Would you take the truck back?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
221

eagerbeaver:
Morning Rob. I think you are wasting your time with some on here mate, they simply do not have the stomach for it.

Disruption works. Of course try diplomatic means first, but make your opponent aware that if it comes to it, you are more than happy to pull the trigger when required :sunglasses:

What gets me is when you look on here, or just to talk to other drivers in real life, most aint exactly on cloud 9 about how things are in the job, and most complaints about the job are at company level.
(Fair enough many are ok with their present job and co., and some are o/drivers, so they should just crack on, it don’t apply to them)

Ok there maybe aint a lot we can do about stupid hours, the 15on 9 off ■■■■■■■■, that is at Government level, but the other stuff COULD be sorted with a bit of tactical joining together,.and a bit of effort…but.
We both know it won’t happen, but still the likes of you (and me) get stick on here for trying to look after number 1, (the only alternative) but you either do that or put up with all the crap.
Whether some agree with the methods used by you, me, or anybody else, is irrelavent, at least it shows some sort of resistance to being walked over and treated somewhere between crap and a schoolkid.

222

nsmith1180:

robroy:
Yeh ok, on the other hand the antihesis of that is the Rail Union.
Whether you agree with their methods or not, in terms of the disruption they may or may not cause, they represent their members well. :bulb:

No the don’t. Half the country hate the rail unions and ain’t too fond of the train drivers either for all that fuss over single operator trains last year. It was a textbook case of a group taking a stand over something that didn’t matter, hiding it under the guise of Health and Safety and bringing the South of England into chaos. All that resulted is that train drivers got a rep as moaners.

Same with the junior doctors. What did they achieve apart from to take a public that was largely supportive of their cause and turn a great number against them by going on strike, closing services and putting lives at risk, just so that the contract they were unhappy about could be imposed. They were never going to win, and they knew it because the government always had the power to say, ‘we are doing it weather you like it or not.’

EasyJet have a union and Ryanair do not it seems.

EasyJet staff seem very happy and the Ryanair staff have oppressive conditions apparently.

Yet I would buy my ticket on Easy all day long before I would buy it on Ryanair so I guess unions must be a good thing.

Or is it more of a case of when there is bad or unscrupulous management there is then a need for a good union or similar to balance the power so that the individual doesn’t get shafted ?

It is these get rich quick guys who are leading the race to the bottom and bringing decent players down with them. But when it collapses they will be long gone with their loot.

Workers at a good outfit won’t join a union as they have little to gain for their dues but their boss is probably praying the union gets into the place down the road who are cutting the rates to crap, growing like wildfire and paying crap wages and conditions.

Beaver, Rob and the rest of the dirty dozen or so on here will not turn the industry back from the brink on their own but unlike most they will retain their dignity above all.

For everyone else’s sake I think unions are the last hope before it’s too late. I have the names of at least a dozen good leaders to get started. :smiley:

Second Question is for Nsmith directly as your posts are usually on the money but your stance on this one surprises me.

Let’s say you have a regular cover driver on for the day and after the first drop he calls you to say there is no equipment to strap the now partial load and he thinks the load will topple at the back.

You instruct him to press on carefully but some of the stuff topples.

Is your response to him that you now want him to do a driving assessment■■?

Forget about the overspeeds from a different journey as the truck was within the legal posted speed limits at all times or else you must bring all drivers with legal overspeeds in for assessment which we know they do not.

Personally I would view such an assessment as a disciplinary action for the load topple and yet if the driver refused to move until straps were supplied I’m sure he would be in some trouble too.

What is your reply to your drivers phone call about no straps and your response to the said pallets toppling as a result Nick?

Assessment■■? Surely not or your driver will surely walk away as not so Eagerbeaver did this time.

223

Have we forgot some of the biggest unions have fought and sadly lost… Miners and steelworkers come to mind. Tanker drivers too not all that long ago and fellow drivers turned against them. As said I personally won’t roll over and will take on whoever if I feel I have a case, but would I so the same for Joe bloggs next door, that would take some serious thinking about…

224

dle1uk:
Have we forgot some of the biggest unions have fought and sadly lost… Miners and steelworkers come to mind. Tanker drivers too not all that long ago and fellow drivers turned against them. As said I personally won’t roll over and will take on whoever if I feel I have a case, but would I so the same for Joe bloggs next door, that would take some serious thinking about…

Why?

Divide and rule works only because people are selfish.

Once you see the bigger picture and start helping someone else, then you see that divide and rule can easily become overpowered.

It’s an illusion based on fear.

225

No fear, as said I happy to go it alone and have done in the past… But also past events have taught me a lesson, look on here and comments to every dozy post… A couple of issues he as mentioned could be fairly serious but how many fellow drivers on here would even think about supporting him… ? Your own posts surely point you in the direction that if you got 50 drivers in a room you would only get a few that would agree with you. Many cant even agree on the colour of the sky in a morning…

226

dle1uk:
No fear, as said I happy to go it alone and have done in the past… But also past events have taught me a lesson, look on here and comments to every dozy post… A couple of issues he as mentioned could be fairly serious but how many fellow drivers on here would even think about supporting him… ? Your own posts surely point you in the direction that if you got 50 drivers in a room you would only get a few that would agree with you. Many cant even agree on the colour of the sky in a morning…

We had an issue at our place regarding start times. Every driver moaned about it in the yard, but never did anything about it. I said that I’d raise the issue if everyone else backed me up. Needless to say that when I did speak to management, I did it alone.
Procedures were changed for the benefit of drivers, but not one of them thanked me for it.
Similar situation with our PPE. Despite every driver moaning about it being poor quality, only I put it to management. Subsequently our PPE was changed to a higher quality.
Why the hell should I put myself out for others who can’t be bothered to do it themselves. Now, I’ll only try to improve things for myself, improving things for others is merely a side effect.

227

eagerbeaver:
Why?

Divide and rule works only because people are selfish.

Once you see the bigger picture and start helping someone else, then you see that divide and rule can easily become overpowered.

It’s an illusion based on fear.

I wonder how long it will be before Eagerbeaver starts referring to me and those who agree, even in part with me, as capitolist imperialist pigs and everyone else as Comrade?

You do realise EB that even if you had been a full timer you got off easy? You took an unsecured load out onto a public road. Under a very strict interpretation of employment law that’s gross misconduct because you breached the regulations which form the procedural basis of a law passed by act of Parliament. That, as I say in a very strict interpretation, is criminal activity in a company vehicle on company time.

And before you try to say I am wrong here, if the DVSA had stopped you they could have placed a prohibition on the vehicle, ordering the load to be made safe before it was moved. In driving that unsafe load you could therefore be prosecuted for dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention. And no matter what you think, the ‘They loaded it, blame them’ defence won’t stand up in court.

So quit moaning, count your lucky stars that you could just say no and walk away and ammend your attitude. No matter what industry you find yourself in next, no employer is going to tolerate for long an employee who cries here are my rights in one breath and sod my obligations with the other.

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228

Captain Caveman 76:

dle1uk:
No fear, as said I happy to go it alone and have done in the past… But also past events have taught me a lesson, look on here and comments to every dozy post… A couple of issues he as mentioned could be fairly serious but how many fellow drivers on here would even think about supporting him… ? Your own posts surely point you in the direction that if you got 50 drivers in a room you would only get a few that would agree with you. Many cant even agree on the colour of the sky in a morning…

We had an issue at our place regarding start times. Every driver moaned about it in the yard, but never did anything about it. I said that I’d raise the issue if everyone else backed me up. Needless to say that when I did speak to management, I did it alone.
Procedures were changed for the benefit of drivers, but not one of them thanked me for it.
Similar situation with our PPE. Despite every driver moaning about it being poor quality, only I put it to management. Subsequently our PPE was changed to a higher quality.
Why the hell should I put myself out for others who can’t be bothered to do it themselves. Now, I’ll only try to improve things for myself, improving things for others is merely a side effect.[/qu

Spot on, the other side of it is you have to be prepared to support things that you may not agree with yourself… This day and age how many would seriously do this…

229

dle1uk:
Spot on, the other side of it is you have to be prepared to support things that you may not agree with yourself… This day and age how many would seriously do this…

The very reason I am not, will not, nor have I ever been a member of a union.

I won’t change my viewpoint because 51% of my colleagues disagree with me. The trade off for my independence of thought is that if I’m in the ■■■■, I’m in it on my own.

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230

dle1uk:
Have we forgot some of the biggest unions have fought and sadly lost… Miners and steelworkers come to mind. Tanker drivers too not all that long ago and fellow drivers turned against them. As said I personally won’t roll over and will take on whoever if I feel I have a case, but would I so the same for Joe bloggs next door, that would take some serious thinking about…

The miners are a good example but a unique situation.
It was pure politics. Thatcher did not want to make what she saw as a mistake made by previous governments, by giving them what they wanted, so she was determined to bring them down… along with every other Union.

Tbf I can see your point, there are some drivers that would (and do) any bloody thing they are told to :unamused: , no matter how unfair unjust or humiliating, we all have to endure these guys.
I am a bit like you and I think why tf should I stick my neck out for these pathetic arse wipes who queue up with their kecks around their ankles waiting for the next shafting.
If there was a group of like minded drivers who asked then demanded and then fought for nothing more than fairness in all aspects of the job …(and not 30 quid an hour and 4 days off a week) the job would be much more manageable…surely anybody can see that.

231

nsmith1180:

eagerbeaver:
Why?

Divide and rule works only because people are selfish.

Once you see the bigger picture and start helping someone else, then you see that divide and rule can easily become overpowered.

It’s an illusion based on fear.

I wonder how long it will be before Eagerbeaver starts referring to me and those who agree, even in part with me, as capitolist imperialist pigs and everyone else as Comrade?

You do realise EB that even if you had been a full timer you got off easy? You took an unsecured load out onto a public road. Under a very strict interpretation of employment law that’s gross misconduct because you breached the regulations which form the procedural basis of a law passed by act of Parliament. That, as I say in a very strict interpretation, is criminal activity in a company vehicle on company time.

And before you try to say I am wrong here, if the DVSA had stopped you they could have placed a prohibition on the vehicle, ordering the load to be made safe before it was moved. In driving that unsafe load you could therefore be prosecuted for dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention. And no matter what you think, the ‘They loaded it, blame them’ defence won’t stand up in court.

So quit moaning, count your lucky stars that you could just say no and walk away and ammend your attitude. No matter what industry you find yourself in next, no employer is going to tolerate for long an employee who cries here are my rights in one breath and sod my obligations with the other.

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I am not going to try and tell you that you are wrong. I am simply going to tell you that you ARE wrong.
In fact, I am going to break one of my golden rules. " Never prove how smart you are, you don’t NEED to ".

The trailer/curtains are XL rated…

I love people like you mate, know it all’s we used to call them as kids. But the thing is mate, nobody knows it all, and the minute you think you are clever you actually become weak because people like me allow you to carry on.

And while you are carrying on in your own magnificence, it allows me to go about my own agenda in relative secrecy :wink:

Oh by the way pal, you reek of fear. Fear of the authorities, fear of unemployment, fear of the courts, fear of DVSA etc. You are a weak and pathetic individual and the likes of me pity you :grimacing: On your best day, you are no match for me on my worst. Which is why I will be enjoying a weeks golf starting tomorrow whilst you scratch around trying to make a living :laughing:
(Don’t forget to wish me good luck btw for my new job starting a week on Monday :wink: )

PS. Amend has one ’ m ’ :laughing:

232

eagerbeaver:

nsmith1180:

eagerbeaver:
Why?

Divide and rule works only because people are selfish.

Once you see the bigger picture and start helping someone else, then you see that divide and rule can easily become overpowered.

It’s an illusion based on fear.

I wonder how long it will be before Eagerbeaver starts referring to me and those who agree, even in part with me, as capitolist imperialist pigs and everyone else as Comrade?

You do realise EB that even if you had been a full timer you got off easy? You took an unsecured load out onto a public road. Under a very strict interpretation of employment law that’s gross misconduct because you breached the regulations which form the procedural basis of a law passed by act of Parliament. That, as I say in a very strict interpretation, is criminal activity in a company vehicle on company time.

And before you try to say I am wrong here, if the DVSA had stopped you they could have placed a prohibition on the vehicle, ordering the load to be made safe before it was moved. In driving that unsafe load you could therefore be prosecuted for dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention. And no matter what you think, the ‘They loaded it, blame them’ defence won’t stand up in court.

So quit moaning, count your lucky stars that you could just say no and walk away and ammend your attitude. No matter what industry you find yourself in next, no employer is going to tolerate for long an employee who cries here are my rights in one breath and sod my obligations with the other.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

I am not going to try and tell you that you are wrong. I am simply going to tell you that you ARE wrong.
In fact, I am going to break one of my golden rules. " Never prove how smart you are, you don’t NEED to ".

The trailer/curtains are XL rated…

I love people like you mate, know it all’s we used to call them as kids. But the thing is mate, nobody knows it all, and the minute you think you are clever you actually become weak because people like me allow you to carry on.

And while you are carrying on in your own magnificence, it allows me to go about my own agenda in relative secrecy :wink:

Oh by the way pal, you reek of fear. Fear of the authorities, fear of unemployment, fear of the courts, fear of DVSA etc. You are a weak and pathetic individual and the likes of me pity you :grimacing: On your best day, you are no match for me on my worst. Which is why I will be enjoying a weeks golf starting tomorrow whilst you scratch around trying to make a living [emoji38]
(Don’t forget to wish me good luck btw for my new job starting a week on Monday :wink: )

PS. Amend has one ’ m ’ [emoji38]

Must be a wind up.

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233

What must be a wind up? :confused:

234

You’re fanatical egotistical response. Did make me laugh though

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235

P Stoff:
You’re fanatical egotistical response. Did make me laugh though

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Why is it egotistical? Maybe you sympathise with the other chap, perhaps you are a frightened little sparrow too?

Run along good little boy… :laughing: Make sure you keep to the rules & bend over a little.

236

eagerbeaver:
I am not going to try and tell you that you are wrong. I am simply going to tell you that you ARE wrong.
In fact, I am going to break one of my golden rules. " Never prove how smart you are, you don’t NEED to ".

The trailer/curtains are XL rated…

If you are trying to break one of your golden rules about being smart, try to get your facts straight:

Load Securing: Vehicle Operators Guidance on .gov.uk:
6.1 Curtain-sided bodies and EN 12642 XL rating

Even with load retaining curtains, a standard curtain-sided vehicle or trailer body won’t normally give enough load securing.

The body structure and curtains only provide weather protection for the load. Load and secure goods the same as you would on a flatbed vehicle.

EN 12642 (BS EN 12642 in the UK) is a build standard for vehicle and trailer bodies. It sets out two types that can be built:

standard body types (L)
reinforced body types (XL)

Vehicle and trailer bodies don’t have to be built to this standard in the UK but XL bodies are a useful part of the load securing system.
Light goods

You can secure goods or unstacked pallets that weigh less than 400kg per item:

using buckle straps that hang from the roof of the body structure
with inner curtains - see light palletised goods

Treat goods and pallets over 400kg - and stacked pallets if the combined weight of the stack is more than 400kg - as heavy goods.
Heavy goods

Secure heavy goods that weigh more than 400kg per item or pallet with:

lashing
load-rated nets
tarpaulins with integral straps

Whatever method you use, it must be able to restrain half the weight of the load to the side and rear, and the full weight forward.

This is the minimum standard for normal road driving.

As for the spelling mistake, sorry but I was on my phone and mistakenly trusted predictive text.

P Stoff:
You’re fanatical egotistical response. Did make me laugh though

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I thought you were on about me there. TBH I was winding up slightly, it is after all the most extreme interpretation of the law, but if I were an operator stuck with egoBeaver for a driver, I’d be looking at every loophole I could to get shot of him.

237

eagerbeaver:

P Stoff:
You’re fanatical egotistical response. Did make me laugh though

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Why is it egotistical? Maybe you sympathise with the other chap, perhaps you are a frightened little sparrow too?

Run along good little boy… :laughing: Make sure you keep to the rules & bend over a little.

Tell em beaver. Nice to hear someone with the right attitude than the bloody herd that all keep thinking they are professional. :smiley: :smiley:

238

Roymondo:
I think I agree with ■■■■■ here - “Having a backbone” doesn’t involve dumping the motor and load and scuttling off home, leaving several parties (not just Culina and the agency) potentially out of pocket at the very least. A more adult response would (from my POV - YMMV of course) involve completing the job that you have been contracted to do and then having a grown-up conversation with da management at both Culina and the agency about why you won’t be doing an assessment without being paid for your time.

As it stands, both the agency and Culina will be looking at this from a dummy spitting driver standpoint, with the behaviour exhibited confirming to both parties that drivers are indeed on a par with the stuff you scrape off your boots.

Management should never expect any work to be done without pay - it does not even need to be discussed (especially lest some workers feel overborne by the mere stating of the expectation).

It may be that some drivers feel the only effective remedy to the existence of such an expectation, is the immediate downing of tools or cessation of work until the expectation is renounced, or even the indefinite conclusion of the relationship, and I would not want to contradict them.

Leaving those involved out of pocket is the whole point of stopping work in such circumstances, not an unintended by-product.

239

Hilarious. Methinks the lady protests too much. If you are for real. Your really are a twunt.

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240

P Stoff:
Hilarious. Methinks the lady protests too much. If you are for real. Your really are a twunt.

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Maybe I am, who knows?

Better than being one of these though…

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