There are plenty of aspects of this industry that I can get all bent out of shape over, however the DCPC is not one of them. I wish luck to those who hope for its demise, but I fear that you are ■■■■■■■ into the wind.
Conor:
Build5:
So what’s the problem with CPC?I think I’m hearing two sides (correct me if I’m wrong?)
I left school with no qualifications. I drive a truck. It’s unskilled labour. Why do I need to sit through CPC
CPC is too basic. It has no pass/fail element. It should be harder and require more knowledge to pass.
Is driving a truck an unskilled job that should require no training beyond the DVSA LGV test?
Driving the truck doesn’t require training beyond the DVSA LGV test. However learning how to load it, how to secure loads, how to use a tacho, comply with drivers hours regs does require training beyond making the thing move forwards and backwards.
In respect to both points the fact we have drivers who’ve been doing the job quarter of a century or more still not grasping the basics of drivers hours regs, for example thinking that if you do a 15hr duty and take 11hrs off you’ve not had a reduced daily rest, despite running under EU regs all of that time and most likely doing two DCPC 35hr stints by now then clearly that answers why you need to do 1 and why you also need to do 2.
And not forgetting map-reading when it was a component of the job. A definite skill of itself. It’s a very uniquely skilled job combining the separate elements and having the stamina,judgement and capability to carry it out. Skills and bloody hard ones to perfect until you, after many years,reach that mountain top of confidence where it’s a shelling peas exercise. cognitive dissonance kicks in and those blood,sweat and tears years are long- forgotten (strike up something from Elgar’s repetoire) 
Map reading certainly is a skill. Map reading an upside down map drawn into the dirt on your drivers door whilst in motion takes it to a whole new level. 
Conor:
Driving the truck doesn’t require training beyond the DVSA LGV test. However learning how to load it, how to secure loads, how to use a tacho, comply with drivers hours regs does require training beyond making the thing move forwards and backwards.In respect to both points the fact we have drivers who’ve been doing the job quarter of a century or more still not grasping the basics of drivers hours regs, for example thinking that if you do a 15hr duty and take 11hrs off you’ve not had a reduced daily rest, despite running under EU regs all of that time and most likely doing two DCPC 35hr stints by now then clearly that answers why you need to do 1 and why you also need to do 2.
My sentiments exactly, there’s plenty of posts every week on TN proving that point.
People keep saying it’s a “tax”, but most drivers I know have it paid for by their employers.
the maoster:
I wish luck to those who hope for its demise, but I fear that you are ■■■■■■■ into the wind.
You have only got to calculate what the DVSA earn in fees to realise it is unlikely to be going anywhere soon.
From my last post, any takers?
Could someone explain why you can drive a 3.5 ton vehicle without DCPC but anything above requires it?
Could i also ask how all the drivers managed before this ■■■■■■■■ was introduced were there millions of clueless drivers on the road with badly loaded wagons killing hundreds of people every year of course there wasn’t, as mentioned earlier in the thread its a stealth tax and that is all it is.
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D.Thompson:
From my last post, any takers?Could someone explain why you can drive a 3.5 ton vehicle without DCPC but anything above requires it?
Could i also ask how all the drivers managed before this ■■■■■■■■ was introduced were there millions of clueless drivers on the road with badly loaded wagons killing hundreds of people every year of course there wasn’t, as mentioned earlier in the thread its a stealth tax and that is all it is.
.
The simple answer to your second question is yes there were; well, perhaps not hundreds of deaths but enough to make people sit up and realise that there was a problem. And DCPC was one of the measures taken to (hopefully) reduce the number of deaths and injuries.
Unless it’s a disaster that really stands out (Hillsborough perhaps being an example) the public memory is remarkably short regarding accidental deaths. Unless somebody regularly tends a roadside shrine, nobody (except of course the grieving families) remembers that a couple of years ago some poor sod died there because a dozy lorry driver didn’t bother to secure his load properly. Remember that digger that hit a bridge a few years ago at Tollerton, ripped the side out of a passing coach and killed three people? Of course you don’t; it was 30 years ago. These days, apart from the regular thud of a Stobart lorry hitting a railway bridge, how many similar incidents do you see on telly and read about in the papers? Far less; and that is partly because drivers are now better trained. DCPC is only a small part of that admittedly; but it’s a vital one because it helps drivers focus on safety.
D.Thompson:
From my last post, any takers?Could someone explain why you can drive a 3.5 ton vehicle without DCPC but anything above requires it?
.
Because they don’t require a vocational entitlement.
You drive 3.5T’s on a car licence (Category B), and they are exempt from tachograph requirements, CPC etc. Action can be taken by the TC against vocational entitlements, but not against a Category B licence.
The simple answer to your second question is yes there were; well, perhaps not hundreds of deaths but enough to make people sit up and realise that there was a problem. And DCPC was one of the measures taken to (hopefully) reduce the number of deaths and injuries.
Unless it’s a disaster that really stands out (Hillsborough perhaps being an example) the public memory is remarkably short regarding accidental deaths. Unless somebody regularly tends a roadside shrine, nobody (except of course the grieving families) remembers that a couple of years ago some poor sod died there because a dozy lorry driver didn’t bother to secure his load properly. Remember that digger that hit a bridge a few years ago at Tollerton, ripped the side out of a passing coach and killed three people? Of course you don’t; it was 30 years ago. These days, apart from the regular thud of a Stobart lorry hitting a railway bridge, how many similar incidents do you see on telly and read about in the papers? Far less; and that is partly because drivers are now better trained. DCPC is only a small part of that admittedly; but it’s a vital one because it helps drivers focus on safety.
I cannot find any stats showing more people were killed by unsecure loads back in the day than are today but the stats below make interesting reading -
The Driver Certificate of Professional Competence ( CPC ) was introduced in: 2008 for bus and coach drivers. 2009 for lorry drivers
What I hate is five days of total boredom where I learn virtually nothing , taught by people who have never done the job. For the privelege of this costs me , and all other agency drivers about £1000 in fees and lost wages.
If you work for Tesco they will teach you that the back door man is “your Customer”. This makes them a better driver how?
My last one was 10 agency drivers for Tesco being taught how to use ferry mode on the tacho. We don’t even go to the Isle of Wight.
It is essential that we all know how to put diesel into the diesel tank. Using a nozzle. Without learning this on my CPC I don’t know what I would have done.
BishBashBosh:
You have only got to calculate what the DVSA earn in fees to realise it is unlikely to be going anywhere soon.
DVSA get their income from a massive variety of sources.
You don’t generate an income of £300 to £400 million per year by charging £8.75 upload costs per driver for a DCPC course, that’s how much they get out of it.
They get a slice of every fee for: theory tests, practical tests, MOT’s, ADR vehicle approval certificates etc etc.
JeffA:
It is essential that we all know how to put diesel into the diesel tank. Using a nozzle. Without learning this on my CPC I don’t know what I would have done.
It’s very easy to mock. The amount of business done by both mis-fuelling specialists ( who hasn’t nearly put diesel in the Adblue or vice versa?) and the dermatology department who deal with skin problems caused by not using proper PPE, indicate that there are a few drivers who may have benefitted from such training, even if it was wasted on you.
Back in the day, I used to train new forkies on the use of double handler attachments specific to the job I was on. Didn’t exempt me from having to do refreshers on the basic ones though. It’s the way life is; it may rile those of us who have been doing this job for a while, but the mantra for all training has to be that they must assume that you don’t know anything at all about the job. It’s the only way to avoid any oversights. Employers are so afraid of any comebacks arising from lawsuits filed by people claiming that they “weren’t properly trained”, that they start from base zero nowadays.
D.Thompson:
I cannot find any stats showing more people were killed by unsecure loads back in the day than are today but the stats below make interesting reading -The Driver Certificate of Professional Competence ( CPC ) was introduced in: 2008 for bus and coach drivers. 2009 for lorry drivers
I look forward with great interest to the statistics for the full calendar year after most of the migrant drivers went home. I suspect that will prove more than inferring that CPC is to blame.
Sidevalve:
D.Thompson:
I cannot find any stats showing more people were killed by unsecure loads back in the day than are today but the stats below make interesting reading -The Driver Certificate of Professional Competence ( CPC ) was introduced in: 2008 for bus and coach drivers. 2009 for lorry drivers
I look forward with great interest to the statistics for the full calendar year after most of the migrant drivers went home. I suspect that will prove more than inferring that CPC is to blame.
The simple answer to your second question is yes there were; well, perhaps not hundreds of deaths but enough to make people sit up and realise that there was a problem. And DCPC was one of the measures taken to (hopefully) reduce the number of deaths and injuries.
I am not saying DCPC is to blame i am showing DCPC has not made the slightest bit of difference in fact the figures have risen year on year.
For those that missed the original post DCPC started in 2009 -
Duplicate post removed.
Sidevalve:
D.Thompson:
From my last post, any takers?Could someone explain why you can drive a 3.5 ton vehicle without DCPC but anything above requires it?
Could i also ask how all the drivers managed before this ■■■■■■■■ was introduced were there millions of clueless drivers on the road with badly loaded wagons killing hundreds of people every year of course there wasn’t, as mentioned earlier in the thread its a stealth tax and that is all it is.
.
The simple answer to your second question is yes there were; well, perhaps not hundreds of deaths but enough to make people sit up and realise that there was a problem. And DCPC was one of the measures taken to (hopefully) reduce the number of deaths and injuries.
Unless it’s a disaster that really stands out (Hillsborough perhaps being an example) the public memory is remarkably short regarding accidental deaths. Unless somebody regularly tends a roadside shrine, nobody (except of course the grieving families) remembers that a couple of years ago some poor sod died there because a dozy lorry driver didn’t bother to secure his load properly. Remember that digger that hit a bridge a few years ago at Tollerton, ripped the side out of a passing coach and killed three people? Of course you don’t; it was 30 years ago. These days, apart from the regular thud of a Stobart lorry hitting a railway bridge, how many similar incidents do you see on telly and read about in the papers? Far less; and that is partly because drivers are now better trained. DCPC is only a small part of that admittedly; but it’s a vital one because it helps drivers focus on safety.
Maybe there’s an argument to be had for incorporating CPC, with an exam, at the start of a driving course rather than essentially being given the keys and good luck? I remember some near misses and scrapes I encountered when starting out but the traffic volumes circa 1990’s weren’t as frantic and techno-heavy as they are today. By all means throw in a ‘refresher’ maybe one day a year but in it’s current guise it’s clearly proving N.F.F.P and keeping a sizeable body of ex-lorryers, with valuable and hard-won experience staying well away from the dystopian nightmare of present day Logistics Solutioning? How can this be addressed ? 
I strongly suspect there’s something being cooked up covertly, most likely involving other poorer nations ‘raising their economic boats on the UK-rising- tide’,(relatively) so to speak, as our own ramshackled vessels continue taking on water (inflation pressures),dysfunctional, health- undermining conditions etc,etc. I don’t imagine this would be an issue for say…Afghans or Eritreans’ when earning 20 times they would back home but l have doubts they would bring anything to the game in terms of safety tbh.
D.Thompson:
I am not saying DCPC is to blame i am showing DCPC has not made the slightest bit of difference in fact the figures have risen year on year.
There are other factors which have contributed significantly to the rise; smart motorways, an explosion in the number of cyclists using the road and an overall increase in traffic levels being the main ones.
The fact remains that whatever the cynics might say, DCPC was a genuine attempt to raise standards in the industry. And by God did they need raising!
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By all means throw in a ‘refresher’ maybe one day a year but in it’s current guise it’s clearly proving N.F.F.P and keeping a sizeable body of ex-lorryers, with valuable and hard-won experience staying well away from the dystopian nightmare of present day Logistics Solutioning? How can this be addressed ?
[/quote]
Simple, honest answer? Some people need to pull their heads from their arses, stop thinking they have attained a level of skill so close to perfection that the mere suggestion of having to take part in any form of extra training is such an insult so as to force them to leave not only a job, but an entire industry
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