On a DCPC course I was warned not to keep a digi tacho card in the same wallet as bank cards as the magnetic strip on the back will wipe all the information from it.
If these cards are so sensitive to magnets then can we be in trouble if the card gets wiped?
Red Squirrel:
On a DCPC course I was warned not to keep a digi tacho card in the same wallet as bank cards as the magnetic strip on the back will wipe all the information from it.
There is a lot of ■■■■■■■■ taught on DCPC courses.
I hope this helps.
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
On a DCPC course I was warned not to keep a digi tacho card in the same wallet as bank cards as the magnetic strip on the back will wipe all the information from it.There is a lot of ■■■■■■■■ taught on DCPC courses.
I hope this helps.
I doesn’t really.
What I’m asking is If the card got wiped/damaged so it was unreadable by any means, can we get in trouble?
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
On a DCPC course I was warned not to keep a digi tacho card in the same wallet as bank cards as the magnetic strip on the back will wipe all the information from it.There is a lot of ■■■■■■■■ taught on DCPC courses.
I hope this helps.
I doesn’t really.
What I’m asking is If the card got wiped/damaged so it was unreadable by any means, can we get in trouble?
No, if the card stops working for some reason then you simply contact the DVLA and get a replacement, free of charge. You continue to work by taking printouts at the start and end of each shift until your new card arrives, up to a maximum of 15 days.
Most cards work fine, some will not work from new or stop working at some point and it doesn’t really matter where you keep them as to whether that happens or not. Obviously a Microwave Oven is probably not a good place.
All the cards I have had so far, three, have worked perfectly and they have all lived in my wallet, next to several cards with magnetic strips on them and at times I even sit on it when it’s in my back pocket. My card is currently in my wallet and my mobile is lying on top of the wallet ready for me to pick up both when I head to work later, you also get told the world will end if you put your card near your mobile. When we still worked out of Hatfield the digi card was scanned every shift by the entry gate system, my ID card was in the wallet with the digi and I just used to press my wallet against the scanner/reader thing.
You can take ultra care of your card and it can still fail. You can not really bother too much about looking after it and it will work for 5 years. It’s pretty much down to luck, although companies who sell special holders and carriers would have you believe otherwise. 
Coffeeholic:
No, if the card stops working for some reason then you simply get a replacement, free of charge.
OK, Thanks for that.
Coffeeholic:
There is a lot of ■■■■■■■■ taught on DCPC courses.I hope this helps.
Still very true though
Red Squirrel:
On a DCPC course I was …
This is the third thread where you have raised stuff you have been told on your DCPC course and all instances have been ■■■■■■■■, Can you contact the trainer and get your money back on the grounds it was more incompetence than competence? 
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
On a DCPC course I was …This is the third thread where you have raised stuff you have been told on your DCPC course and all instances have been ■■■■■■■■, Can you contact the trainer and get your money back on the grounds it was more incompetence than competence?
I’m certain two of the instances have been ■■■■■■■■ now.
I take it you’re still sticking to your guns about not having to be free to dispose of your time when clocking break/POA then as I’m not convinced and I wouldn’t say I agreed if I wasn’t convinced in case it led someone else astray.
I’m pretty well convinced the bank card thing is ■■■■■■■■ and I didn’t know you could replace your card for free.
So once again, thanks very much for your help.
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
On a DCPC course I was …This is the third thread where you have raised stuff you have been told on your DCPC course and all instances have been ■■■■■■■■, Can you contact the trainer and get your money back on the grounds it was more incompetence than competence?
I’m certain two of the instances have been ■■■■■■■■ now.
I take it you’re still sticking to your guns about not having to be free to dispose of your time when clocking break/POA then as I’m not convinced and I wouldn’t say I agreed if I wasn’t convinced in case it led someone else astray.
I’m pretty well convinced the bank card thing is ■■■■■■■■ and I didn’t know you could replace your card for free.
So once again, thanks very much for your help.
The only time that you have to, “be free to dispose of your time” is when you are taking a daily or weekly rest period. Who was your CPC trainer? Conor Turton…
Wheel Nut:
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
On a DCPC course I was …This is the third thread where you have raised stuff you have been told on your DCPC course and all instances have been ■■■■■■■■, Can you contact the trainer and get your money back on the grounds it was more incompetence than competence?
I’m certain two of the instances have been ■■■■■■■■ now.
I take it you’re still sticking to your guns about not having to be free to dispose of your time when clocking break/POA then as I’m not convinced and I wouldn’t say I agreed if I wasn’t convinced in case it led someone else astray.
I’m pretty well convinced the bank card thing is ■■■■■■■■ and I didn’t know you could replace your card for free.
So once again, thanks very much for your help.The only time that you have to, “be free to dispose of your time” is when you are taking a daily or weekly rest period. Who was your CPC trainer? Conor Turton…
Conor Turton? I don’t know who you mean there.
I discussed the reasons I wasn’t convinced in the thread “Night working…” and I’d gladly put my hands up and admit I’m wrong if someone would show me something credible to debunk what I was pointing out. Meanwhile I’ve said I’m willing to agree to disagree.
Red Squirrel:
Wheel Nut:
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
On a DCPC course I was …This is the third thread where you have raised stuff you have been told on your DCPC course and all instances have been ■■■■■■■■, Can you contact the trainer and get your money back on the grounds it was more incompetence than competence?
I’m certain two of the instances have been ■■■■■■■■ now.
I take it you’re still sticking to your guns about not having to be free to dispose of your time when clocking break/POA then as I’m not convinced and I wouldn’t say I agreed if I wasn’t convinced in case it led someone else astray.
I’m pretty well convinced the bank card thing is ■■■■■■■■ and I didn’t know you could replace your card for free.
So once again, thanks very much for your help.The only time that you have to, “be free to dispose of your time” is when you are taking a daily or weekly rest period. Who was your CPC trainer? Conor Turton…
Conor Turton? I don’t know who you mean there.
I discussed the reasons I wasn’t convinced in the thread “Night working…” and I’d gladly put my hands up and admit I’m wrong if someone would show me something credible to debunk what I was pointing out.
More than happy to oblige. From REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 15 March 2006 on the harmonisation of certain social legislation relating to road transport and amending Council Regulations (EEC) No 3821/85 and (EC) No 2135/98 and repealing Council Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85 which I hope you agree is a credible source.
(d) ‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is
used exclusively for recuperation;(f) ‘rest’ means any uninterrupted period during which a
driver may freely dispose of his time;
Notice something that is a requirement of rest but is missing from the requirements of break? If it isn’t specifically mentioned it doesn’t apply and don’t, when reading regulations, add in stuff that isn’t there.
Whether a period qualifies as a break or is other work requires further reading to determine, is what you are doing recuperation or work for instance, but regardless being able to freely dispose of your time is not required for break.
There you go, credible source and in black and white with no grey areas, glad we got that sorted. What else did they teach you on the course?
It says nothing about what has to be recorded as other work that coffeeholic.
Do you really think that doesn’t affect it if you have to record it as other work when you’re not free to dispose of your time?
Well my digi cards since first issued with one in sept 2006 and a few new ones due to change of address n renewal last year have all been kept in my wallet with bank cards etc n never had a faulty card etc as yet
Red Squirrel:
It says nothing about what has to be recorded as other work that coffeeholic.
Do you really think that doesn’t affect it if you have to record it as other work when you’re not free to dispose of your time?
That is nothing to do with whether you have to be free to dispose of your time. That would be in determining if it was a break or work.
If you beloved you have to be free to dispose of your time you will make it very difficult to take a break and also to stay within the regulations.
Once again it doesn’t say you must be free to dispose of your time for a break, it would have to say so if it was a requirement, it doesn’t so don’t add it in.
Coffeeholic:
Notice something that is a requirement of rest but is missing from the requirements of break? If it isn’t specifically mentioned it doesn’t apply and don’t, when reading regulations, add in stuff that isn’t there.
When did I add anything in that wasn’t there?
I only followed the definition of other work to the source which defines it.
That source may say:
The break times referred to in Article 5, the rest times referred to in Article 6 and, without prejudice to the legislation of Member States or agreements between the social partners providing that such periods should be compensated or limited, the periods of availability referred to in (b) of this Article, shall be excluded from working time;
but article 4 (e) of Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006 says:
‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or another employer, within or outside of the transport sector;
These activities are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC and for the purpose of (EC)561/2006 we exclude “(i) driving”:
(a) “working time” shall mean:
- in the case of mobile workers: the time from the beginning to the end of work, during which the mobile worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of the employer and exercising his functions or activities, that is to say:
- the time devoted to all road transport activities. These activities are, in particular, the following:
(i) driving;
(ii) loading and unloading;
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicle;
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance;
(v) all other work intended to ensure the safety of the vehicle, its cargo and passengers or to fulfil the legal or regulatory obligations directly linked to the specific transport operation under way, including monitoring of loading and unloading, administrative formalities with police, customs, immigration officers etc.,
- the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time and is required to be at his workstation, ready to take up normal work, with certain tasks associated with being on duty, in particular during periods awaiting loading or unloading where their foreseeable duration is not known in advance, that is to say either before departure or just before the actual start of the period in question, or under the general conditions negotiated between the social partners and/or under the terms of the legislation of the Member States;
If the part about breaks being excluded from working time invalidates everything in this definition it would mean that you are allowed to take a break whilst:
(ii) loading and unloading
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicle
and
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance
These as well as everything else in this definition which includes “the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time…”
I really can’t see why you have a problem with this.
Even for the purposes which Directive 2002/15/EC were originally intended for all of those activities were defined as working time if you weren’t on a break so they are nontheless activities which are defined as working time whichever way around you look at it.
Coffeeholic:
Red Squirrel:
It says nothing about what has to be recorded as other work that coffeeholic.
Do you really think that doesn’t affect it if you have to record it as other work when you’re not free to dispose of your time?That is nothing to do with whether you have to be free to dispose of your time. That would be in determining if it was a break or work.
Which is the same thing if it’s work when you’re not free to dispose of your time.
Coffeeholic:
If you beloved you have to be free to dispose of your time you will make it very difficult to take a break and also to stay within the regulations.
So what? It’s European law it’s not intended to make life easy.
Coffeeholic:
Once again it doesn’t say you must be free to dispose of your time for a break, it would have to say so if it was a requirement, it doesn’t so don’t add it in.
It could also do what it does and refer you to another piece of barmy european legislation for a definition of other work.
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Notice something that is a requirement of rest but is missing from the requirements of break? If it isn’t specifically mentioned it doesn’t apply and don’t, when reading regulations, add in stuff that isn’t there.When did I add anything in that wasn’t there?
I only followed the definition of other work to the source which defines it.That source may say:
The break times referred to in Article 5, the rest times referred to in Article 6 and, without prejudice to the legislation of Member States or agreements between the social partners providing that such periods should be compensated or limited, the periods of availability referred to in (b) of this Article, shall be excluded from working time;
but article 4 (e) of Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006 says:
‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or another employer, within or outside of the transport sector;
These activities are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC and for the purpose of (EC)561/2006 we exclude “(i) driving”:
(a) “working time” shall mean:
- in the case of mobile workers: the time from the beginning to the end of work, during which the mobile worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of the employer and exercising his functions or activities, that is to say:
- the time devoted to all road transport activities. These activities are, in particular, the following:
(i) driving;
(ii) loading and unloading;
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicle;
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance;
(v) all other work intended to ensure the safety of the vehicle, its cargo and passengers or to fulfil the legal or regulatory obligations directly linked to the specific transport operation under way, including monitoring of loading and unloading, administrative formalities with police, customs, immigration officers etc.,
- the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time and is required to be at his workstation, ready to take up normal work, with certain tasks associated with being on duty, in particular during periods awaiting loading or unloading where their foreseeable duration is not known in advance, that is to say either before departure or just before the actual start of the period in question, or under the general conditions negotiated between the social partners and/or under the terms of the legislation of the Member States;
If the part about breaks being excluded from working time invalidates everything in this definition it would mean that you are allowed to take a break whilst:
(ii) loading and unloading
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicleand
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance
These as well as everything else in this definition which includes “the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time…”
I really can’t see why you have a problem with this.
Even for the purposes which Directive 2002/15/EC were originally intended for all of those activities were defined as working time if you weren’t on a break so they are nontheless activities which are defined as working time whichever way around you look at it.
I am struggling to find what you are trying to grasp at,
When I am on break I am free to do what I want to do for that alloted time, be it 15 mins, 30 mins, 45 mins or even an hour dependant on where I am and how busy I am,
Today for instance I parked up near the gym, put it on break and went for a swim, came out just over an hour later, tomorrow I will do some shopping.
There have been times when the motor has had to go in for service or a repair and its a sit and wait, put it on break, remove disc, get my bike out and go and find a cafe/supermarket and either eat or shop, (the reason i take the disc out is so the spannermonkey’s can move the motor at their will).
B1 GGK:
I am struggling to find what you are trying to grasp at,
When I am on break I am free to do what I want to do for that alloted time, be it 15 mins, 30 mins, 45 mins or even an hour dependant on where I am and how busy I am,
Today for instance I parked up near the gym, put it on break and went for a swim, came out just over an hour later, tomorrow I will do some shopping.
There have been times when the motor has had to go in for service or a repair and its a sit and wait, put it on break, remove disc, get my bike out and go and find a cafe/supermarket and either eat or shop, (the reason i take the disc out is so the spannermonkey’s can move the motor at their will).
And you could freely dispose of your time in all of those instances.
But if you weren’t free to dispose of your time for example:
You had to unload the vehicle.
You were stuck in a traffic jam on a motorway.
You were being unloaded at a place you weren’t allowed to leave the vehicle.
You didn’t know in advance how much free time you had.
In those cases you may have to record that time spent as “other work” because…
In article 6 of Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006 it says this:
- A driver shall record as other work any time spent as described in Article 4(e)
That very same article 4(e) gives this definition:
‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or another employer, within or outside of the transport sector;
So you have to look at Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC to understand the definition of other work.
It is worth noting that one is talking about “other work” and the other is talking about “working time”
Coffeeholic, among others, disputes that this is the way it works.
Here are links to both bits of legislation so you can consider it for yourself:
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF
eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/s … l=guichett
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Notice something that is a requirement of rest but is missing from the requirements of break? If it isn’t specifically mentioned it doesn’t apply and don’t, when reading regulations, add in stuff that isn’t there.When did I add anything in that wasn’t there?
You have added in the bit about being free to dispose of your time on a break when it clearly isn’t included.
Red Squirrel:
I only followed the definition of other work to the source which defines it.
But we aren’t looking at other work. It is clear what other work is, any work related stuff that isn’t driving such as checks, maintenance, fueling, loading, unloading, paperwork, clearing customs and do on. No one us disputing that and no one is saying you can record a break while doing any of that stuff. However that is nothing to do with whether it is one of requirements of break that you are free to dispose of your time.
Red Squirrel:
If the part about breaks being excluded from working time invalidates everything in this definition it would mean that you are allowed to take a break whilst:(ii) loading and unloading
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicleand
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance
These as well as everything else in this definition which includes “the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time…”
I really can’t see why you have a problem with this.
I have no problem with this, all those things are not break and I have never said they are. But again that had nothing to do with whether you have to be freely able to dispose of your time while taking a break because none of those things qualify as break
Red Squirrel:
Even for the purposes which Directive 2002/15/EC were originally intended for all of those activities were defined as working time if you weren’t on a break so they are nontheless activities which are defined as working time whichever way around you look at it.
Indeed they are, but we aren’t discussing working time, we all agree on what is working time.
Here is a real life, up to the minute example.
I am typing this post while in the passenger seat of a truck heading down the M6. I drove it to Charnock Richard where we swapped trailers, swapped the two digi cards over in the VU and set off.
While we are moving my card is recording POA, it’s all you can record in slot 2 while the truck is moving. However, should my co-driver get to 4.5 hours driving I will be able to take back over because VOSA assume the first 45 minutes of POA to be break in this situation.
If it was a requirement of break to be able to freely dispose of your time I would not be able to take over without first having a 45 minute break parked somewhere. I am not able to freely dispose of my time, I can’t leave the vehicle because it would hurt a little seeing as we are currently doing 56 mph, but I have taken a legal break. The rest of the time after the first 45 minutes, around 3 hours, will be POA.
By your reckoning I am not recording a break but according to VOSA and the regulations I am. Who is right?
B1 GGK:
Red Squirrel:
Coffeeholic:
Notice something that is a requirement of rest but is missing from the requirements of break? If it isn’t specifically mentioned it doesn’t apply and don’t, when reading regulations, add in stuff that isn’t there.When did I add anything in that wasn’t there?
I only followed the definition of other work to the source which defines it.That source may say:
The break times referred to in Article 5, the rest times referred to in Article 6 and, without prejudice to the legislation of Member States or agreements between the social partners providing that such periods should be compensated or limited, the periods of availability referred to in (b) of this Article, shall be excluded from working time;
but article 4 (e) of Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006 says:
‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or another employer, within or outside of the transport sector;
These activities are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC and for the purpose of (EC)561/2006 we exclude “(i) driving”:
(a) “working time” shall mean:
- in the case of mobile workers: the time from the beginning to the end of work, during which the mobile worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of the employer and exercising his functions or activities, that is to say:
- the time devoted to all road transport activities. These activities are, in particular, the following:
(i) driving;
(ii) loading and unloading;
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicle;
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance;
(v) all other work intended to ensure the safety of the vehicle, its cargo and passengers or to fulfil the legal or regulatory obligations directly linked to the specific transport operation under way, including monitoring of loading and unloading, administrative formalities with police, customs, immigration officers etc.,
- the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time and is required to be at his workstation, ready to take up normal work, with certain tasks associated with being on duty, in particular during periods awaiting loading or unloading where their foreseeable duration is not known in advance, that is to say either before departure or just before the actual start of the period in question, or under the general conditions negotiated between the social partners and/or under the terms of the legislation of the Member States;
If the part about breaks being excluded from working time invalidates everything in this definition it would mean that you are allowed to take a break whilst:
(ii) loading and unloading
(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicleand
(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance
These as well as everything else in this definition which includes “the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time…”
I really can’t see why you have a problem with this.
Even for the purposes which Directive 2002/15/EC were originally intended for all of those activities were defined as working time if you weren’t on a break so they are nontheless activities which are defined as working time whichever way around you look at it.
I am struggling to find what you are trying to grasp at,
When I am on break I am free to do what I want to do for that alloted time, be it 15 mins, 30 mins, 45 mins or even an hour dependant on where I am and how busy I am,
Today for instance I parked up near the gym, put it on break and went for a swim, came out just over an hour later, tomorrow I will do some shopping.
There have been times when the motor has had to go in for service or a repair and its a sit and wait, put it on break, remove disc, get my bike out and go and find a cafe/supermarket and either eat or shop, (the reason i take the disc out is so the spannermonkey’s can move the motor at their will).
Yeah in those examples you were able to dispose freely of your time, in fact if you had taken a 3 hour swim you could have used the time toward a split daily rest as it meets the requirements of rest. However, you can still record break in situations where you did not have the freedom to swim, shop or cycle. (Blimey, it sounds like a tampon commercial.) Waiting while being unloaded or loaded and either sitting in the cab or a waiting room. Waiting to board a ferry. Sitting on the motorway for an hour while they clear an accident. Sitting in the passenger seat while multi-manning. All situations where you cannot go swimming, shopping, or for a bike ride but can legally take a break.