Everytime you go into a vehicle and that vehicle goes on the public road all driving is in scope.
If that vehicle doesn’t go on the public road, all driving is not in scope and can be counted as working time.
Example:
Start of duty and I am told to pick up unit A and do some shunting for a couple of hours. I insert my digi card and select “out of scope” (I can because I am not going on a public road). I am now accounting for the miles spent driving onsite (eg the all miles from when the vehicle was last used until the end of the shunting shift are accounted for) but the time spent driving doesn’t count towards my driving time.
I then pick up unit B and go out on the road. When I insert the card “out of scope” can’t be selected as it is going out on the road and the vehicle is not out of scope and all the driving will count as driving time.
Well… that is how it was explained to me and if you read the rules carefully it makes sense.
Wheel Nut:
So in future I am going to take my own advice, don’t use the VOSA Guides, the DFT business link or even trade magazines.
The 561/2006 regulations are the only one to listen to.
That’s a very easy mistake to make. One I’ve found to my own cost on more than one occasion
But . . . . . . .
Wheel Nut:
The link I put on page one of this thread explains the new generation digital tacho, this will avoid some of the above.
A new generation of driver-friendly digital tachographs will allow activities to be recorded in greater detail, so that non-driving time does not end up being recorded as driving time.
At present, if a driver continues driving for part of a minute, that whole minute is recorded as driving time. Changes agreed by a European Commission technical committee will allow for the greatest activity in a single calendar minute to take precedence. If the two activities are equal, the last activity takes precedence. A driver who takes an extra 20 seconds to park will find that the tachograph defaults to ‘other work’ because that occupies the greater part of that minute. Drivers will benefit because most non-driving time will no longer be recorded as driving time.
Bloody Hell !!!
I was just about to bed down, but I think I’ll click that link for a little bedtime reading
Firstly let me say to dambuster that I think you need to get your tachograph checked, the information you’ve given seems to suggest that it’s faulty and recording other work as driving time, I use a digital tachograph daily and I’ve used them on several other vehicles and never had one perform in the manner you describe, it should certainly be reverting to either rest or other work after a couple of minutes at the most
Now back to the off-road driving discussion
Wheel Nut:
Well this case is now closed as I am going to do the biggest U turn in the world.
Case closed !!, not on your life
The example given in the FTA booklet is of a tipper driver going onto public roads to get to a site where he will work (drive) until returning to base via public roads again.
I think they’re seeing the site driving basically as part of the same journey, you drive to site purposely to move goods around therefore it’s all the same job or journey, have to say that I find that a bit dubious but …
The situation we was originally discussing was of someone moving trailers or goods around a yard before starting a journey which is different to what’s described in that FTA booklet.
By your reckoning a journey is a shift, therefore if I travel from Birmingham to London and back to base, then go from Birmingham to Bristol it’s all part of the same journey, well I would see that as two separate journeys and every dictionary I see seems to agree with me
Sorry but I’m sticking to what I’ve said on this one, where a journey (journey = the act of travelling from one place to another) does not involve on-road driving it’s classed as other work.
A journey is not the same as a shift, moving trailers around a yard where no part of the journey involves on-road driving is off-road and therefore out of scope of EU regulations so classed as other work.
From the moment you put your digi card in a motor until such time you take the card out of that motor and that motor goes on the public highway all driving is classed as in scope driving. It doesn’t matter how many stops it makes or where these stops are.
However, if you put your digi card in a motor and take it out of that motor when finished with it and that motor hasn’t been on the public highway, all of the driving done in that motor in between the two times is out of scope and counts as working time rather than driving time. It doesn’t matter how many stops are made.
The vehicle makes the journey from the beginning of your shift until the end of your shift. So if that said vehicle goes on the public road during this period of time it counts as driving, no matter if it goes via Birmingham to London to base and then from Birmingham to Bristol - that vehicle that you are driving has been on the public road.
It is the vehicle’s activity that is being driven that is either in or out of scope.
I’m sticking to that version as verified with VOSA.
Perhaps an email to VOSA to clarify in order that the correct advise to those reading is given.
A driver in vehicle A inserts his card in the morning and drives from base to London, back to base, then makes some shunt movements before proceeding from base to Bristol and back. He then finishes his shift and ejects the card. All these activities are done in one motor - no motors are changed.
Would the activities at the base in between the two journes to London and Brisol be classed as “out of scope” driving and therefore don’t count towards driving time but are rather counter as other work?
How about the same driver making these movements at base in another vehicle:
Driver inserts card in vehicle A then drives from base to London back to base. He then ejects the card.
Driver then poceeds to vehicle B and inserts the card and makes some shunt movements. He then ejects the card.
Driver then goes back to vehicle A and drives from base to Bristol and back.
Would the driving activities in vehicle B be classified as “out of scope” and therefore don’t count as driving time but other work instead?
one minute youve got drivers slagging the company off because theyve not had a pay rise, the next there moaning that digi tachos are limiting how nuch work they can get done in a shift,is it just me
interlog:
The vehicle makes the journey from the beginning of your shift until the end of your shift.
Presumably you mean from the time you start using the vehicle until you stop using the vehicle, I can’t deny that does seem to be the way the regs define a “journey” which I think is basically what we’re talking about.
hmmm not so sure now
By the way I don’t think there’s any disagreement about vehicle “B” in your email being out of scope as it doesn’t go on-road and neither does the driver whilst using it
tachograph:
Presumably you mean from the time you start using the vehicle until you stop using the vehicle,
Yep that was what I meant.
Haven’t received a reply from VOSA as yet, but they are well known not putting anything in writing. Quite happy to give verbal advice but very reluctant confirming it in writing.
tachograph:
Firstly let me say to dambuster that I think you need to get your tachograph checked, the information you’ve given seems to suggest that it’s faulty and recording other work as driving time, I use a digital tachograph daily and I’ve used them on several other vehicles and never had one perform in the manner you describe, it should certainly be reverting to either rest or other work after a couple of minutes at the most
Now back to the off-road driving discussion
I tried that yesterday.
Me “I want to book my wagon/tacho off. It’s not recording short periods of stationary activity”
Him “Yeah, they all do that. Now’t we can do about it”
The really funny part of it is that under a new system we have for defecting, nothing gets done without a reference number. “They” won’t issue a reference number because “They all do that. Now’t we can do about it”
