Nice to see some old photo’s on the thread, thank you Cattle Wagon Man.
Fabrication and a bit of trial and error has always been the commerical vehicle way.
Fred Greenwood & Son - Volvo FH12 500.
Cheers
Simon
Cheers
An interesting story from Cattle Wagon Man. In 1956 ,the year I was born, my Dad bought a 4D and, after various major breakdowns, it was sold in 1961 for a Morris FFK,which I’m told was never missed a beat in the 5 years it was operated and was replaced by another one.I do remember being at Wetherby around 1969 and a buyer there had an FE and Dad said he should have had one of them instead of the Ford, but in the light of what Cattle Wagon Man has said maybe not,the FE was replaced by one of those 9 ton FG’s around that time ,no doubt due to the pending plating regs.
Hi Cattle wagon man. Can you remember a coach builder from Lancaster called Ambrose Fox. He built 3 cattle containers for us in the early sixties. The last one was in 1966 and was on a Dodge 4 wheeler. I remember delivering the new chassis cabs to Lancaster on a Sunday with my father and then going back a few weeks later to collect complete with new body and container all painted and signwritten. If memory serves me right Fox’s yard was next to a canal somewhere in the middle of Lancaster. Cheers Tyneside
One off Alec Storeys trucks from Selby.
tyneside:
Hi Cattle wagon man. Can you remember a coach builder from Lancaster called Ambrose Fox. He built 3 cattle containers for us in the early sixties. The last one was in 1966 and was on a Dodge 4 wheeler. I remember delivering the new chassis cabs to Lancaster on a Sunday with my father and then going back a few weeks later to collect complete with new body and container all painted and signwritten. If memory serves me right Fox’s yard was next to a canal somewhere in the middle of Lancaster. Cheers Tyneside
Hi Tyneside,
Yes, I can remember Ambrose Fox coachbuilders of Lancaster, but our family did not purchasae any of their containers. You are correct in saying their premises was next to the canal. Until the mid 1960 s Lancaster Auction was situated on the opposite side of the main road ( A 6 ) , at the southern end of the town centre. A. F. containers were solidly-built and were renown for the ribbed or crinkle-shaped aluminium side panelling.
This made brushing the [ zb ] off much harder ! Some of their containers were still in use by farmers/hauliers 25 years later. I am unsure the exact year A. F. finished production of building livestock containers, but I think it was in the late 1970 s . Perhaps someone will correct me, O/ K. Tyneside, if you want to build one yourself nowadays, ( and you are right about the location ) , I think you d be able to purchase the wood, screws, nails, metalwork ( some ), etc… because the site is now a B & Q store !!!
Thanks for your interesting reminiscing story.
On another note , I saw you had posted a photo of one your fleet , a new Leyland Freighter complete with a
( Geo Hallowell ) container. How did that compare in use against A. F. containers ?
Cheers, cattle wagon man.
Fox built a couple for us in 1966 and 1969, they were around 2/3 the price of a Houghtons. They would build in flat Ally as well, George Darcy from Breightmet, Reg McCloud from Wrightington and Saunders from Ulverston had these types. Eric Staveley from Ingleton told me he thought Fox finished around`1970,they had one of his on a C or D plate Super Clydesdale.
boden:
An interesting story from Cattle Wagon Man. In 1956 ,the year I was born, my Dad bought a 4D and, after various major breakdowns, it was sold in 1961 for a Morris FFK,which I’m told was never missed a beat in the 5 years it was operated and was replaced by another one.I do remember being at Wetherby around 1969 and a buyer there had an FE and Dad said he should have had one of them instead of the Ford, but in the light of what Cattle Wagon Man has said maybe not,the FE was replaced by one of those 9 ton FG’s around that time ,no doubt due to the pending plating regs.
Hi Boden, The Austin FE 5 Tonner was fitted with narrower road springs than the 7 Tonner . A neighbouring livestock haulier , Edgar Walker ( R.I.P. ) bought a new 7 Tonner FE only a month before my fathers purchase , and the 7 Tonner FE was MORE stable with 3 decks of sheep than the 5 Tonner with two decks !! My father used to joke that some days the journeys were so frightening that perhaps HE lost more bodily fluids than the livestock he was hauling !!! The FF 7 Tonner was fitted with additional helper spring leaves , and this improved stability. The FE ( FEC 731 ) gave good reliability in every other way, and when sold , still had the original tyres - probably because it was never driven at anything other than a very steady speed. Its successor, an Austin FF 7 Tonner HEC 84 proved itself to be a more stable workhorse , and gave good service with its slightly larger engine of 5.7 litre size, compared to FECs 5.1 litre size.
Cheers, cattle wagon man.
Hello Cattle Wagon Man
The first FF had the 5.1 engine,the second did have the 5.7 and 5spd box. Fox’s added 3’ to the chassis so as to take a 21’ box.This had more or less expired after less than 3 years no doubt due to the regular overload, and was laid up in the yard on and off from late 68 till it went the following May, An Atki 6 legger reg no:BTF 444 belonging to my Dads old employer, W. Smith from Rossendale was a regular visitor during the time taking its place.The original FF survived a head on collision at Harrogate on a Saturday in 1962 when my brother who was 18 at the time was going up to Ripon to collect some cattle from the previous days Market before heading back to Bingley, where Dad was buying, to fill out. It was accepted that the other driver came across the road and the police were’nt interested that he was under 21, they would be nowadays.It was towed back to Kennings at Cheetham Hill who did the repairs.My brother has a wealth of these anecdotes from that time which I only find out about usually when we start discussing something totally different.I only know the reg of that Atki because I spoke to the driver from that time just a couple of weeks ago and remembered to ask him, he is now 80 years old and still working locally as a jobbing builder,though without fail he always works in a cattle wagon story.
Regards
Hi Tyneside and Boden,
I made this 1/50 th scale model of an Ambrose Fox 3 deck livestock container last year, and it replicates a Leyland Retriever owned by M. E. Saunders & Sons from Sparkbridge, near Ulverston.
This Leyland was one of the first to enter service fitted with the then new Ergomatic tilt cab. Leyland Motors used photographs of this wagon for its Publicity Department, and was even shown in the children`s I - Spy books !
The reg. no. was RTD 123 C ., and was powered by the Leyland 0.600 engine
I scratchbuilt the container out of plasticard and strip, and the waterslide decals were reproduced for me by Paul Robson
after I was kindly given permission by the Saunders family. This model was my first attempt at constructing a A. F. container, with only a few photographs and memories of when I used to see RTD 123 C at auction marts.
I am corrected, yes, I made an error in my earlier Post . Ambrose Fox did finish in the early 1970 s , not late 70 s.
Tommy and son Eric Staveley had a new Albion Super Clydesdale in 1966, the reg. no was DEC *** D.
They bought a new Leyland Super Comet in 1969 , reg. no. GJM 795 G. In 1973 they replaced their A. F. container with a new Williams all-alluminium container.
Cheers, cattle wagon man.
Excellent stuff Cattle Wagon man.
I’ve made an error too as when I said Saunders had a flat panelled Fox’s box it was that Retriever I had in mind though obviously not, and I’ve already been to Specsavers.If this is the only one they operated I saw it at Slingers at Great Harwood ,again this would be around 1968 and the driver said it was going ok.Both Saunders and Tommy Staveley used to deliver to us for Slingers for a couple of years in the mid-60’s when Slingers used our slaughterhouse,Staveleys always late on a Friday night, a typical cattle wagon time.The last wagon I personally saw Staveleys with was a Lynx on a N plate.
boden:
Excellent stuff Cattle Wagon man.I’ve made an error too as when I said Saunders had a flat panelled Fox’s box it was that Retriever I had in mind though obviously not, and I’ve already been to Specsavers.If this is the only one they operated I saw it at Slingers at Great Harwood ,again this would be around 1968 and the driver said it was going ok.Both Saunders and Tommy Staveley used to deliver to us for Slingers for a couple of years in the mid-60’s when Slingers used our slaughterhouse,Staveleys always late on a Friday night, a typical cattle wagon time.The last wagon I personally saw Staveleys with was a Lynx on a N plate with a Houghtons box.
Hi Boden,
Don t forget that what we are talking about was over 40 years ago, and the old grey matter has seen plenty of use ! The container on Saunders Leyland 6 wheeler had wooden panelling, maybe tongue and groove boards , but it was of solid construction .
Tommy Staveley replaced his Leyland Super Comet with a new Leyland Lynx in 1975 , transfering the Williams container across. It was around this time that Tommy hung up his boots and smock , and son Eric continued the business.
Eric `s last wagon , a new Leyland Lynx was a V reg. It was around this time Eric bought the Williams container from C.S.Gates & Son that was fitted to their A.E.C. Mercury ( I think ! ). The difference between the two containers was the latter had folding 2 nd deck . Dalesman will be the one to confirm these statements as correct or not .
After Eric had his horrific accident, Brian Morphet took over the V reg. Leyland and the business.
Keep the nostalga flowing !!
Cheers, cattle wagon man.
Hi Cattlewagon man
Fantastic model ! wish I had the patience.
In the late fifties/ early sixties we used to run 5/6 vehicles on cattle and flat work. I was born in 1953 and the first boxes I remember were Hallowell from Morpeth. At that time they were all wood construction and varnished. I think they were all 3 deckers on 4 wheel Bedford TK’s and LAD Dodges. One of the Bedfords had a Leyland engine and would catch pigeons.
The Dodges all had the same spec. Perkins engine (354■■) and Eaton two speed axle. For some reason one of them had a high ratio diff and would do 70+ MPH.
Not sure why we started to use Fox containers. Possibly because Hallowell had not started to use aluminium but they both compared favourably when it came to using them.
We then moved onto a Newark Body Builder box. They were owned, I think, by a family called Garrod who also ran cattle wagons and used to get into our area now and then. They were all ally construction but with wooden decks and could not be destroyed, The first one we bought was a new 24ft in 1969 on a new Leyland Comet with a tip cab and 400 engine. This was just a two decker but we then got another Newark box new in 1975. This was a 28ft 3 decker on a Daf 6 wheeler. We later lengthened it to 34 ft for an artic.
We sold the 34 footer about 1984 but the 24 footer was still going strong on it’s fourth chassis in 1987 when we sold off the cattle wagons
As mentioned the Newark boxes were really strong and a good general purpose box but the middle deck was a bit high and the run ups a bit steep for the Walls pig job we did. The top deck was also not as user friendly as they could have been either.
Hi Cattle Wagon Man & Boden
Just been reading your latest posts, and it takes me back a long way. I worked for Tommy Staveley for many years, both part-time, and regular. I started when I was about 19. At that time, early 50’s Tommy had very light flats built to get the weight under 3 tons, to be able to travel at 30mph, and I could drive it under 21. The body was part of the load. The first I drove was the 7 ton petrol Commer with a Ambrose Fox 3 deck body, cost to much to run, so a new Albion Cheiftain with coach built cab, and the body off the Commer was swopped over. I was working on the family farm at that time, and would go driving at night taking lambs from Kirkby Lonsdale, and Bentham markets to Accrington for Slinger’s. The slaughter house was down under the viaduct in the centre of Accrington then. The next wagon was a Leyland Comet LAD cab, with Eaton 2 speed axle, a good wagon but with poor brakes, with a new Fox body. (By the way Cattle Wagon Man I think Fox’s was not on B&Q site, but across the road where the flats are now and backed onto the canal). It was at this time I started working for Tommy full time. In 1966 he bought the Albion Super Clydsdale DEC 281D, it had a low geared rear axle, about 40 MPH. It had a new Fox container with the ribbed alloy side pannels, refered to as allumium planks, they were great muck collectors. I don’t remember Fox’s ever used flat alloy pannels. I was back driving part-time by now having taken on a farm. I drove this on it’s first day out, went Hawes loaded 3 decks of lambs, and couldn’t release the hand brake, the weight had pulled the linkage so tight. We cut one of the brake rod brackets off the chassis to release the pressure. I have a photo of this wagon & would put in on here if I could remember how to down load it. Tommy’s next vehicle was the Leyland Super Comet, with plitter box with 2 gear sticks if I remember right. I can’t remember if the body of the Albion was put on this or the first David Williams of Wrexham body they bought. Staveley’s never had a Houghton’s body. Cattle Wagon Man told the rest of the story. Regards Dalesman
I always was led to believe that a Houghton livestock container was the finest you could buy? Bewick.
Over the years we had containers from Ambrose Fox Lancaster, Geo Hallowell Morpeth, Newark Bodybuilders and one second hand Houghton. Houghtons were an easy box to work with especially if they were a 3 decker and all gates, decks etc were interchangeable. Fox’s were on a par with Houghton at the time apart from the ribbed ali which was poor to clean. The early Hallowell wooden boxes were OK but the newer ali ones in the 1980’s were much better. The Newark box was very strong and was the widest and hence a good cattle box but the middle decks were a bit high making the run ups steep and therefore bad pig loaders. The top deck arrangement was not so clever either. We bought a new Newark box in 1969 and it was still going strong on its 4th chassis in 1987. the back gates and floor were still original. Same as the Houghton all the decks and gates were interchangeable.
From what I have seen on the road these days only Houghton survive and they make a very tidy product with good solutions for hydraulic deks etc.
tyneside:
Over the years we had containers from Ambrose Fox Lancaster, Geo Hallowell Morpeth, Newark Bodybuilders and one second hand Houghton. Houghtons were an easy box to work with especially if they were a 3 decker and all gates, decks etc were interchangeable. Fox’s were on a par with Houghton at the time apart from the ribbed ali which was poor to clean. The early Hallowell wooden boxes were OK but the newer ali ones in the 1980’s were much better. The Newark box was very strong and was the widest and hence a good cattle box but the middle decks were a bit high making the run ups steep and therefore bad pig loaders. The top deck arrangement was not so clever either. We bought a new Newark box in 1969 and it was still going strong on its 4th chassis in 1987. the back gates and floor were still original. Same as the Houghton all the decks and gates were interchangeable.
From what I have seen on the road these days only Houghton survive and they make a very tidy product with good solutions for hydraulic deks etc.
Williams commercial bodies have just gone into liquidation this week they been doing some very good boxes lately theres a page on facebook williams commercial bodies showing some nice work it a real shame some good lads worked there 
Bewick:
I always was led to believe that a Houghton livestock container was the finest you could buy? Bewick.
thats a ■■■■■■■■ talking all the best bodies come out of wrexham 
Hi folks,
Fred Greenwood & Son - Volvo FH16 - Houghton Parkhouse Livestock Trailer
I also seem to recall that Millmoor Livestock containers were also quite popular in the 80’s/early 90’s.
Kind regards
Simon
R975ENC:
Bewick:
I always was led to believe that a Houghton livestock container was the finest you could buy? Bewick.thats a ■■■■■■■■ talking all the best bodies come out of wrexham
They must be good if they are better than Houghtons Parkhouse!! Which I would doubt very much,but as they say “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and Welshmen do have a “soft spot” for ewe’s ba! ba! so whatever floats your boat!! Bewick.
Bewick:
R975ENC:
Bewick:
I always was led to believe that a Houghton livestock container was the finest you could buy? Bewick.thats a ■■■■■■■■ talking all the best bodies come out of wrexham
They must be good if they are better than Houghtons Parkhouse!! Which I would doubt very much,but as they say “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and Welshmen do have a “soft spot” for ewe’s ba! ba! so whatever floats your boat!! Bewick.
Think there more sheep shaggers your way than mine dennis that a nice box on a 
wagon worked in williams gwersyllt when i left school and grew up with crump boxes so i suppose u right about the eye of the beholder thing 