I run a small removal company and have recently completed our first 7 hours of training. I like most on here, see this as just another expenditure, and whilst we picked up snippets of information, on the whole, the day was tedious to say the least.
Whilst it is not our responsibility to arrange the training, I got the drivers together and explained the situation and that I was prepared to arrange and pay for the course, but couldn’t really afford to pay the guys as well. We all agreed that as a compromise, they would attend the course in their time. They were happy, I was happy.
I am the first to agree that in an ideal world, we would have covered the expenses completely, but we just are not in a position to do this. We have recently had to upgrade part of the fleet so we have had to pay out for digital tachographs for the drivers, software to download etc and we do not have an endless supply of money. We are in a fortunate position with a good bunch of guys (only 12 drivers) but I would not want to lose any of them.
For those people who say that the company’s should pay for everything and its not fair if they don’t, just take a minute to reflect on the realities of the economy at the moment. In my line of work, there is a reasonable amount about, but the prices are being slashed and the profit margin getting smaller, there is only so much small companies can take.
Its not me being tight or squeezing the drivers more, its reality and I am fortunate to have a bunch of lads that appreciate this and understand the difficulties we face.
ROG:
If your employer is paying for the time you are on the course then it’s other work
If your employer just pays for the course then it’s not other work.
Following this logic, you could drive a truck seven days a week provided you were only being paid for five of them.
ROG:
If your employer is paying for the time you are on the course then it’s other work
If your employer just pays for the course then it’s not other work.
Following this logic, you could drive a truck seven days a week provided you were only being paid for five of them.
not quite… apart from the EU driver regs not allowing it…
ROG:
That is why it says a LGV driver has to have the DCPC for driving COMMERCIALLY and does not say being PAID to drive
Commercial driving can be an UNPAID LGV driver if the truck they are driving is on a COMMERCIAL run - loaded or empty
Given that drivers have been warned by VOSA that washing a truck down on a Saturday constitutes “other work” and not rest, I doubt such a course could be regarded as a driver “disposing of his time as he pleases”, regardless of whether he is paid for attending it or not…
albion:
if you are paying for the course and it’s at the weekend then you are freely disposing of your time, so it wouldn’t count as work, but if your employer is paying for it and the training is conducted at the weekend, it counts as work.
If your employer is paying for the time you are on the course then it’s other work
If your employer just pays for the course then it’s not other work.
But it would be up to the driver to prove this…
And is it not classed as other work as its required as part of the job? If an employer is paying for it, are they requiring you to do it at that time?
After all, even charity work can be classed as other work.
jdc:
I run a small removal company and have recently completed our first 7 hours of training. I like most on here, see this as just another expenditure, and whilst we picked up snippets of information, on the whole, the day was tedious to say the least.
Whilst it is not our responsibility to arrange the training, I got the drivers together and explained the situation and that I was prepared to arrange and pay for the course, but couldn’t really afford to pay the guys as well. We all agreed that as a compromise, they would attend the course in their time. They were happy, I was happy.
I am the first to agree that in an ideal world, we would have covered the expenses completely, but we just are not in a position to do this. We have recently had to upgrade part of the fleet so we have had to pay out for digital tachographs for the drivers, software to download etc and we do not have an endless supply of money. We are in a fortunate position with a good bunch of guys (only 12 drivers) but I would not want to lose any of them.
For those people who say that the company’s should pay for everything and its not fair if they don’t, just take a minute to reflect on the realities of the economy at the moment. In my line of work, there is a reasonable amount about, but the prices are being slashed and the profit margin getting smaller, there is only so much small companies can take.
Its not me being tight or squeezing the drivers more, its reality and I am fortunate to have a bunch of lads that appreciate this and understand the difficulties we face.
I take off my hat to you for that post, most companies would say put yourself through it or we’ll pay the course but not your wage (i know that is what you are doing, but only as that is the way it has to be, you said you’d like to pay course and pay a wage too which is highly commendable in my eyes) Also you pay for the drivers digi tacho, that is the first time I’ve heard of a company doing that. You obviously highly value your workforce, and no doubt they know they’re onto a bloody winner working for you!!
zippy!:
And is it not classed as other work as its required as part of the job? If an employer is paying for it, are they requiring you to do it at that time?
It is not part of the job - the job being that of working for an employer
The onus in law is for the driver to get it
I would imagine that an employer OFFERING to pay for it would say to the driver something like - I will pay for the course if you want to do it on your day off - that would leave the CHOICE in the hands of the driver
jdc:
I run a small removal company and have recently completed our first 7 hours of training. I like most on here, see this as just another expenditure, and whilst we picked up snippets of information, on the whole, the day was tedious to say the least.
Whilst it is not our responsibility to arrange the training, I got the drivers together and explained the situation and that I was prepared to arrange and pay for the course, but couldn’t really afford to pay the guys as well. We all agreed that as a compromise, they would attend the course in their time. They were happy, I was happy.
I am the first to agree that in an ideal world, we would have covered the expenses completely, but we just are not in a position to do this. We have recently had to upgrade part of the fleet so we have had to pay out for digital tachographs for the drivers, software to download etc and we do not have an endless supply of money. We are in a fortunate position with a good bunch of guys (only 12 drivers) but I would not want to lose any of them.
For those people who say that the company’s should pay for everything and its not fair if they don’t, just take a minute to reflect on the realities of the economy at the moment. In my line of work, there is a reasonable amount about, but the prices are being slashed and the profit margin getting smaller, there is only so much small companies can take.
Its not me being tight or squeezing the drivers more, its reality and I am fortunate to have a bunch of lads that appreciate this and understand the difficulties we face.
I take off my hat to you for that post, most companies would say put yourself through it or we’ll pay the course but not your wage (i know that is what you are doing, but only as that is the way it has to be, you said you’d like to pay course and pay a wage too which is highly commendable in my eyes) Also you pay for the drivers digi tacho, that is the first time I’ve heard of a company doing that. You obviously highly value your workforce, and no doubt they know they’re onto a bloody winner working for you!!
If only there were more like yourself about
Thank you for that but its only about being fair in my eyes, I try to be as fair as I can but I am sure my lads have their moans just like everyone else!!
zippy!:
And is it not classed as other work as its required as part of the job? If an employer is paying for it, are they requiring you to do it at that time?
It is not part of the job - the job being that of working for an employer
The onus in law is for the driver to get it
What’s that got to do with it? If I worked 5 days for a transport company, my employer, then chose to work a 6th day for someone else, say behind the bar in a pub, that would be my choice but I would still have to record that day on a chart or printout as other work. The choice to work that 6th day was in my hands but I would need to record it.
An OD is technically not allowed to do paperwork during his weekly rest, it’s his choice and he wouldn’t be getting paid but it is still not really allowed.
Coffeeholic:
What’s that got to do with it? If I worked 5 days for a transport company, my employer, then chose to work a 6th day for someone else, say behind the bar in a pub, that would be my choice but I would still have to record that day on a chart or printout as other work. The choice to work that 6th day was in my hands but I would need to record it.
I thought a certain VOSA person on this site stated that if doing Dcpc in a drivers own time and not being PAID then it was not other work
Who actually pays for the course has no bearing because if the boss or anyone else pays for a Dcpc course as a gift then it’s a thank you very much
If a boss TELLS a driver that they MUST do it in their own time on a certain day then the driver has the option of saying a lot of rude words to that boss.
Coffeeholic:
What’s that got to do with it? If I worked 5 days for a transport company, my employer, then chose to work a 6th day for someone else, say behind the bar in a pub, that would be my choice but I would still have to record that day on a chart or printout as other work. The choice to work that 6th day was in my hands but I would need to record it.
I thought a certain VOSA person on this site stated that if doing Dcpc in a drivers own time and not being PAID then it was not other work
Who actually pays for the course has no bearing because if the boss or anyone else pays for a Dcpc course as a gift then it’s a thank you very much
If a boss TELLS a driver that they MUST do it in their own time on a certain day then the driver has the option of saying a lot of rude words to that boss.
I fail to see what I said that was incorrect■■?
I didn’t say you were incorrect, I asked what that had to do with it.
You’re too easy sometimes, it takes the fun out of the sport a little, only a little though.
In answer to ROG, you are quite right, but the consequences are the same, you will not be able to earn a living driving LGV’s commercially. I don’t think there is a huge amount of work around for private or excempt LGV driving.
As an aside, for those concerned about the cost of obtaining/ providing drivers CPC, we have costed it for our company as a registered training provider with about 60 drivers across two sites. We think the cost to the company will be in the region of £40,000 every five years, this includes for registering for training, providing training for drivers at no cost to them and all the other incidental costs associated. I think that is an awful lot of money. Our company can easily afford it but there will be many in general haulage who cannot.
The cost of going to an outside provider actually works out more expensive.
the year 2014 you have no cpc,so your basically unemployed from driving if for reward, so you join the queue of drivers at the dole office, some spotty git asks how can we get you back into work my answer “i am willing to drive but because i carnt afford to pay for cpc means am on the dole” “ive been in touch with a said company and they have said if i get my cpc then there is a guaranteed job” ok mr xxxxx, we have funding for you to do a weeks cpc paid for by all the bloody taxes you have paid over the years.
joking aside but do you think that these courses will be run by the dole cos i understand that if you have a letter of guarantee off a company, they will provide training within a range, this goes for flt driver training etc
and on another note if you had your own ltd company, could you drive for your own company for free?
at my dads place the drivers have to give up 1 days holiday per yeard if they want the company to pay for it. then they just got off in their own time to do the course that way it gets around any tacho rules about other work/learning etc because they arnt at work.
my place company going to start next year once the dust settles a bit and plan to get 10 drivers in at a time…which should be fun for the rota guy.
TimB48:
60 drivers across two sites. We think the cost to the company will be in the region of £40,000 every five years,
I reckon that is costing the company about £133 per driver per year if my maths is ok
Based on the costs I was given, I would say it would cost you £30k including the VAT for the training. Obviously if you are paying the guys to attend this would have to go on top.
Cruise Control:
at my dads place the drivers have to give up 1 days holiday per yeard if they want the company to pay for it. then they just got off in their own time to do the course that way it gets around any tacho rules about other work/learning etc because they arnt at work.
Not sure how to view that…
If on paid annual leave then the driver is supposed to be able to dispose of their time as they see fit but if the company is insisting that they do a Dcpc course on that day then they do not fit that ‘as they see fit’ criteria IMO
