So what’s the problem with CPC?
I think I’m hearing two sides (correct me if I’m wrong?)
I left school with no qualifications. I drive a truck. It’s unskilled labour. Why do I need to sit through CPC
CPC is too basic. It has no pass/fail element. It should be harder and require more knowledge to pass.
Is driving a truck an unskilled job that should require no training beyond the DVSA LGV test?
I’m about to dive into it so can’t comment yet. My ignorance on the matter suggests it is a good idea, and why not? Try being an airline pilot if you think 35 hours every 5 years is too hard.
EDIT: How is truck driving unskilled?
TruckerGuy:
EDIT: How is truck driving unskilled?
I don’t know.
Honestly, I think it’s a pretty skilled job. Skilled in as much as if you get it wrong you’re risking other people’s lives and equipment.
Can anyone do it? I suppose so. But they used to say that about fitting gas boilers until enough people died they decided maybe not everyone with a wrench and blow torch should be allowed to do it and they brought in Gas Safe.
But it seems other truckers think it’s an unskilled job comparable to sweeping a floor.
trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewto … 2&t=169881
00:30 seconds. “We’re uneducated grunts”
Pretty demoralising when your own workmates think of themselves (and by virtue, me) as uneducated, stupid, grunts lucky to have a job working twice the national average hours for half the national average wage.
Build5:
So what’s the problem with CPC?I think I’m hearing two sides (correct me if I’m wrong?)
I left school with no qualifications. I drive a truck. It’s unskilled labour. Why do I need to sit through CPC
CPC is too basic. It has no pass/fail element. It should be harder and require more knowledge to pass.
Is driving a truck an unskilled job that should require no training beyond the DVSA LGV test?
Driving the truck doesn’t require training beyond the DVSA LGV test. However learning how to load it, how to secure loads, how to use a tacho, comply with drivers hours regs does require training beyond making the thing move forwards and backwards.
In respect to both points the fact we have drivers who’ve been doing the job quarter of a century or more still not grasping the basics of drivers hours regs, for example thinking that if you do a 15hr duty and take 11hrs off you’ve not had a reduced daily rest, despite running under EU regs all of that time and most likely doing two DCPC 35hr stints by now then clearly that answers why you need to do 1 and why you also need to do 2.
TruckerGuy:
I’m about to dive into it so can’t comment yet. My ignorance on the matter suggests it is a good idea, and why not? Try being an airline pilot if you think 35 hours every 5 years is too hard.EDIT: How is truck driving unskilled?
Do airline pilots have to watch videos of fat blokes showing them how to put fuel into the aircraft?
The way I always understood it was that any job that required a qualification in order for you to be able to do it was classed as a skilled job, the qualification proving the need for a certain level of skill or knowledge beyond that of the average person.
With regards to the CPC, newbies go into the CPC with the right attitude by treating it as an opportunity to learn new things and improve their skill and knowledge base.
Some (not all, and certainly nowhere near enough) experienced drivers also treat it in it’s intended way, and use it to get the positives from it.
However, there are those (and they usually tend to be the most vocal) who see it as a waste of time, that think they can’t be taught just because they have been around for a while. These people see no positives in it, so they don’t even try and get anything from it. These are the sort of people who would complain about being able to sit the same module 5 times, while on their fourth consecutive drivers hours module, yet still can’t explain the rules.
You have to do the CPC, so why not make use of it as a positive? You can do things like basic first aid as a CPC course, get a recognised qualification and the skills to help in a potential emergency.
I think that if you take pride in your work, and want to be good at what you do, then surely a part of that is looking to constantly improve your skills and knowledge. If you were bad at reversing you would practice it in order to get better, why should classroom-based learning be any different?
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If we have to have the DCPC can it be made relevant to our work? You can have class room with a school bus driver a bin man a furniture man and a milk tanker driver all listening to the same stuff. In what way is this training for a profession.
Everything has some kind of skill to it - even “unskilled” jobs. If you get your swimming badge you have shown skill at swimming. Let’s not knock ourselves down.
Conor:
In respect to both points the fact we have drivers who’ve been doing the job quarter of a century or more still not grasping the basics of drivers hours regs, for example thinking that if you do a 15hr duty and take 11hrs off you’ve not had a reduced daily rest, despite running under EU regs all of that time and most likely doing two DCPC 35hr stints by now then clearly that answers why you need to do 1 and why you also need to do 2.
I would suggest that this in itself shows that the current DCPC is ineffective, or perhaps that regs are too complicated for a large number of the people they effect.
I can remember a time shortly after starting work as a driver that I did not understand how the above rule on daily rest worked, my employer at the time took the time to explain it to me in a way that I understood and that was that - it was many years before the cpc was introduced. Effective training used to exist in this industry and it consisted of more than being told to sign an infringement notice.
Build5:
So what’s the problem with CPC?I think I’m hearing two sides (correct me if I’m wrong?)
I left school with no qualifications. I drive a truck. It’s unskilled labour. Why do I need to sit through CPC
CPC is too basic. It has no pass/fail element. It should be harder and require more knowledge to pass.
Is driving a truck an unskilled job that should require no training beyond the DVSA LGV test?
The problem with the DCPC is that it is nothing more than a stealth tax on our job. This is quite clear when you look at how it’s set up and run. To believe otherwise means you are naive and deluded.
Cpc is part of the job let the employer pay.When i do mine its a day on full pay .So not complaing.
I think if people searched to find interesting modules at good, reputable providers then they would have a different opinion. The cheapest courses will rarely be the most engaging or interesting.
The other issue has been the ability to repeat modules. In some instances this can be a good thing, for example if you are a new driver struggling with drivers hours/tachos then it could make sense to sit the session again.
I know of a firm who have a delegated in-house instructor who is only able to deliver one module, meaning drivers did the same module 5 Saturday’s on the bounce; now that is a complete waste of time and money.
Fortunately the rules of repetition have now changed, by where you cannot repeat modules without good reason. Hopefully this will encourage drivers to try other courses with other providers where it may not be the typical ‘death by Powerpoint’ they are used to.
alamcculloch:
If we have to have the DCPC can it be made relevant to our work? You can have class room with a school bus driver a bin man a furniture man and a milk tanker driver all listening to the same stuff. In what way is this training for a profession.
In order to do this, companies would have to start writing their own modules, to cover what they deem to be relevant to them and their jobs.
This would require someone to sit down, write the course program, make sure any information is both correct and relevant, and that it lasts the required length of time. Then they would have to produce any additional materials, such as hand outs, a presentation, possibly even quizzes or exams.
Then all if this would have to be submitted to JAUPT for approval, the cost of which is £252 for a 7 hour module, payable every time it needs reapproving, which is every year.
Then factor in how many drivers in a company, how many people you could put on a course at a time (for example, if you had a module on how to load and unload a tanker, it would be a largely practical module, therefore limiting numbers dramatically), and how often drivers are likely to need to repeat the course during their time with a company (again using the tanker example, it is unlikely you would need to repeat this after doing it once).
So when you factor all of this in, is it any wonder that most places run the same modules, and that the majority of those come from just a handful of consortium’s that provide them to training providers, so many different companies and training providers will have the exact same training programs
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Conor:
In respect to both points the fact we have drivers who’ve been doing the job quarter of a century or more still not grasping the basics of drivers hours regs, for example thinking that if you do a 15hr duty and take 11hrs off you’ve not had a reduced daily rest, despite running under EU regs all of that time and most likely doing two DCPC 35hr stints by now then clearly that answers why you need to do 1 and why you also need to do 2.
THIS.
As I’ve posted elsewhere, the most dangerous driver on any road is the one who’s been doing it for donkey’s years and THINKS he knows it all.
We all can, and do, make genuine mistakes, the particular example which Conor quotes is one which I along with many other drivers have made myself; for most of us it’s usually a genuine oversight or miscalculation but it can of course be an expensive one for both the driver and the employer. If you don’t take steps to eradicate bad habits and misunderstandings, they will keep on occurring.
I’m the first to concede that DCPC can be boring if you’re unfortunate enough to have a poorly designed course and a crap instructor. Add to that, by our very nature we do not like sitting in classrooms listening to somebody burble on; we are solitary animals by nature and don’t like being cooped up for what we think is no good reason. I am however willing to bet that none of us, if we’re totally honest, can say that we did not learn something from any course.
If you think you didn’t; it’s YOU who has the problem!
Sidevalve:
I’m the first to concede that DCPC can be boring if you’re unfortunate enough to have a poorly designed course and a crap instructor.
Exactly this.
Sidevalve:
Conor:
In respect to both points the fact we have drivers who’ve been doing the job quarter of a century or more still not grasping the basics of drivers hours regs, for example thinking that if you do a 15hr duty and take 11hrs off you’ve not had a reduced daily rest, despite running under EU regs all of that time and most likely doing two DCPC 35hr stints by now then clearly that answers why you need to do 1 and why you also need to do 2.THIS.
As I’ve posted elsewhere, the most dangerous driver on any road is the one who’s been doing it for donkey’s years and THINKS he knows it all.
We all can, and do, make genuine mistakes, the particular example which Conor quotes is one which I along with many other drivers have made myself; for most of us it’s usually a genuine oversight or miscalculation but it can of course be an expensive one for both the driver and the employer. If you don’t take steps to eradicate bad habits and misunderstandings, they will keep on occurring.
I’m the first to concede that DCPC can be boring if you’re unfortunate enough to have a poorly designed course and a crap instructor. Add to that, by our very nature we do not like sitting in classrooms listening to somebody burble on; we are solitary animals by nature and don’t like being cooped up for what we think is no good reason. I am however willing to bet that none of us, if we’re totally honest, can say that we did not learn something from any course.
If you think you didn’t; it’s YOU who has the problem!
Not in my case sidevalve - I made most of my hair-raising dangerous mistakes in the first year or two of passing. I remember I was revving up trying to reverse in somewhere when someone pointed out “It’s not moving because you are up against the wall…”. I tried to pretend I had meant to do it 
JeffA:
Sidevalve:
Conor:
In respect to both points the fact we have drivers who’ve been doing the job quarter of a century or more still not grasping the basics of drivers hours regs, for example thinking that if you do a 15hr duty and take 11hrs off you’ve not had a reduced daily rest, despite running under EU regs all of that time and most likely doing two DCPC 35hr stints by now then clearly that answers why you need to do 1 and why you also need to do 2.THIS.
As I’ve posted elsewhere, the most dangerous driver on any road is the one who’s been doing it for donkey’s years and THINKS he knows it all.
We all can, and do, make genuine mistakes, the particular example which Conor quotes is one which I along with many other drivers have made myself; for most of us it’s usually a genuine oversight or miscalculation but it can of course be an expensive one for both the driver and the employer. If you don’t take steps to eradicate bad habits and misunderstandings, they will keep on occurring.
I’m the first to concede that DCPC can be boring if you’re unfortunate enough to have a poorly designed course and a crap instructor. Add to that, by our very nature we do not like sitting in classrooms listening to somebody burble on; we are solitary animals by nature and don’t like being cooped up for what we think is no good reason. I am however willing to bet that none of us, if we’re totally honest, can say that we did not learn something from any course.
If you think you didn’t; it’s YOU who has the problem!
Not in my case sidevalve - I made most of my hair-raising dangerous mistakes in the first year or two of passing. I remember I was revving up trying to reverse in somewhere when someone pointed out “It’s not moving because you are up against the wall…”. I tried to pretend I had meant to do it
Didn’t we all? Yes, of course we learn by experience as well, and we do that every day even if we don’t realise it; consider though that had somebody been in between your lorry and that wall, you might not be laughing about it so much now. DCPC wouldn’t have solved that; but I’m sure you take my point.
I still think the DCPC is more to do with the ability to prosecute. The DCPC covers the main subjects and once you have signed for the course you cannot then claim lack of knowledge despite 30+ years experience
The fact the courses don’t really engage the audience is a shame as I am sure that they could be more in depth. I cancelled one of my days as they started doing a ‘Vehicle and load safety’ one on the Saturday that sounded like it would help me understand the new technologies now available
I am one of those who hasn’t driven for 20 years but have kept my licence current including DCPC and card. The money might tempt me to do some driving, but while the conditions remain the same it is unlikely and is subject of another thread
My main gripes -
Its 7 hours because they decided it has to be 7 hours not because it needs to be 7 hours, why not 4 hours which would be a lot more bearable and i am sure the info could still be given in the shorter time.
If we have to have the DCPC can it be made relevant to our work? You can have class room with a school bus driver a bin man a furniture man and a milk tanker driver all listening to the same stuff. In what way is this training for a profession.
This, why do i need to learn how to couple and load a trailer safely when i dive a bin wagon and don’t intend ro change that any time soon.
Driving the truck doesn’t require training beyond the DVSA LGV test. However learning how to load it, how to secure loads, how to use a tacho, comply with drivers hours regs does require training beyond making the thing move forwards and backwards.
Again not relevant to my job so a total waste of my time and and all the other lads/lasses who do not need to know this.
I will stop there as i could add many more.
Could someone explain why you can drive a 3.5 ton vehicle without DCPC but anything above requires it?
Could i also ask how all the drivers managed before this ■■■■■■■■ was introduced were there millions of clueless drivers on the road with badly loaded wagons killing hundreds of people every year of course there wasn’t, as mentioned earlier in the thread its a stealth tax and that is all it is.
JeffA:
Everything has some kind of skill to it - even “unskilled” jobs. If you get your swimming badge you have shown skill at swimming. Let’s not knock ourselves down.
So my Yorkshire Terrier is skilled, we chucked him in the canal and he made it to the other bank and then came back to us, so he has navigational skills, swimming skills and good memory.