during the pandemic. One learning centre gave me the credit for doing nothing because their trainer was off sick, another showed barely related TV excerpts from top-gear and fifth gear. Another trainer only had a class 2 licence and an irrational hatred for cyclists. I was new to digital tachos, so I was able to learning something about that, which was of limited use.
It could however be worthwhile, if there was a proper syllabus. As it is they allow different training providers to write their own material which then ends up a joke with standards all over the place.
Veterans don’t need some smarmball, pencil-neck, browbeating everyone to death with their scintillating routines. The only thing l learned from my last caper was the financial advantages gained by flogging womens used smalls on E-Bay. I sheet thee not. Not followed it up l hasten to add 
It’s too disruptive, teaches jack and although an interesting concept it has failed to be painted black in terms of effectiveness imho. 
