Do bank holidays count towards the 48 hr average over the 26 weeks?
Does a weeks normal holiday = 48 hrs?
Is the reference period from date x to y (26 weeks) or a rolling weekly refreshed period over 26 weeks?
Fixed 26 week period, a week holiday counts as 48hrs to stop employers from abusing holidays to lower the average, a single day is 8hrs.
Seeing as you are asking basic questions here are the rest of the key points…
There is no opt out for the RTD.
48hr average over a fixed 17 or 26 week reference period, 60hrs max in a working week.
Breaks and PoA do not count towards working time, only driving and other work.
When you’re doing a shift working any time between 00:00 and 04:00 even if only a few minutes of a 15hr shift is in that period you are classed as a night worker. As a night worker you are limited to a maximum 10hrs work (exc breaks and PoA) unless there is a workplace agreement in force to opt out of the 10hr night shift limit.
The opt out for the 10hr limit cannot be unilaterally implemented by management, it is purely a driver/drivers representatives decision and it applies to all drivers in the company, you can’t opt in or out on an individual basis.
What about Bank holidays? Do they count as 8 hours?
I’m on week 11 and already 44 hours over or 52 if bank holidays count towards it. At this rate I’ll be forced to take two weeks off unpaid. Today I was supposed to reload for Monday but I though ■■■■ it and went home. If they moan (I’ll rephrase that ‘when they moan’) im just going to say it’s unreasonable them expecting me to work over 48 hours every week.
$$$:
What about Bank holidays? Do they count as 8 hours?
Yes.
Unless you work it then it counts as whatever accumulated at work that day just like any other day.
$$$:
I’m on week 11 and already 44 hours over or 52 if bank holidays count towards it. At this rate I’ll be forced to take two weeks off unpaid. Today I was supposed to reload for Monday but I though [zb] it and went home. If they moan (I’ll rephrase that ‘when they moan’) im just going to say it’s unreasonable them expecting me to work over 48 hours every week.
You’d be surprised… once you get to the 17 weeks your average hardly changes.
Plus nobody actually really cares about the WTD anyway. Load of ■■■■■■■■. It’s not enforced apart from by pointy shoes managers, DVSA arent arsed with it and to the best of my knowledge there’s not been one conviction resulting from a breach of WTD regs.
20 days of holiday count as either 8 hours or 48 for a week, any holiday over the 20 days count as zero towards your working time. There’s nothing saying which 20 days count, so bank holidays may or may not count
When you say your already 44 hours over, what do you mean? What’s your current average?
DickyNick:
When you say your already 44 hours over, what do you mean? What’s your current average?
48 hours, plus 44 (or 52 if bank holiday counts) in 11 weeks. Average would be around 52 hours a week. That said I’ve had a weeks holiday and 1 bank holiday which can be deducted? Taking me to 22 days holiday left or 2 days that can be used to offset the total?
I reckon your totalling up wrong
nick2008:
I reckon your totalling up wrong
I do a print out every day. I record my working time. I record my driving time.
I added all these totals up over the period. Is that right?
Typically my card in to car out week is about 62 hours.
I don’t use POA.
I do use BREAK, but I don’t put it on break a lot as when I’m unloading the EPG is running which shows up. Put it on BREAK with the EPG running and DVSA and my bosses can use it against me.
Yes that’s correct then. Holidays do count, bank holidays do not. You need to make sure your company know you need a few short days planned to bring the average back down. It’s in their interest to work with you on this because it looks bad on the company if they are consistently working drivers over the legal 48 hour average.
Why worry about it when the authorities have no sanctions for breaches of the WTD
DickyNick:
Yes that’s correct then. Holidays do count, bank holidays do not. You need to make sure your company know you need a few short days planned to bring the average back down. It’s in their interest to work with you on this because it looks bad on the company if they are consistently working drivers over the legal 48 hour average.
A full-time 5 days a week worker has a minimum of 28 days holiday, these may or may not include bank holidays. 20 days count as working time, the rest are zero, there is no reference to which 20 count
Unless you worl for a supermarket or similar corp, take no notice of WTD averages, nighttime 10 hour limits or anything else that stops you earning money. EU regs are to be adhered to strictly, anything else just pay lip service to unless company complain.
Btw its up to the company to figure averages not you so they prob will complain if that’s your excuse for not completing the job.
trevHCS:
Unless you worl for a supermarket or similar corp, take no notice of WTD averages, nighttime 10 hour limits or anything else that stops you earning money. EU regs are to be adhered to strictly, anything else just pay lip service to unless company complain.Btw its up to the company to figure averages not you so they prob will complain if that’s your excuse for not completing the job.
So I’m not supposed to keep an eye on staying within the law. You must be management. Use the rule book against a driver when it suits, but get affronted when a driver has the audacity to try to stay within the law when you merely want to overwork him.
I’m looking at other jobs anyway. Sod em. Sack me if they like. I’m not going to let them treat me like a slave.
In one of it’s main (the better part) previous incarnations, your lot used to pay stand down time, @ £100 a day if my memory serves, or was it £120, can’t remember now.
Have they stopped this now?
If so another nail in the coffin, no wonder the drivers are disappearing onto ECM.
edit…ah i see you don’t use POA, we had an agreement when i was there that so long as you used 1.25 (one and a quarter) hours of POA in a week, you’d qualify for the full stand down pay when your hours were getting high, that meant at least an extra couple of weeks paid holiday a year for many…worth speaking to the shop steward about this, if you ask management?..er just don’t.
Juddian:
In one of it’s main (the better part) previous incarnations, your lot used to pay stand down time, @ £100 a day if my memory serves, or was it £120, can’t remember now.
Have they stopped this now?
If so another nail in the coffin, no wonder the drivers are disappearing onto ECM.edit…ah i see you don’t use POA, we had an agreement when i was there that so long as you used 1.25 (one and a quarter) hours of POA in a week, you’d qualify for the full stand down pay when your hours were getting high, that meant at least an extra couple of weeks paid holiday a year for many…worth speaking to the shop steward about this, if you ask management?..er just don’t.
There’s no paid stand down time. At the current rate I’m looking at two weeks without pay during this period. I have told the allocator I was finishing too late on Fridays on a regular basis. So what do they do, they plan me in another 13 hour day on a Friday. Im not doing it. I did 8 hours, parked up, and went home. Monday is going to the interesting when they ring asking what time I’ll be tipped when I’m still loading up.
I might give ECM a call. You don’t see many sub 11 loads with them do you. That kind of puts me off, but if it’s good long runs I would jump at it.
Edit; I’ve printed out the application form, will fill it in and post it off on Monday if I get any grief.