seen a couple of jobs advertised as 110 per shift 10 hour shifts but job and knock. I thought it was illegal to incentivise people to rush the job never mind it being below nlw
ÂŁ110 per 10hr shift is below national minimum wage.
Are they new ? I can still see jobs advertised from several years back .
âJob and knockâ in my mind, is downright dangerous.
Iâd not touch a contract like that with a bargepole, thanks.
Thereâs no shortage of illegal adverts in this industry, not just the one youâve seen, but all the âguaranteed 60 per week minimumâ and such like, not to mention the âLTD/self-employedâ welcome, and those that quote âtake homeâ pay.
@zac_a am i right in thinking though that it is illegal to have a pay structure that encourages law breaking or have i got something muddled.
Totally muddle-free: any operator who is seen to be incentivising drivers to break the rules would be taken to task by the TC in a major way.
Itâs a breach of one of the O-licence undertakings, and to have gotten the O-licence originally, they will have signed a formal declaration that they would not do this, and the declaration makes it clear that for several of the undertakings, any breach would be a criminal offence.
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Job and finish in my case just meant getting paid for a 10 hour shift but often only did 5 or 6 hours.
Based on whether it was a double run or just one we got paid the same.Best terms and conditions I ever had.
Car transporter drivers are incentivised to speed etc due to their pay structure. Drive safe, take your time earn ÂŁ35k, run your arse off break speed limits, max out hours earn ÂŁ56k.
all i can find is that its illegal to offer a pay structure based on piece work ie this much per hour plus this much per load/pallet delivered or i guess in your example this much per car collected/delivered. I must admit though the majority of proper transporters are driven sensibly with maybe the odd bca steering wheel attendant
Hoyer (red fleet not petrol) and Turners both pay on piece rate. As long as you can achieve the minimum wage there is nothing illegal about it.
Doesnât make it right though it just boils down to if you donât want to work that way then donât take the job.
Donât see how a day rate is any different to a salaried position so again I canât see why that would be illegal either. It all boils down to whether the driver can resist his or her urges to tip on break or not, the company will be covering their arses on that matter you can be sure.
as i say this is all i can find
You cannot pay your employees based on speed of delivery, distance travelled or the amount of goods carried if this encourages drivers to break the rules.
i assume that means the laws of the road as well as tacho rules
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Not exactly the same thing as job and finish.
That generally just means youâll be paid for your contracted hours or âminimumâ hours regardless if you finish early because of a lighter workload âjobâ meaning a shorter shift.
Itâs even better with the type of terms we had with strict interpretation of the definition of âjobâ.So if youâre only given a short run you still get overtime above the contracted hours if you do a âdifferentâ run/job when you get back.
IE start at 8 pm finish 5 or 6 am but still get overtime because the allocated âjobâ was finished at 2am.
Ironically as usual the Union sold those terms out.
Donât get Winseerâs issues in that regard.
Job and Finish THESE days is 12 hours work that you only get paid 10 hours for⌠Then they tell you on top âYouâll be paid for your meal breaks- Honest!â
Will you?
People ârushing aboutâ is going to put both workforce and the public at riskâŚ
IMO ârush jobsâ are the most dangerous H&S infringement that one can do in the workplace, both on a regular basis, and actually ENCOURAGED by management, rather than disciplined forâŚ
Thereâs a reason that certain employers are losing money despite paying their staff less, whilst other firms pay top dollar, and their profits go from strength to strengthâŚ
Where do get rushing the job from? Itâs a poor rate granted.
Because it only makes sense to take the job if you can complete 10 hrs work in 5 or so hours.
Going back one my 1st jobs was salaried/ set wage every week⌠was working for a small manufacturing company delivery there products to site
For first year or so was great but over time was more traffic on the roads as was when they were starting to roll out smart motorway works
Plus added extra drops on.
And before knew it was only earning just aboves sometimes below minimum wage.
I complained was offered an extra ÂŁ10 a week. On my wages.
Not soon after I left and will never go back to salaried / set rate /day rate.
As itâs just a fancy way to pay you minimum wages.
Plus if worse happens your sat on M6 for hours due to accident your at least getting paid when paid hourly
Thatâs not job and finish Winseer.Thats a non payment of/for overtime and excessive workload to reduce wage levels scam.Some might try to then rush the job to create the illusion of getting finished within their supposed hours.
That would apply to any type of wage structure whether hourly or salary especially salary.
But as in my example ironically far less, if at all, in the case of a proper job and finish agreement.
While hourly pay is totally dependent on the workload expected during a shift.
Also both salary and hourly create scope for the employer regarding the definition of âjobâ which then translates as other duties like yard or warehouse work to meet the âcontracted hoursâ.
I think I was lucky, or unlucky, enough to just catch the last of the type of terms and conditions which 70âs style militancy and the old generation workforce bought us.Which effectively often meant getting paid for around 50 hours per week for less than 40 hours work.Which at least made working nights viable.
Donât forget that the worker wonât actually KNOW that theyâre being scammed - until theyâve done this proverbial 12 hours in 10 a few enough times to realize that the job simply cannot be done in the time allocated, unless you take cerain âlibertiesââŚ
Example:
I used do do PalletRuns when I first started out on agency, over a decade ago.
The âhubâ was somewhere about 4hr 20min driving away, such as Burton on Trent or Lichfield if memory serves, and you needed to engage on the following dodgy practices IF you were going to get back legally (on paper) within the 15 hour limit.
(1) Take your break on a derv island at a motorway service area (15 minutes) No time to get anything to eat, but you could just about have a â â â â â , IF you didnât have to queue to use the BP loos (no time to walk across to the main MSA bit)
(2) Take a half-hour break whilst in the tip queue, timing it so you inch forward, undo your curtains, avoid inching forward just as your tacho is about to clock over to the next minute.
If you stay still, let the digidevice clock over, THEN inch foward, let it auto-âotherwork selectâ, then immediately switch it back to âBreakâ - it will measure your progress along the tip queue as a âcontnuiousâ break of 30 minutes you need to take legallly. (Dunno if the more modern tacho units still operate that wayâŚ)
(3) You are constantly stopping and starting whilst going into the barn to get tipped.
(4) At the end of it, youâve HAD no proper break, where you could get something to eat, get your head down (overnight run) or otherwise be able to âdispose of your time as you wishâ.
(5) Rush back, getting back to your starting yard well over 13 hours into the shift, meaning youâre gonna use up your reduce rests by wednesdayâŚ
I quit the job after I got home from wednesday nightâs run on Thursday morning, whilst I was still being paid for every hour, as I was âtemp to permâ straight out the gate.
Got my money OK, but I didnât see a way I could shave enough time off the job to keep it legal, without some kind of âqueue jumpingâ going on, which I later found out was exactly the way the full timers âgot around all the pitfallsâ.
The full timers were doing the job in 12-13 hours, and keeping it legal OK - JUST.
That was still over a 60 hour working week though, for a measley monkey gross per week at the timeâŚ
The real âArse endâ of trucking, driving those curtainsider double deckers around, I can tell you! They wobble in the wind, get loaded top heavy all the time, and if youâre stuck in a traffic jam on the M1 - youâre not gonna make the 4hr20m run - so you have to take a break at a MSA, wich mucho moanas by the non-english gaffers at the hub when you finally got there, so late that it took you extra time to traverse the tip queueâŚ
im missing something here⌠9 hours of driving leaves 6 hours for tipping checks and breaks. or 4 hours if you donât have a reduced rest