tachograph:
So the answer for countries working to EU regulation (EC) No 561/2006 is that there’s no reason why you should not have 7 cards between weekly rest periods.
I disagree. Each time you resume work after a rest period you begin a new 24 hour period and after 6 of those you require a weekly rest period, which begins when you finish work on your 6th shift as the daily rest for that shift is extended into a weekly rest period.
The beginning a weekly rest period no later than 144 hours after commencing work following a weekly rest period thing is there to take account of a driver who may have longer daily rest periods between shifts. Someone who worked irregular hours could have gaps of 15 - 20 hours between shifts for example so could reach 144 hours before completing 6 shifts. It could be possible they may not get into a 5th shift and require a weekly rest period because they have come up against the 144 hour rule.
ROG:
The regs say - A driver must start a weekly rest period no later than at the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period - it says nothing about a limit on the number of shifts done within that period.
But each time you start a new shift after a rest period you also begin a new 24 hour period. After 6 of those you require a weekly rest period. 6 shifts=6x24-hour periods = weekly rest period
Questions -
1 - Is there a daily or shift limit (between daily rest periods) on the number of driving hours that can be done IE max 10 in 24 hours or max 10 in a shift
2 - Can you start a second shift before the 24 hours is up on the first shift IE start 0600 on Monday and then 0500 on Tuesday
3 - is there a limit to the number of shifts that can fit into a 144 hour period from the last weekly rest
ROG:
The regs say - A driver must start a weekly rest period no later than at the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period - it says nothing about a limit on the number of shifts done within that period.
Coffeeholic:
But each time you start a new shift after a rest period you also begin a new 24 hour period. After 6 of those you require a weekly rest period. 6 shifts/6x24-hour periods = weekly rest period
But the previous 24 hour period has not yet finished if a new shift is started - see question 2
Scotchbaz: Under EU regs, the maximum permissible is four 9 hour and two 10 hour driving days.
That is true for a fixed week but depending when weekly rest periods fall it could be 2x9 and 4x10 hour driving days.
Scotchbaz:
Totally, in point of fact between your first and second shift you’ve managed to drive 11 hours in one 24 hour period, put your hand out for the cane and take six of the best
ROG:
Questions -
1 - Is there a daily or shift limit (between daily rest periods) on the number of driving hours that can be done
Yes, basic stuff here ROG, 10 hours in a shift/24-hour period (between rest periods.) Not limited in a 24-hour calender period
ROG:
2 - Can you start a second shift before the 24 hours is up on the first shift IE start 0600 on Monday and then 0500 on Tuesday
Yes, but you also begin a new 24-hour period at that point, not at 06:00 when 24 calender hours are up from the start of the previous shift.
ROG:
3 - is there a limit to the number of shifts that can fit into a 144 hour period from the last weekly rest
Yes, 6x24-hour periods so 6 shifts, because remember you begin a new 24-hour period each time you resume work after a rest period.
ROG:
The regs say - A driver must start a weekly rest period no later than at the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period - it says nothing about a limit on the number of shifts done within that period.
Coffeeholic:
But each time you start a new shift after a rest period you also begin a new 24 hour period. After 6 of those you require a weekly rest period. 6 shifts/6x24-hour periods = weekly rest period
But the previous 24 hour period has not yet finished if a new shift is started - see question 2
The calender 24-hour period hasn’t finished but you begin a new 24-hour period as defined by the tacho regulations.
ROG:
Are we saying that 24 X 6 does not = 144 hours
NO, 24x6 does indeed = 144 but you are mixing calender 24 hours and 24 hours as defined by the regulations. Stop doing that and you will see you can do 6 shifts then rest, much like God if you follow that stuff.
Summing up.
Resume work after rest period = begin new 24 hour period, regardless of the fact it may be less than 24 hours since commencing previous shift.
Does the ‘new’ 24 hour period at the start of a shift refer only to the daily rest that must be taken during that 24 hour period
OR
Does a 24 hour period refer to literally a 24 hour period
The fact that you start a new period of 24 hours when you start a new shift in no way alters the fact that a 24 hour period is a period of 24 hours.
If you start work on Monday at 06:00 and finish the daily rest period of 11 hours by midnight you then start a new period of 24 hours in which you must have the required daily rest and this is in my humble opinion the relevance of the 24 hour period, but this in no way makes 06:00 to midnight a 24 hour period.
The regulations are quite clear that you must start a new weekly rest period no later than six 24 hour periods from the last weekly rest period, this is 144 hours.
Where in the regulations does it say that a period of time of less than 24 hours should be regarded as a 24 hour period ?
My view is this I work/live in Germany where
we have the 10hr rule ie, thats all you can work ,
weither its 10hrs driveing or a mixture of work
and driveing only 10hrs allowed,
also you then have the nightworkers rules, this
makes it bloody difficult enough, as far as I am
concerned 6 driveing periods is enough and to
be honest I do not think it would be allowed
to have 7 disks or periods recorded on the
digi card, I will try to see if a german BAG will
give there answer and see if they agree with
those who say it is okay,
tachograph:
…but this in no way makes 06:00 to midnight a 24 hour period…Where in the regulations does it say that a period of time of less than 24 hours should be regarded as a 24 hour period ?
To my humble little mind, 0600 Monday to 0600 Tuesday constitutes a twenty four hour period, but I never was good at arithmetic. The regulations might not stipulate what a twenty four hour period is, but I’d guess that most school children would know, lets ask one.
brit pete:
My view is this I work/live in Germany where
we have the 10hr rule ie, thats all you can work ,
weither its 10hrs driveing or a mixture of work
and driveing only 10hrs allowed,
also you then have the nightworkers rules, this
makes it bloody difficult enough, as far as I am
concerned 6 driveing periods is enough and to
be honest I do not think it would be allowed
to have 7 disks or periods recorded on the
digi card, I will try to see if a german BAG will
give there answer and see if they agree with
those who say it is okay,
Have Germany left the European Union? All that fuss before when they wanted to control it all
Also you can hardly use Germany as an example when drivers were expected to visit their trucks on their rest days to change a tacho card
I’ve just had a nice, very long, conversation with a VOSA tacho reg expert at -
Peterborough GVTS, Saville Road, Westwood, Peterborough, PE3 6TL
Tel: 01733 263 423
When I said that each 24 hour period started at the start of each shift, he said “Where in the regulations does it say that?”
He pointed out that the 144 hours (6 X 24 hours) is the bit in the regs that they would be looking at in terms of any breaches of the regs.
He said that doing 7 or 8 shifts in those 144 hours would not trigger any regulation breaches provided that the correct rest had been taken.
ROG:
When I said that each 24 hour period started at the start of each shift, he said “Where in the regulations does it say that?”
To stop any further confusion this bit needs clarifying, the start of a new shift (or end of a daily or weekly rest period) does trigger a new 24 hour period for the relevance of the daily rest requirements, but not for the 6 x 24 hour periods that this thread is about.
ROG:
Just to make things a little more interesting -
8 shifts of 6 hours done in one week (Sunday Midnight to Sunday Midnight) with a total of 32 hours of driving time.
OVER 45 hours weekly rest
Mon 0200 - Mon 0800 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Mon 1700 - Mon 2300 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Tue 1000 - Tue 1600 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Wed 0100 - Wed 0700 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Wed 1800 - Thu 0000 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Thu 0900 - Thu 1500 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Fri 0200 - Fri 0800 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Fri 1900 - Sat 0100 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
OVER 45 hours weekly rest
Repeat previous week…
I cannot comment on what other countries do but all EU countries are supposed to be following the same regulations as the UK
on the above example Tue only shows 8 hours rest
tachograph:
ROG:
When I said that each 24 hour period started at the start of each shift, he said “Where in the regulations does it say that?”
To stop any further confusion this bit needs clarifying, the start of a new shift (or end of a daily or weekly rest period) does trigger a new 24 hour period for the relevance of the daily rest requirements, but not for the 6 x 24 hour periods that this thread is about.
going on what you said above would that be wrong under 6x24
and what about this , Art. 15 Abs. 2 der VO(EWG) 3821/85,
7 disks for 6 days being classed as illegal by a german police
man,
2. Drivers shall use the record sheets every day on which they are driving, starting from the moment they take over the vehicle. The record sheet shall not be withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal is otherwise authorized. No record sheet may be used to cover a period longer than that for which it is intended.
Or has this been amended ,or does each country have a cope out clause.
To simplify things, here are the important bits in an easy to view quote.
Daily Rest.
A driver must take a daily rest period within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily or weekly rest period. An 11-hour (or more) daily rest is called a regular daily rest period.
Weekly Rest.
A driver must start a weekly rest period no later than at the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest period.
The fixed week starts at 00.00 on Monday and ends at 24.00 on the following Sunday
An actual working week starts at the end of a weekly rest period, and finishes when another weekly rest period is commenced, which may mean weekly rest is taken in the middle of a fixed (Monday to Sunday) week. This is perfectly acceptable — the working week is not required to be aligned with the ‘fixed’ week contained in the rules, provided all the relevant limits are complied with.
M = 9D
T = 9D
W = 9D
T =24R
F =10D
S =10D
S = 9D
Total 58 hours, totally legal but the maximum driving allowed in a week is 56 hours!
ROG:
Just to make things a little more interesting -
8 shifts of 6 hours done in one week (Sunday Midnight to Sunday Midnight) with a total of 32 hours of driving time.
OVER 45 hours weekly rest
Mon 0200 - Mon 0800 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Mon 1700 - Mon 2300 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Tue 1000 - Tue 1600 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Wed 0100 - Wed 0700 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Wed 1800 - Thu 0000 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Thu 0900 - Thu 1500 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Fri 0200 - Fri 0800 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Fri 1900 - Sat 0100 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
OVER 45 hours weekly rest
Repeat previous week…
delboytwo:
on the above example Tue only shows 8 hours rest /quote]
Finish Tue 1600 (4pm) - start Wed 0100 (1am)… Hmmmm… how many hours is that… ? - I make it 9 (nine)
ROG:
When I said that each 24 hour period started at the start of each shift, he said “Where in the regulations does it say that?”
tachograph:
To stop any further confusion this bit needs clarifying, the start of a new shift (or end of a daily or weekly rest period) does trigger a new 24 hour period for the relevance of the daily rest requirements, but not for the 6 x 24 hour periods that this thread is about.
That’s what I was getting at
And with that now being clarified it means that doing 7 or even 8 SHIFTS within that 144 hour (6 X 24 hours) is legal.
delboytwo:
going on what you said above would that be wrong under 6x24
that in that 24 hours only shows 8 hour rest
To be honest Del I haven’t bothered working any of that out as I believe it just complicates a simple question of weather or not you can do more than 6 shifts between weekly rest periods.
There are occasions when it’s appropriate to list worked hours but in this case it’s quite obvious that if you put up a list of 8 shifts between weekly rest periods and ask it it’s legal then the people who are arguing that you can not do more than 6 shifts between weekly rest periods will say it’s illegal and the rest of us will say it’s legal if the rest requirements are met.
As far as I can see it does nothing to help the discussion but makes for more unnecessary reading and makes it more difficult to read the relevant information in the thread.
It also takes peoples attention away from the original question, as it has in your case in fact
So the answer to your question is “I haven’t a clue because I can’t be bothered to work it out as it has no real relevance to this thread”
ROG:
Just to make things a little more interesting -
8 shifts of 6 hours done in one week (Sunday Midnight to Sunday Midnight) with a total of 32 hours of driving time.
OVER 45 hours weekly rest
Mon 0200 - Mon 0800 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Mon 1700 - Mon 2300 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Tue 1000 - Tue 1600 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Wed 0100 - Wed 0700 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Wed 1800 - Thu 0000 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 9 hours daily rest
Thu 0900 - Thu 1500 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Fri 0200 - Fri 0800 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
Fri 1900 - Sat 0100 (driving time during shift = 4 hours) then 11 hours daily rest
OVER 45 hours weekly rest
Repeat previous week…
delboytwo:
on the above example Tue only shows 8 hours rest /quote]
Finish Tue 1600 (4pm) - start Wed 0100 (1am)… Hmmmm… how many hours is that… ? - I make it 9 (nine)
my point is on the bases of the 6x24 hours from 0.00 Mon till 24.00 sun and to the question 0.00 Tues till 24 00 Tues you only show 8 hours and as you no rest can not be take before so the hours rest show in that 24 hour period show only 8
IE max 10 in 24 hours or max 10 in a shift
) so a weekly break must be taken 
