the easiest way to remember is to forget about the wtd and just have your 45 min break as and when required and you will be fine
lizard:
the easiest way to remember is to forget about the wtd and just have your 45 min break as and when required and you will be fine
I mostly have a 45 at 11am; I always start at 6.30, and usually parked up at 4.30pm.
shep532:
There never seems to be a simple way of explaining this. It definitly IS 30 minutes of break AFTER 6 hours of WORK (not duty). However, that 30 minutes can be taken in 15 minute chunks as long as they interrupt the work (cannot be taken at the end of the shift).
NO!! You could hardly be more wrong even if you tried.
As stated in the Regulations (and the VOSA guidance that you quoted), the break has to be taken BEFORE you have reached six hours of work, not AFTER 6 hours of work. This break has to be at least 15 minutes, not 30 minutes, not even two breaks totalling 30 minutes. You can take a second 15 minute break later on in your shift to make a total of 30 minutes for the whole shift. If your working time exceeds 9 hours in that shift, then the total break(s) taken must be at least 45 minutes (again, distributed across the shift so that you never work more than six hours without at least a 15 minute break).
lizard:
the easiest way to remember is to forget about the wtd and just have your 45 min break as and when required and you will be fine
Only true if your job is mostly driving. If your working day consists of a mix of driving and “other work” it is very easy indeed to work more than six hours without your driving time getting anywhere near 4.5 hours (and thus triggering the requirement for a “45”)
Roymondo:
shep532:
There never seems to be a simple way of explaining this. It definitly IS 30 minutes of break AFTER 6 hours of WORK (not duty). However, that 30 minutes can be taken in 15 minute chunks as long as they interrupt the work (cannot be taken at the end of the shift).NO!! You could hardly be more wrong even if you tried.
As stated in the Regulations (and the VOSA guidance that you quoted), the break has to be taken BEFORE you have reached six hours of work, not AFTER 6 hours of work.
The regulations state that no worker should work more than 6 hours without a break, nowhere does it say that the break has to be taken before reaching 6 hours, it has to be taken before going over or exceeding 6 hours working time.
Roymondo:
lizard:
the easiest way to remember is to forget about the wtd and just have your 45 min break as and when required and you will be fineOnly true if your job is mostly driving. If your working day consists of a mix of driving and “other work” it is very easy indeed to work more than six hours without your driving time getting anywhere near 4.5 hours (and thus triggering the requirement for a “45”)
i see where you are coming from.
so glad im long distance.
I was told by my manager today that 15 min break is fine as long as i have 2 within 6 hours
bjd:
I was told by my manager today that 15 min break is fine as long as i have 2 within 6 hours
Blimey yet another twist on the rules 
Enjoy your extra breaks 
tachograph:
bjd:
I was told by my manager today that 15 min break is fine as long as i have 2 within 6 hoursBlimey yet another twist on the rules
Enjoy your extra breaks
Even after showing him the examples in the FTA hanbook he still insisted he was right what can you do
tachograph:
Roymondo:
shep532:
There never seems to be a simple way of explaining this. It definitly IS 30 minutes of break AFTER 6 hours of WORK (not duty). However, that 30 minutes can be taken in 15 minute chunks as long as they interrupt the work (cannot be taken at the end of the shift).NO!! You could hardly be more wrong even if you tried.
As stated in the Regulations (and the VOSA guidance that you quoted), the break has to be taken BEFORE you have reached six hours of work, not AFTER 6 hours of work.
The regulations state that no worker should work more than 6 hours without a break, nowhere does it say that the break has to be taken before reaching 6 hours, it has to be taken before going over or exceeding 6 hours working time.
I have read it, thanks. And what I said stands - if you are not going to work more than six hours without a break, you will have to take that break before you reach six hours - even if it is only a few seconds before. Compare and contrast what I said with the assertion that a break is required after working six hours.
Or then again, maybe in your universe it is possible, as a driver, to stop working and take a break with exactly 6:00:00 on the clock. I’ve tried it and never seem to be able to find a suitable stopping place just as the clock ticks over
Is the OP just off the sunshine bus? Common sense tells you when you want a break. you do not need rule books for that. 20 years ago Nigeria oil field was completly unregulated from any form of HSE. but we still had a break every 3 hours on a 12 hour shift.
Allegedly the Uk has HSE, no wonder we need spoon fed more with DCPC.
Ill supply the crayons if someone else can wedge in for the paper please.
Roymondo:
I have read it, thanks. And what I said stands - if you are not going to work more than six hours without a break, you will have to take that break before you reach six hours - even if it is only a few seconds before. Compare and contrast what I said with the assertion that a break is required after working six hours.Or then again, maybe in your universe it is possible, as a driver, to stop working and take a break with exactly 6:00:00 on the clock. I’ve tried it and never seem to be able to find a suitable stopping place just as the clock ticks over
Then you haven’t read it correctly.
If a mobile worker works exactly 6 hours, or even 5 hours 59 minutes then NO break is required as they have not EXCEEDED 6 hours of work without a break. This is whay I used the phrase AFTER 6 hours of work - because until AFTER the 6 hours (i.e exceeded 6 hours) the break isn’t yet required.
Usually the break would come before the 6 hours was reached - but it doesn’t have to.
tachograph:
Roymondo:
shep532:
There never seems to be a simple way of explaining this. It definitely IS 30 minutes of break AFTER 6 hours of WORK (not duty). However, that 30 minutes can be taken in 15 minute chunks as long as they interrupt the work (cannot be taken at the end of the shift).NO!! You could hardly be more wrong even if you tried.
As stated in the Regulations (and the VOSA guidance that you quoted), the break has to be taken BEFORE you have reached six hours of work, not AFTER 6 hours of work.
The regulations state that no worker should work more than 6 hours without a break, nowhere does it say that the break has to be taken before reaching 6 hours, it has to be taken before going over or exceeding 6 hours working time.
tacho i am being stupid or am i not reading what you have written correctly!!! regulation states no working shall work more than 6 hrs without a break, so by that reckoning you have to take your break before reaching 6hrs, so it doesn’t need to state that it has to be taken, because if you go over 6hrs by 1 second you would technically be breaking the law 
i will standby for a good whipping 
I could be at work from 06:00 to 14:00 giving a duty period of 8 hours.
Within that 8 hours duty if I complete EXACTLY 6 hours of work and the remainder is POA I do not need to take a break at all as 6 hours of WORK has not been exceeded.
Your are correct that if I work 6 hours and 1 second I have exceeded 6 hours of work without a break.
The problem is that the rules do not say a break must be taken BEFORE 6 hours of work - just 6 hours must not be exceeded. If am not going to exceed 6 hours - no break is needed.
However, let’s be honest, how many British workers would work more than 6 hours without a break? Must be pretty rare and I doubt this 6 hour rule really causes people a problem. The only argument appears to be how long the break needs to be and I think that is pretty much cleared up by the wording from the GV262.
I am sure most people know at the beginning of their shift they are going to exceed 6 hours of work within that shift. Most would also know if they were going to exceed 9 hours. Therefore they could plan their breaks accordingly and more than likely take them BEFORE the 6 hour limit.
From all the tach analysis I do - it is the latter part of the day catches drivers out as they tend not to have a second break from driving and their driving and work adds up to more than 6 hours since the last break.
shep532:
Roymondo:
I have read it, thanks. And what I said stands - if you are not going to work more than six hours without a break, you will have to take that break before you reach six hours - even if it is only a few seconds before. Compare and contrast what I said with the assertion that a break is required after working six hours.Or then again, maybe in your universe it is possible, as a driver, to stop working and take a break with exactly 6:00:00 on the clock. I’ve tried it and never seem to be able to find a suitable stopping place just as the clock ticks over
Then you haven’t read it correctly.
If a mobile worker works exactly 6 hours, or even 5 hours 59 minutes then NO break is required as they have not EXCEEDED 6 hours of work without a break. This is whay I used the phrase AFTER 6 hours of work - because until AFTER the 6 hours (i.e exceeded 6 hours) the break isn’t yet required.
Usually the break would come before the 6 hours was reached - but it doesn’t have to.
My point being that the required break cannot be started AFTER the six hours working. Look in any dictionary and you’ll see that the word means “During the period of time following (an event or specified time)”. It doesn’t mean “At or before (a specified time)”
But aside from semantics, the other thing you said was that this break (or breaks) at or before (or after, in your usage) 6 hours work has to be 30 minutes. This is not true - 15 minutes is sufficient. You can take the other 15 minutes (to make a total of 30) later in your shift.
E.g. Start work at 5am
15 minute break for breakfast 8am
15 minute break for lunch 12.30pm (by which time you have been working more than 7 hours)
Finish work 1.30pm
Roymondo:
My point being that the required break cannot be started AFTER the six hours working. Look in any dictionary and you’ll see that the word means “During the period of time following (an event or specified time)”. It doesn’t mean “At or before (a specified time)”
As you say this is purely a matter of semantics. If you work exactly 6h and then start a break then you have not exceeded 6h without a break and you are legal.
Some people might say that this is “having a break after 6 hours work”, as you have done 6h work and then (immediately) after that you have had a break. I would be one of these people as if you said to me “I watched TV for 6 hours then after that I went upstairs and had a sleep” I would assume you had the sleep immediately after watching the TV, not at some unspecified time later on in the day.
It is certainly not a break you have taken “before” doing 6h work as you have clearly done 6h of work.
It should perhaps be worded something like “at the point where you reach 6h of work, you must commence a break of at least 15 minutes” or something like that.
Paul
Roymondo:
I have read it, thanks. And what I said stands - if you are not going to work more than six hours without a break, you will have to take that break before you reach six hours - even if it is only a few seconds before. Compare and contrast what I said with the assertion that a break is required after working six hours.Or then again, maybe in your universe it is possible, as a driver, to stop working and take a break with exactly 6:00:00 on the clock. I’ve tried it and never seem to be able to find a suitable stopping place just as the clock ticks over
wildfire:
tacho i am being stupid or am i not reading what you have written correctly!!! regulation states no working shall work more than 6 hrs without a break, so by that reckoning you have to take your break before reaching 6hrs, so it doesn’t need to state that it has to be taken, because if you go over 6hrsby 1 second you would technically be breaking the law
We’re talking about the regulations and the regulations say that you can go up-to 6 hours working time before taking a break, of course in reality we would start that break before 6 hours working time was reached but legally there’s no reason to.
Having said that I have stopped driving and sat and waited while the tachograph clicked over to 4 hours 30 minutes driving time, guess what it was legal, I wouldn’t recommend it though
Suppose you work only 6 hours, you would not need a break to comply with the regulations.
wildfire:
i will standby for a good whipping
Not really my thing but whatever floats your boat I suppose 
Roymondo:
15 minute break for breakfast
You’ll get indigestion eating it that quickly 
Going through my infringement sheet last week the office man got very upset about my stance on the break required at 6 hours. Apparently I must have a break of at least 30 minutes before 6 hours, although I can take that break in 15 minute chunks. According to him I must also have a further 15 minutes break before I get to 9 hours work,
I lost the will to live after I was told that I’d gone over the 4:30 driving time - there was a printout with the reason clearly stated on it that had been handed in on the day of the problem, some three months before the ‘chat.’ I still failed to persuade him that this was quite legal, even though Article 12 was quoted on the printout, along with reason, time and location. Next time I’ll just put the parking brake on whilst in the middle of the M62!! His take on it was I shouldn’t have gone over 4:30, grrrrrrrrrrrrr.
My head still hurts from banging it against a wall of ignorance, I don’t blame the individual; the analysis company are worse as they are peddling software that is clearly defective and not fit for purpose. I wonder if I get sacked based on their defective analysis if I have a claim against them for loss of earning?
Time for me to swallow my medication and enjoy my day off.
geebee45:
Going through my infringement sheet last week the office man got very upset about my stance on the break required at 6 hours. Apparently I must have a break of at least 30 minutes before 6 hours, although I can take that break in 15 minute chunks. According to him I must also have a further 15 minutes break before I get to 9 hours work,I lost the will to live after I was told that I’d gone over the 4:30 driving time - there was a printout with the reason clearly stated on it that had been handed in on the day of the problem, some three months before the ‘chat.’ I still failed to persuade him that this was quite legal, even though Article 12 was quoted on the printout, along with reason, time and location. Next time I’ll just put the parking brake on whilst in the middle of the M62!! His take on it was I shouldn’t have gone over 4:30, grrrrrrrrrrrrr.
My head still hurts from banging it against a wall of ignorance, I don’t blame the individual; the analysis company are worse as they are peddling software that is clearly defective and not fit for purpose. I wonder if I get sacked based on their defective analysis if I have a claim against them for loss of earning?
Time for me to swallow my medication and enjoy my day off.
The office are ALWAYS RIGHT