On Friday I set off from Leeds depot (1 minute from M1) swapped a trailer at coca cola at J41 then started heading for Morrisons at Burton Latimer. As I was passing J39 Denby Dale I noticed my driving time on the tacho and I couldnt believe it. At best I would of done 20-25 mins driving, but because of all the stop starting in yard/coke it was actually 1 hour and 12 minutes! By the time I had reached Burton Latimer with a stop for a paper it was 3 hours 34 mins.
Now just looked on Google Maps and its only 130 miles which means I have averaged 34 mph…even though I never got held up on motorway or A14.
Just got me wondering…I used to do a job years ago where before we went anywhere, 3 of us used to move a load of trailers round yard ready for when loaders came in. With new digital tacho, doing this, would it actually show more driving time than duty time after all the shunts?
DS074:
Just got me wondering…I used to do a job years ago where before we went anywhere, 3 of us used to move a load of trailers round yard ready for when loaders came in. With new digital tacho, doing this, would it actually show more driving time than duty time after all the shunts?
Possibly, who knows
If the whole journey is off road as it would be moving trailers that you’re not taking on to public roads then it doesn’t count towards the driving time.
If you move a trailer in the yard and it’s not the trailer you will be taking onto the roads then put the digital tachograph on off-road (out of scope)
you gotta remember coke wakefield is a long way round at 10 mph ! and if theres a que to get on the weighbridge, stop starting uses the time !
Tachograph
I was under the impression “out of scope” is no longer used, if the vehicle is moving it counts as driving, I might be talking out of my bottom again though !
There is no Off road driving now it was changed in April 2007 so it all counted as Driving time, it mainly affected Tipper Drivers who had previously booked Time driving in the Quarry as Other Work.
Where the whole of a journey is off road such as it would be when moving trailers around a yard then that driving counts as “other work”, as far as I can remember you record this as out of scope on the digital tachograph (it’s a long time since I’ve done it)
Page 14 - Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs: Note: Driving time includes any off-road parts of a journey where the rest of that journey is made on
the public highway. Journeys taking place entirely off road would be considered as ’other work’.
So, for example, any time spent driving off road between a parking/rest area and a loading bay prior to
travelling on a public road would constitute driving time, but it would be regarded as other work where
an entire load is picked up and deposited on the same off-road site.
As the tachograph records the activity of the unit/driver and not the trailer, if that unit during its shift goes out on the public highway, out of scope can’t apply.
It doesn’t matter if the 1st trailer pulled is being shunted around a yard for hours on end, then dropped and the second trailer picked up and moved off site - all that driving will count as driving time.
interlog:
As the tachograph records the activity of the unit/driver and not the trailer, if that unit during its shift goes out on the public highway, out of scope can’t apply.
Well out of scope surely won’t apply for the journey that’s done partly on public roads if that’s what you mean, however if you mean that all driving time for the day has to be counted as part of the daily driving time weather on public roads or not then I can only suggest that you do some studying and learn what facilities are available on the digital tachograph .
interlog:
It doesn’t matter if the 1st trailer pulled is being shunted around a yard for hours on end, then dropped and the second trailer picked up and moved off site - all that driving will count as driving time.
That’s completely wrong.
When driving off road as you would be when moving trailers around a yard and not going on roads open to the public you put the digital tachograph on “Out of Scope”.
Main menu.
Scroll down to “Entry Vehicle”.
Scroll down to “Out begin” and press “OK”.
To put the vehicle back in scope.
Main menu.
Scroll down to “Entry Vehicle”.
Scroll down to “Out end” and press “OK”.
All “out of scope” driving times will be recorded between the out of scope times which do not count towards the daily driving time.
DS074:
Just got me wondering…I used to do a job years ago where before we went anywhere, 3 of us used to move a load of trailers round yard ready for when loaders came in. With new digital tacho, doing this, would it actually show more driving time than duty time after all the shunts?
Nah it wouldn’t but every slight movement of more than 2 secs i think is recorded as driving time for that minute. Its more likely to record all the duty time as driving if your stop starting all the time tho.
it is a joke the amount of time it puts on the card, getting out the depot on a good day is 10mins usually more like 15mins, actual movements prob less than 5mins, same with coming back in putting it on a bay getting the salvage taken off, then getting fuel for the fridge then parking another 20mins easily.
Considering i’m doing two to three runs a day, its a lot of extra time, a good hour and a half. Luckly my job doesent involve huge amounts of driving, typical lucky to get to 7 hours driving in a day. Even still a trip from Glasgow to Edinburgh and back can easily hit over 4 hours driving, if traffic is heavy.
Kenny1975:
Well out of scope surely won’t apply for the journey that’s done partly on public roads if that’s what you mean, however if you mean that all driving time for the day has to be counted as part of the daily driving time weather on public roads or not then I can only suggest that you do some studying and learn what facilities are available on the digital tachograph .
The buttons on the tacho don’t mean nothing. It is the rules that count:
Vehicles used for the carriage of goods by road and with a maximum permissible weight (including any trailer or semi-trailer) of over 3.5 tonnes are in scope of the EU rules. ‘Carriage by road’ is defined as any journey entirely or in part made on roads open to the public of a vehicle, laden or unladen, used for the carriage of passengers or goods. ‘Off-road’ driving is in scope where it forms part of a journey that also takes place on public roads. Journeys made that are entirely ‘off-road’ are out of scope of the EU rules.
When you start your shift and your vehicle goes on the road during that shift, it can’t be entirely “off road” and therefore can’t be out of scope.
The rules are actually quite clear:
The EU rules (Regulation (EC) 561/2006) apply to drivers of most vehicles used for the carriage of goods (including dual purpose vehicles) where the maximum permissible weight of the vehicle, including any trailer or semi-trailer, exceeds 3.5 tonnes and where the vehicle is used within the UK or between the UK and other EU and EEA countries and Switzerland. Vehicle operations that take place off the public road or vehicles that are never used to carry goods on a public road are out of scope. Additionally drivers who never carry goods or passengers in the course of their employment are not considered to be within scope of the regulations. This covers operations such as the delivery and recovery of hire vehicles and empty vehicles taken for annual test.
That covers shunt units and shunters. It applies to a vehicle that never goes on the road. So yes, you can do a bit of shunting in the yard in a unit that never goes off the road and it would not be classified as driving. However, you use a unit to do shunting and then take that same unit on the road and it then would be classified as drive time.
If you use a unit and spend three hours moving trailers round the yard you can use out of scope, once you have picked up the trailer you’re taking out it will then become in scope. Or if you know you are going to spend three hours shunting then don’t put your card in till you start doing your checks before going out and make a manual entry. None of this helps the OP though because he drove from one depot to another, swapped trailers and carried on, so that was definately in scope.
tofer:
If you use a unit and spend three hours moving trailers round the yard you can use out of scope, once you have picked up the trailer you’re taking out it will then become in scope.
Even a short period of driving under EU rules during any day by a driver will mean that he is in scope of the EU rules for the whole of that day and must comply with the daily driving, break and rest requirements; he will also have to comply with the weekly rest requirement and driving limit.
Yes ROG but last time I looked, time spent driving a vehicle on private premises did not count as being in scope and would be classed as other work. IE if you spent half hour putting your trailer on a bay, then fueling, then back on the bay then out on the road, that is scope. I shunt in the yard and regularly have to collect vehicles from an offsite workshop 10km away, the on road driving puts me in scope so I have to obey all daily rest requirements etc but that’s not to say that I have to record all the driving I’ve done in the yard as driving, it’s other work for purposes of WTD.
tofer:
Yes ROG but last time I looked, time spent driving a vehicle on private premises did not count as being in scope and would be classed as other work. IE if you spent half hour putting your trailer on a bay, then fueling, then back on the bay then out on the road, that is scope. I shunt in the yard and regularly have to collect vehicles from an offsite workshop 10km away, the on road driving puts me in scope so I have to obey all daily rest requirements etc but that’s not to say that I have to record all the driving I’ve done in the yard as driving, it’s other work for purposes of WTD.
If you are using a unit that is legally road worthy then it is DRIVING and not OTHER WORK if you do any in-scope driving during that work day.
If you are using a purpose built shunter then it is OTHER WORK
tofer:
Yes ROG but last time I looked, time spent driving a vehicle on private premises did not count as being in scope and would be classed as other work. IE if you spent half hour putting your trailer on a bay, then fueling, then back on the bay then out on the road, that is scope. I shunt in the yard and regularly have to collect vehicles from an offsite workshop 10km away, the on road driving puts me in scope so I have to obey all daily rest requirements etc but that’s not to say that I have to record all the driving I’ve done in the yard as driving, it’s other work for purposes of WTD.
If you are using a unit that is legally road worthy then it is DRIVING and not OTHER WORK if you do any in-scope driving during that work day.
If you are using a purpose built shunter then it is OTHER WORK
I’m sure I’ve got that correct…
Your sure, that your final answer wanna phone a friend (pref coffeeholic/geebee45/tachograph) or take 50/50
