Would you take the truck back?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
141

simcor:
In the highway code can you coast a car down a hill out of gear or is it classed as not being in control of the vehicle, which I believe is correct without going to read it just to confirm or deny but that’s what I was taught when I first started to drive?

I also don’t believe that eco roll is actually in neutral even though it shows N in the gear selection indicator.

I think this is the rule you are after:

Highway Code Rule #122:
Coasting. This term describes a vehicle travelling in neutral or with the clutch pressed down. It can reduce driver control because

:: engine braking is eliminated
:: vehicle speed downhill will increase quickly
:: increased use of the footbrake can reduce its effectiveness
:: steering response will be affected, particularly on bends and corners
:: it may be more difficult to select the appropriate gear when needed.

And you would be right, though I think that an automated system to enable coasting wouldn’t be an issue unless the driver allowed the speed to exceed the limit. A case which doesn’t apply here.

eagerbeaver:
Let’s all reach down between our legs and discover what’s there. Picture yourselves in years to come REGRETTING not doing anything when you had the chance, and for heaven’s sake DO something about the job before it becomes a minimum wage lost cause :neutral_face:

I did EB. I reached down there to measure and found that I had the balls to set up on my own rather than take H&S rubbish from the likes of Stobart and their peers. Because until it was my money on the line, I had absolutely no right to disregard the company rules and do it how I wanted to for no other reason than a deluded belief that I was better than them. Now I can do as I please and you know what, I agree with them on speed, there is absolutely no reason on earth why a modern HGV should need to exceed 56mph on a downhill gradient, especially the sort of vehicle which you were driving which by its nature is more aerodynamically efficient than mine.

MTM12:
I suppose it’s down to company policy and procedure. If policy says loaders are responsible for individual pallet quality, loading, and then zipping trailer up then they are responsible, if policy is for driver to carry out final quality check then he is responsible, (having been given enough time) for carrying out checks, policy could be a mixture of both of the above too.

Maybe loaders handling that product hadn’t done it before (new staff, agency etc.), as is often the case the driver cops blame, when bad management, training, procedure and lack of clear policy is responsible.

No MTM12, its not down to procedure. No company policy can override the law and the law says its the drivers responsibility to ensure the load is safe and secure prior to traveling.

142

‘ No MTM12, its not down to procedure. No company policy can override the law and the law says its the drivers responsibility to ensure the load is safe and secure prior to traveling. ‘

What law was broken? Did OP say the pallet had come out through the curtain or fell off the wagon? My post was written in the context of him getting a somewhat contentious bollocking from his employer for overspeed and collapsed pallet. If plod was busy running around worrying about collapsed pallets on wagons we would all be ■■■■■■! :grimacing:

MickM

143

simcor:
Show me where it says you can exceed a set speed limiter on a vehicle which requires it under use and construction regulations

The law doesn’t work like that - there’s no law that says it’s legal to eat beans on toast. We’re allowed beans on toast because there ISN’T a law that says we can’t.

Up to date construction and use regs aren’t available online - you’d have to go to the library, but the amendments relating to speed limiters are here:
36A The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 1993
36B The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 1993

From 36B:

(9) The requirements of this paragraph are that a speed limiter fitted to a paragraph (2) vehicle must be so adjusted that the stabilised speed of the vehicle does not exceed 56 mph.

And from 35A:

“set speed”, in relation to a calibrated speed limiter fitted to a vehicle, means the speed intended by the person who calibrated the speed limiter to be the mean speed of the vehicle when operating in a stabilised condition;
“speed limiter” means a device designed to limit the maximum speed of a motor vehicle by controlling the power output from the engine of the vehicle.
“stabilised speed” means the mean speed of a vehicle when its speed is under the control of a speed limiter and stable speed control has been achieved.

So 36B becomes - [the] speed limiter ~ must be so adjusted that “the speed of a vehicle when its speed is under the control of a speed limiter” does not exceed 56 mph.

If you’re rolling down hill, there’s no power output from the engine, so the limiter is still working as per the regs, but your speed is not under the control of it, therefore c+u regs regarding speed limiters don’t apply.

All overspeed is, is an alert. If you’ve driven past 4:15, the tacho will flash to alert you to a potential issue you may not be aware of. Overspeed is the same - an alert to a potential issue - in this case the speed limiter. But we know the speed limiter is fine, we’re just going downhill, so we can disregard it in the same way you’d not worry about it flashing 4:15 if you’re 5 minutes from the yard.

There was a vosa inspector on here a few years back -geebee somethingorother - I’ve never been able to find the post again, but the gist of what he posted on the subject was - a 1 or 2 minute overspeed is obviously just a hill, but there’s not many 20 min hills, so there may be something of interest to him if there’s a 20 min overspeed.

I’ve had coppers come past me at 70 and not an eyelid was batted. The only people that care wear pointy shoes and want everybody else to be as miserable as they pretend not to be.

So go on, let her go

144

I don’t care what the limiter is set at. It’s the powered speed. The stoneridge can go barmy all it likes downhill. I stick to each speed limit and the limit for a truck on a motorway and dual carriageway is 60. I’ve not had a problem so far,but if company policy was 50-something, provided I’ve not broken any laws they can go barmy all they like too.
You don’t have to go far from your front door to see a truck going downhill dabbing the brakes to keep it at 59/60.

145

Re. what Arronis says…
I’ve kinda kept quiet on this part of the thread as I was not 100% sure how you stood coasting over the limit downhill, but that is how I thought it was tbh.
I too have let it go on a downhill when there aint much in front of me, and also had a copper pass me whilst airborne. (J42 M6 Carlisle) who just carried on…didn’t see him coming btw otherwise I would have drew reign a bit. :blush:

146

I always understood the 56 was an EU directive but the 60 was the law. Could be being naive

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147

This thread just simply highlights the complete and utter paranoia amongst some drivers and the fear of getting in any kind of trouble.

LGV speed limit on a motorway=60mph. If you are going down a hill, most of the time you have to go back up one. Let her go to 65mph and you are under 10% over anyway, you also then have some momentum going back up. If you stick to 30 seconds or so over the limiter you will not get an infringement.

If you DO get an infringement, DVSA won’t storm the balcony in the dead of night to throw a flash bang into your bedroom whilst you are bumming a trampers wife.

Start getting a bloody grip FFS. Don’t some of you see that these companies are so absorbed in KPI’s and share prices etc that they don’t even know how far their collective heads are jammed up their corporate arses :unamused: It’s also very handy for (as already mentioned) the good old ’ divide and rule ’ scenario.

WAKE UP FOLKS FFS AND KEEP HER LIT.

148

P Stoff:
I always understood the 56 was an EU directive but the 60 was the law. Could be being naive

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.

Correct. ,

149

eagerbeaver:
yiuhis thread just simply highlights the complete and utter paranoia amongst some drivers and the fear of getting in any kind of trouble.

LGV speed limit on a motorway=60mph. If you are going down a hill, most of the time you have to go back up one. Let her go to 65mph and you are under 10% over anyway, you also then have some momentum going back up. If you stick to 30 seconds or so over the limiter you will not get an infringement.

If you DO get an infringement, DVSA won’t storm the balcony in the dead of night to throw a flash bang into your bedroom whilst you are bumming a trampers wife.

Start getting a bloody grip FFS. Don’t some of you see that these companies are so absorbed in KPI’s and share prices etc that they don’t even know how far their collective heads are jammed up their corporate arses :unamused: It’s also very handy for (as already mentioned) the good old ’ divide and rule ’ scenario.

WAKE UP FOLKS FFS AND KEEP HER LIT.

With reference to Paragraphs 1 and 4 you are absolutely correct! Common sense is firmly out the window! The Shareholder and Consumer are kings, workers don’t matter, have little or no say, and any form of opinion or dissent is fast becoming a firing squad offence!

MickM

150

eagerbeaver:
This thread just simply highlights the complete and utter paranoia amongst some drivers and the fear of getting in any kind of trouble.

LGV speed limit on a motorway=60mph. If you are going down a hill, most of the time you have to go back up one. Let her go to 65mph and you are under 10% over anyway, you also then have some momentum going back up. If you stick to 30 seconds or so over the limiter you will not get an infringement.

If you DO get an infringement, DVSA won’t storm the balcony in the dead of night to throw a flash bang into your bedroom whilst you are bumming a trampers wife.

Start getting a bloody grip FFS. Don’t some of you see that these companies are so absorbed in KPI’s and share prices etc that they don’t even know how far their collective heads are jammed up their corporate arses :unamused: It’s also very handy for (as already mentioned) the good old ’ divide and rule ’ scenario.

WAKE UP FOLKS FFS AND KEEP HER LIT.

:laughing: I know mate, some drivers are somewhere between paranoid and neurotic when it comes to sticking to the law.
They get all pmt about going over their time for all of a minute, or a few clicks over the speed limit. :laughing:
This is what ‘‘They’’ want us to be like, jumping through hoops and ■■■■ ing ourselves, just to keep us in order.
Unfortunately it looks like it’s evidently working among many drivers. :unamused:

Btw… like the tramper’s wife bit :laughing: … is that because I said you daymen were only playing at it. :wink: :laughing:
My Mrs would never stray as she knows she won the lottery being with me. :sunglasses: :smiley:

151

FWIW i totally agree that the whole overspeed thing is complete and utter ■■■■■■■■…60mph is the speed limit, when I go over that, then I’ll take an infringement…until then jog on.

But…what I cannot abide is the attitude that thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to spit the dummy out and take the truck back. It’s childish and immature.

Tell them to stick the infringement, stick the unpaid assessment and never go back there again…100% behind you on that. But don’t play to the stereotypical image of an ignorant truck driver by not having the professionalism to complete your days work.

I’d even support it if when you turned up for the days work, they sprang it on you then, and you turned round told them to ■■■■ off and went home. But once you’ve gone out the yard…?

Just think it paints a wrong picture of the supposed “professional” drivers everyone keeps telling us we are meant to be?

152

AndieHyde:
It was 25 years since I took the class one, but one of the things I took away from the training from that was that in certain circumstances, a driving examiner would expect you to speed.
For example, heading towards a big hill in a fully loaded truck, you could be failed for not giving it a 10% over speed as you were not gaining more momentum to tackle the gradient ahead.

Who was taking their test in a fully loaded truck? Round here it was a short flat or empty box van. I was under the impression that speeding was 1 of the few things that was instant fail.

153

Straight answer to Beaver’s question…“Would you take the truck back”?

I would, in Beaver’s circumstances…have done exactly the same thing as him.

In the last couple of years I have walked out three times in the middle of shifts whilst limping for different agencies/firms.

Once for Hermes (Warrington)…where I am banned from ever working again (thank god!), once for DHL…where I threatened to park
their truck up in Morecambe, half loaded and take the train home…before remembering that I’d left my car parked up at their depot!!
Then decided to drive the truck back to the depot mid-shift, where I was met by senior management at the depot entrance. I threw the
keys at the depot managers head (narrowly missing him), he demanded my staff depot swipe card…which I dropped down a drain. He then demanded that I download my digi card …which I refused to do. We almost ended up fighting…and suffice to say I will never be allowed to work for DHL again :smiley: :smiley:

Also Knowhow a couple of year’s back …which are all double-manned. We had just done a fridge delivery at a property near Preston train station. I told the driver’s mate that I was just nipping into the train station to go to the toilet…I never returned to the vehicle, and just jumped on the next train that was heading south. Got Mrs to pick me up from Wigan North Western 40 mins later.

I admire Beaver’s backbone and principles. Like him, I won’t accept being messed about and treated like s**t by jumped-up, pointy
shoe-wearing managers…who know next to nothing…spend half of their sad lives studying telematics etc…and of course have never done the job themselves!!

I’m a proud Wiganer, and I’ve got to say that most other men in this town thankfully have the same principles and attitude as I do.

Wigan was the largest mining town in the Lancashire coalfield, and my late father was a miner who was at the forefront of the miners strike in the 1980’s. I remember my Dad on the picket lines when I was a teenager. He instilled values into me which I will never forget. I’ll work hard and give 110% to a job if I’m treated fairly and right…but if I’m not… then I won’t hold back and take it up the ar*e …like many others seem to!

154

Lancsdriver7 Wrote

‘ I’ll work hard and give 110% to a job if I’m treated fairly and right…but if I’m not… then I won’t hold back and take it up the ar*e …like many others seem to! ‘

I’m with you on that.

MickM

155

Lancsdriver, if what you say is true regarding your ‘achievements’ in just two years then I would suggest that the problem lies not with the companies you have fallen out with. Trucks abandoned, managers nearly sparked out, cards dropped in a grid… it’s like reading something from one of the Sunday tabloids.

156

I’m getting the impression that the ’ Young Guns ’ on this subject are mainly on the side of the UK’s number one driver # Beaverfever.

Which can only be a good thing. I have great respect for my elders in general, but lately I am getting a bit ■■■■■■ off with some older drivers who are happy to tell me that they are happy on crap wages because ’ It’s just a bit of pin money for me Son '.

Problem is, the younger lads have another 30 years to go, so while it’s all very good for some older drivers to regale how great it is to have paid their mortgage, working for ■■■■ poor money simply sabotages the job for us kids.

Let’s hope us newer drivers who have never known ’ The good times ’ have a more staunch approach to the job, and start making some waves :sunglasses:

157

Olog Hai:
Lancsdriver, if what you say is true regarding your ‘achievements’ in just two years then I would suggest that the problem lies not with the companies you have fallen out with. Trucks abandoned, managers nearly sparked out, cards dropped in a grid… it’s like reading something from one of the Sunday tabloids.

More like something from the seventy’s, when if tut bog weren’t working, whole factory would walk out.

Just waiting for them to start there post “now then brother”

158

Maybe one or two on here think that Lancsdriver and Beaver aka UK’s no1 driver (his words not mine :smiley: ) are a bit ott in their actions.
My answer would be that so are these ‘‘up their own arse’’ type firms in their attitude and view of their drivers.
These guys want (and unfortunately usually get) brainwashed subservient robots who are virtually programmed to do any bloody silly or ridiculous instruction they are told to do.
These ■■■■ s do not want any form of initiative or resistance, I personally would last no more than 1 hour working for these pompous types of pricks, and I have already said how I would have dealt with Beav’s situation, just to show them…on the other hand I’m under no illusion that they would want me either,.as I am not the type of driver that fits their bill, nor wiuld I ever want to be, unless I had been in for my lobotomy.

So over the top reactions or not, these arse holes started it with their general schoolboy treatment approach towards drivers, and were reacted to appropriately I say…aka fighting fire with fire.

159

Olog Hai:
Lancsdriver, if what you say is true regarding your ‘achievements’ in just two years then I would suggest that the problem lies not with the companies you have fallen out with. Trucks abandoned, managers nearly sparked out, cards dropped in a grid… it’s like reading something from one of the Sunday tabloids.

I never described my three walk-outs as “achievements”!

During the couple of years that I did limping for different agencies, I must have worked at around 15 different firms. At most of the firms the job went reasonably well, I worked hard, was fairly treated, no issues, and in most cases the firms would gladly have me
back tomorrow. In fact two of the firms offered me a permanent job.

The 3 walk-outs involved firms who treated me (and many other drivers) very badly! At those three firms I was…not paid correctly for the hours that I did, given impossible time schedules and targets that no-one could ever hope to meet. Talked down to by management, constantly shouted at on the phone and mithered, told that I couldn"t stop to even go to the toilet between drops (Hermes).

At those three Firms (Hermes, DHL and KnowHow) I just snapped and decided that I would not take it any more!

Many other drivers have done the same. Hermes (Warrington) went through 700 drivers last year and are constantly advertising for drivers…because sooo many leave! If you don’t believe that just ask any driver in the north-west (most have either worked there, or know another driver who has worked there and left). When I was at DHL, 2 drivers had walked out mid-shift at that depot in the previous fortnight…one parking up and leaving the truck unlocked with the keys in the ignition…I kid you not!

Knowhow regularly have drivers walking out.

For last 3 months I’ve had a permanent job working nights for a large retailer. It’s not the highest, or lowest wages around, but the
other drivers are a great bunch, management treat you fairly and with respect. Drivers are not harrassed on the phone by the office, and are just allowed to get on with the job. It’s ok…and I give the job 110%, no issues and no problems.

Funnily enough I was on the shortlist for “employee of the month” last month…didn’t win it though…it went to one of the pointy-shoe’d planners in the office! …Some things will never change!! :smiley: :smiley:

160

I don’t know how much is bravado and how much is macho [zb] but if I have to endure a waiting room or tea van and listen to all the " I told them" " I’m not doing it" " I said you can stick that" etc etc it makes my heart sink. Do a good conscientious job and you will get to choose work and be placed in better work. If your working for an agency and you constantly spout Red Ken crap they are going to place you in the crap jobs.

I had a nice job in a nice little firm. They sold out to a big company earlier in the year. I lasted a month and couldn’t stand all the crap and in cab boxes. No communication with office, just bongs and jobs on the car cube. I left. No dramas, no paddies. It’s now their busiest time for two months. They phoned me a couple of weeks ago, did I want any work. I declined but I left a door open.

I die a bit every time I see these hero’s powering through yards and depots like idiots. I die with all this tailgating of each other and other road users. I felt very disillusioned with the response to my A9 complete ■■■■ post last week. The queue jumping, the filming of someone having a nightmare reverse instead of helping. I die at some of the subjects on this forum. Someone asks a perfectly sensible question and he’s either a troll or risks ridicule. Banter it’s called nowadays. I knew it a bullying in my day.

Knights of the road, drivers used to be called. Now we are thought of as dirty tear arses who keep killing people on roads. I have no doubt I will now face hostility but you know what I couldn’t give a stuff. I do a good job for people I want to work for. I could walk back into any company I have previously worked for. I have never been sacked or even received a warning. If that’s not having balls I can live with that.

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