What if your tacho card gets wiped?

[wheel_nut]

Red Squirrel:

B1 GGK:
I am struggling to find what you are trying to grasp at,
When I am on break I am free to do what I want to do for that alloted time, be it 15 mins, 30 mins, 45 mins or even an hour dependant on where I am and how busy I am,
Today for instance I parked up near the gym, put it on break and went for a swim, came out just over an hour later, tomorrow I will do some shopping.
There have been times when the motor has had to go in for service or a repair and its a sit and wait, put it on break, remove disc, get my bike out and go and find a cafe/supermarket and either eat or shop, (the reason i take the disc out is so the spannermonkey’s can move the motor at their will).

And you could freely dispose of your time in all of those instances.
But if you weren’t free to dispose of your time for example:

You had to unload the vehicle.
You were stuck in a traffic jam on a motorway.
You were being unloaded at a place you weren’t allowed to leave the vehicle.
You didn’t know in advance how much free time you had.

In those cases you may have to record that time spent as “other work” because…

In article 6 of Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006 it says this:

5. A driver shall record as other work any time spent as described in Article 4(e)

That very same article 4(e) gives this definition:

‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or another employer, within or outside of the transport sector;

So you have to look at Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC to understand the definition of other work.
It is worth noting that one is talking about “other work” and the other is talking about “working time”

Coffeeholic, among others, disputes that this is the way it works.

Here are links to both bits of legislation so you can consider it for yourself:
eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 013:EN:PDF
eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/s … l=guichett

In Article 4 of 561/2006 it mentions the word dispose 3 times.

(d) ‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not
carry out any driving or any other work and which is
used exclusively for recuperation;

(e) ‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as
working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC
except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or
another employer, within or outside of the transport
sector;

(f) ‘rest’ means any uninterrupted period during which a
driver may freely dispose of his time;

(g) ‘daily rest period’ means the daily period during which a
driver may freely dispose of his time and covers a ‘regular
daily rest period’ and a ‘reduced daily rest period’:

– ‘regular daily rest period’ means any period of rest
of at least 11 hours. Alternatively, this regular daily
rest period may be taken in two periods, the first of
which must be an uninterrupted period of at least 3
hours and the second an uninterrupted period of at
least nine hours,‘reduced daily rest period’ means any period of rest
of at least nine hours but less than 11 hours;

(h) ‘weekly rest period’ means the weekly period during
which a driver may freely dispose of his time and covers
a ‘regular weekly rest period’ and a ‘reduced weekly rest
period’:

You are really making things difficult for yourself by reading things that are not there.

In your second example the word dispose is used just the once;

Article 3

For the purposes of this Directive:

(a) “working time” shall mean:

1. in the case of mobile workers: the time from the beginning to the end of work, during which the mobile worker is at his workstation, at the disposal of the employer and exercising his functions or activities, that is to say:

• the time devoted to all road transport activities. These activities are, in particular, the following:

(i) driving;

(ii) loading and unloading;

(iii) assisting passengers boarding and disembarking from the vehicle;

(iv) cleaning and technical maintenance;

(v) all other work intended to ensure the safety of the vehicle, its cargo and passengers or to fulfil the legal or regulatory obligations directly linked to the specific transport operation under way, including monitoring of loading and unloading, administrative formalities with police, customs, immigration officers etc.,

• the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time and is required to be at his workstation, ready to take up normal work, with certain tasks associated with being on duty, in particular during periods awaiting loading or unloading where their foreseeable duration is not known in advance, that is to say either before departure or just before the actual start of the period in question, or under the general conditions negotiated between the social partners and/or under the terms of the legislation of the Member States;

Both of these pieces of legislation really are straightforward but you must read them in their entirety without adding your own words.

If you want to translate this document you will see that it says exactly the same.

eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 15:HU:HTML

I don’t mind you trying to score points, it keeps my mind active, but I read these documents daily and have written many articles & posts about them, as has Neil

[red_squirrel]

Coffeeholic:
Indeed they are, but we aren’t discussing working time, we all agree on what is working time.

Here is a real life, up to the minute example.

I am currently in the passenger seat of a truck heading down the M6. I drove it to Charnock Richard where we swapped trailers, swapped the two digi cards over in the VU and set off.

While we are moving my card is recording POA, it’s all you can record in slot 2 while the truck is moving. However, should my co-driver get to 4.5 hours driving I will be able to take back over because VOSA assume the first 45 minutes of POA to be break in this situation.

If it was a requirement of break to be able to freely dispose of your time I would not be able to take over without first having a 45 minute break parked somewhere. I am not able to freely dispose of my time, I can’t leave the vehicle because it would hurt a little seeing as we are currently doing 56 mph, but I have taken a legal break. The rest of the time after the first 45 minutes, around 3 hours, will be POA.

By your reckoning I am not recording a break but according to VOSA and the regulations I am. Who is right?

I don’t honestly know. I do read in article 9 of (EC)561/2006 however that:

2. Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
   vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
   from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
   home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
   driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
   break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
   bunk or couchette.

The exemptions here like being on a ferry or train are obviously exempt from any other requirement.
I’m not sure what defines a couchette so perhaps it needs further reading.

Can you point to something specific in the (EC)561/2006 which exempts you from article 9

I’m sure I’ve heard it time and again that you can take a break moving when multi-manning but I just can’t see it in the regs.

Not trying to be clever, but I’m sure you can read article 9 as well as me and I’m not adding anything to it.

And I’m sure you wouldn’t try to dispute that you have to wear a seatbelt whilst in a moving vehicle. (thus depriving you access to the bunk)

[red_squirrel]

Wheelnut, I’m not reading things that are not there.

I accept your point that it uses the word “dispose” 3 times in 561/2006 and 1 time in Directive 2002/15/EC.

But can’t you understand that I already think these european legislators are lazy or they wouldn’t write something like:

article 4 (e) of Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006:
‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or another employer, within or outside of the transport sector;

They should have written us a proper definition of “other work” within the 561/2006 and not tried to cut corners and it would have saved all of this confusion.

That said, if I am sooooooooooo wrong, what does the above quote mean? It must mean something.

None of my detractors can offer me so much as an attempt of an explanation as to what it means.

ASK THE EXPERTS this forum is categorized under… well come on experts what is the definition of “other work” for Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006■■?

[gogzy]

It is a load of ■■■■■■■■, my bank card and my digi card sit in the same slot in my wallet…have done since i got my digi and guess what?

it still works fine and it doesnt wipe the data

[red_squirrel]

Wheel Nut:
If you want to translate this document you will see that it says exactly the same.

eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex … 15:HU:HTML

Beszél magyarul?
Már lefordított dokumentum?

[coffeeholic]

Red Squirrel:

Coffeeholic:
Indeed they are, but we aren’t discussing working time, we all agree on what is working time.

Here is a real life, up to the minute example.

I am currently in the passenger seat of a truck heading down the M6. I drove it to Charnock Richard where we swapped trailers, swapped the two digi cards over in the VU and set off.

While we are moving my card is recording POA, it’s all you can record in slot 2 while the truck is moving. However, should my co-driver get to 4.5 hours driving I will be able to take back over because VOSA assume the first 45 minutes of POA to be break in this situation.

If it was a requirement of break to be able to freely dispose of your time I would not be able to take over without first having a 45 minute break parked somewhere. I am not able to freely dispose of my time, I can’t leave the vehicle because it would hurt a little seeing as we are currently doing 56 mph, but I have taken a legal break. The rest of the time after the first 45 minutes, around 3 hours, will be POA.

By your reckoning I am not recording a break but according to VOSA and the regulations I am. Who is right?

I don’t honestly know. I do read in article 9 of (EC)561/2006 however that:

2. Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
   vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
   from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
   home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
   driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
   break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
   bunk or couchette.

The exemptions here like being on a ferry or train are obviously exempt from any other requirement.
I’m not sure what defines a couchette so perhaps it needs further reading.

Can you point to something specific in the (EC)561/2006 which exempts you from article 9

I don’t need to be exempted from Article 9 as it has nothing to do with my current situation. I am not travelling to or from somewhere to take over a vehicle. We started our shift at our base in this vehicle and will end it there, just like any other shift apart from the fact there are two drivers on this run.

Red Squirrel:
I’m sure I’ve heard it time and again that you can take a break moving when multi-manning but I just can’t see it in the regs.:

Can you see anywhere in the regs that says you can’t? You won’t be able to and this is what I have been trying to get through to you. The regulations don’t have to list every single thing that is allowed, because by not saying it isn’t allowed it by definition is, or by not saying something is required then ny definition it isn’t . You will see in the regs a section saying you cannot take a rest in a moving vehicle but there is not the same thing for break, therefore you can.

That is exactly the same as it saying you must be free to dispose of your time for rest and not mentioning it with regards to break. It applies to one and not the other.

Red Squirrel:
Not trying to be clever, but I’m sure you can read article 9 as well as me and I’m not adding anything to it.

I know you are not adding anything to it but you are bringing in something that has absolutely no bearing on the situation. That’s been another of your problems.

Red Squirrel:
And I’m sure you wouldn’t try to dispute that you have to wear a seatbelt whilst in a moving vehicle. (thus depriving you access to the bunk)

Sorry to disappoint but I would dispute that, especially as I am lying on the bunk typing this. There is no regulation that says you must wear a belt in a moving vehicle, plenty of vehicles on the road with people in them and no requirement to wear a belt. If I am in the passenger seat in this truck I should wear the belt because one is fitted. However, the bunk is not fitted with a belt so I cannot wear what isn’t there.

[red_squirrel]

Coffeeholic:

Red Squirrel:

Coffeeholic:
Indeed they are, but we aren’t discussing working time, we all agree on what is working time.

Here is a real life, up to the minute example.

I am currently in the passenger seat of a truck heading down the M6. I drove it to Charnock Richard where we swapped trailers, swapped the two digi cards over in the VU and set off.

While we are moving my card is recording POA, it’s all you can record in slot 2 while the truck is moving. However, should my co-driver get to 4.5 hours driving I will be able to take back over because VOSA assume the first 45 minutes of POA to be break in this situation.

If it was a requirement of break to be able to freely dispose of your time I would not be able to take over without first having a 45 minute break parked somewhere. I am not able to freely dispose of my time, I can’t leave the vehicle because it would hurt a little seeing as we are currently doing 56 mph, but I have taken a legal break. The rest of the time after the first 45 minutes, around 3 hours, will be POA.

By your reckoning I am not recording a break but according to VOSA and the regulations I am. Who is right?

I don’t honestly know. I do read in article 9 of (EC)561/2006 however that:

2. Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
   vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
   from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
   home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
   driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
   break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
   bunk or couchette.

The exemptions here like being on a ferry or train are obviously exempt from any other requirement.
I’m not sure what defines a couchette so perhaps it needs further reading.

Can you point to something specific in the (EC)561/2006 which exempts you from article 9

I don’t need to be exempted from Article 9 as it has nothing to do with my current situation. I am not travelling to or from somewhere to take over a vehicle. We started our shift at our base in this vehicle and will end it there, just like any other shift apart from the fact there are two drivers on this run.

It doesn’t say anything about taking over a vehicle it talks about taking charge of a vehicle. Would you be taking charge of that vehicle or not? Are you travelling to a location? As far I know, if you are travelling, whether intentional or not, you are travelling to a location. There’s no getting around it. Wherever you stop, that is the location you were travelling to.

Coffeeholic:

Red Squirrel:
I’m sure I’ve heard it time and again that you can take a break moving when multi-manning but I just can’t see it in the regs.:

Can you see anywhere in the regs that says you can’t? You won’t be able to and this is what I have been trying to get through to you. The regulations don’t have to list every single thing that is allowed, because by not saying it isn’t allowed it by definition is, or by not saying something is required then ny definition it isn’t . You will see in the regs a section saying you cannot take a rest in a moving vehicle but there is not the same thing for break, therefore you can.

That is exactly the same as it saying you must be free to dispose of your time for rest and not mentioning it with regards to break. It applies to one and not the other.

If you have to clock something as other work you cant have a tacho machine in two modes at the same time.

Coffeeholic:
[

Red Squirrel:
Not trying to be clever, but I’m sure you can read article 9 as well as me and I’m not adding anything to it.

I know you are not adding anything to it but you are bringing in something that has absolutely no bearing on the situation. That’s been another of your problems.

I read what it said and it said what it says and don’t blame me because I didn’t write it.

Coffeeholic:

Red Squirrel:
And I’m sure you wouldn’t try to dispute that you have to wear a seatbelt whilst in a moving vehicle. (thus depriving you access to the bunk)

Sorry to disappoint but I would dispute that, especially as I am lying on the bunk typing this. There is no regulation that says you must wear a belt in a moving vehicle, plenty of vehicles on the road with people in them and no requirement to wear a belt. If I am in the passenger seat in this truck I should wear the belt because one is fitted. However, the bunk is not fitted with a belt so I cannot wear what isn’t there.

Ok. The seat belt has to be fitted, I’ll give you that. Fairly difficult to wear one that isn’t there.

[coffeeholic]

Red Squirrel:

article 4 (e) of Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006:
‘other work’ means all activities which are defined as working time in Article 3(a) of Directive 2002/15/EC except ‘driving’, including any work for the same or another employer, within or outside of the transport sector;

They should have written us a proper definition of “other work” within the 561/2006 and not tried to cut corners and it would have saved all of this confusion.

To be fair you are the only one confused.

Red Squirrel:
That said, if I am sooooooooooo wrong, what does the above quote mean? It must mean something.

It is pretty clear what it means

Red Squirrel:
None of my detractors can offer me so much as an attempt of an explanation as to what it means.

ASK THE EXPERTS this forum is categorized under… well come on experts what is the definition of “other work” for Council Regulation (EC) 561/2006■■?

I’m not one of the experts but I’ll give it a go, although it has already been done several times, I am sure Tachograph did it on the other thread.

Other work for 561/2006 is exactly what it says. It is everything defined as working time except driving. It says except driving because while 561/2006 counts driving and non driving work as separate activities Directive 2002/15/EC does not. You couldn’t have other work being all of the definition of working time otherwise you could claim all the driving was other work and under 561/2006 breaks interrupt periods of driving, not other work, and you could drive for 6 hours before needing a break, claiming it’s not driving, it’s other work.

The definition of working time in Directive 2002/15/EC includes everything you do at work from driving to fuelling to loading and unloading to vehicle checks and so on. Directive 2002/15/EC specifically excludes breaks and POA from working time.

So we know working time is driving and all the other work related stuff but is not POA or break. 561/2006 tells us to look to the definition of working time in Directive 2002/15/EC but to exclude driving so that only leaves all the other work related stuff and not break or POA

So that’s it, the definition of other work is everything you do at work that isn’t driving and isn’t sitting about, or otherwise, doing nothing work related. That has been the definition of other work since long before the WTD came into being.

So how about a real world example that thousands of drivers encounter each day.

A driver is at an RDC being unloaded and he, depending on the rules of the RDC, has to either stay I’m his cab or sit in a waiting room. If he stays in his cab he drinks some coffee from his flask and reads the paper. In the waiting room he drinks something claiming to be coffee from a machine and watches Loose Women on the TV.

Now he is doing nothing that is listed as other work in the WTD definition, no fuelling, no loading, no paperwork, no cleaning of the vehicle, no maintenance. In fact he is just recuperating, he’s sitting there doing next to nothing and what he is doing is not in any way working time as defined by Directive 2002/15/EC so is also not other work as defined by 561/2006. It’s true he isn’t able to freely dispose of his time because he has to stay in either the cab or waiting room but that is okay because being free to dispose of your time isn’t a condition of taking a break, 561/2006 clearly shows only rest periods have that condition attached.

We looked at 561/2006 to see if we could take the time as break, we couldn’t get an answer without checking elsewhere. We then looked at the Directive 2002/15/EC to see if what we were doing is listed as working time, it isn’t, no mention of reading, drinking coffee or watching TV as work so if it isn’t working time it isn’t other work. Then back to 561/2006 to see if we have to be free to dispose of our time? No mention of that in relation to break, and we don’t want to add in stuff that isn’t in the definition, so we don’t have to be able to freely dispose of our time.

We can book the time as break safe in the knowledge we meet all the requirements for a period to be a legal break, for both 561/2006 and Directive 2002/15/EC.

[coffeeholic]

Red Squirrel:

Coffeeholic:

Red Squirrel:

Coffeeholic:
Indeed they are, but we aren’t discussing working time, we all agree on what is working time.

Here is a real life, up to the minute example.

I am currently in the passenger seat of a truck heading down the M6. I drove it to Charnock Richard where we swapped trailers, swapped the two digi cards over in the VU and set off.

While we are moving my card is recording POA, it’s all you can record in slot 2 while the truck is moving. However, should my co-driver get to 4.5 hours driving I will be able to take back over because VOSA assume the first 45 minutes of POA to be break in this situation.

If it was a requirement of break to be able to freely dispose of your time I would not be able to take over without first having a 45 minute break parked somewhere. I am not able to freely dispose of my time, I can’t leave the vehicle because it would hurt a little seeing as we are currently doing 56 mph, but I have taken a legal break. The rest of the time after the first 45 minutes, around 3 hours, will be POA.

By your reckoning I am not recording a break but according to VOSA and the regulations I am. Who is right?

I don’t honestly know. I do read in article 9 of (EC)561/2006 however that:

2. Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
   vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
   from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
   home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
   driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
   break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
   bunk or couchette.

The exemptions here like being on a ferry or train are obviously exempt from any other requirement.
I’m not sure what defines a couchette so perhaps it needs further reading.

Can you point to something specific in the (EC)561/2006 which exempts you from article 9

I don’t need to be exempted from Article 9 as it has nothing to do with my current situation. I am not travelling to or from somewhere to take over a vehicle. We started our shift at our base in this vehicle and will end it there, just like any other shift apart from the fact there are two drivers on this run.

It doesn’t say anything about taking over a vehicle it talks about taking charge of a vehicle. Would you be taking charge of that vehicle or not? Are you travelling to a location? As far I know, if you are travelling, whether intentional or not, you are travelling to a location. There’s no getting around it. Wherever you stop, that is the location you were travelling to.

Now instead of adding bits into the regulations that aren’t there you are now not reading stuff that is there and doing these two things makes is what’s causing your confusion. When reading regulations the two most important things are read everything that is there and don’t read stuff that isn’t there. Unfortunately you are doing both of these things.

You’ve said, “Are you travelling to a location?” but that is only half of it and you didn’t read, or just ignored, the important bit. Read all of it and the question would be “Are you travelling to a location to take charge of a vehicle?”. Now we have all of it you see it doesn’t apply to my situation because I took charge of the vehicle at my regular base, and the vehicles operating centre.

This is absolutely nothing to do with normal day to day work where you start at base or from where you have taken a night out, go somewhere and either return to base or continue elsewhere. This only applies to a very specific situation and was brought about because of THIS COURT CASE back in 2001. Forget that bit in relation to this current discussion, it has no bearing on it whatsoever.

Red Squirrel:

Coffeeholic:

Red Squirrel:
I’m sure I’ve heard it time and again that you can take a break moving when multi-manning but I just can’t see it in the regs.:

Can you see anywhere in the regs that says you can’t? You won’t be able to and this is what I have been trying to get through to you. The regulations don’t have to list every single thing that is allowed, because by not saying it isn’t allowed it by definition is, or by not saying something is required then by definition it isn’t . You will see in the regs a section saying you cannot take a rest in a moving vehicle but there is not the same thing for break, therefore you can.

That is exactly the same as it saying you must be free to dispose of your time for rest and not mentioning it with regards to break. It applies to one and not the other.

If you have to clock something as other work you cant have a tacho machine in two modes at the same time.

I have no idea what you are talking about now so instead why not answer the question I asked. Can you see anywhere in the regulations where it says you cannot take a break in a moving vehicle? Remember, if it’s not allowed it either has to clearly say so or list everything that is allowed in a moving vehicle and not mention taking a break.

Red Squirrel:

Coffeeholic:

Red Squirrel:
Not trying to be clever, but I’m sure you can read article 9 as well as me and I’m not adding anything to it.

I know you are not adding anything to it but you are bringing in something that has absolutely no bearing on the situation. That’s been another of your problems.

I read what it said and it said what it says and don’t blame me because I didn’t write it.

Indeed you didn’t write it but you clearly don’t have much idea what it means because as said above it in no way relates to my shift tonight or this discussion, in fact most drivers could do an entire years work or more and never have Article 9 apply to them. Not every part of the regulations applies to every situation and that is one of those parts that only has a very narrow scope in applying to only one specific situation. Since the ruling on which Article 9 is based came into being in 2001 I can only think of 3 occasions where it has applied to me.

[coffeeholic]

Red Squirrel:
I’m sure I’ve heard it time and again that you can take a break moving when multi-manning but I just can’t see it in the regs.

I couldn’t do this earlier as I was posting from my phone but you possibly read it in the VOSA Guide to the Regulations. GV-262.

From page 17.

So provided you are not doing any paperwork or navigating for example you can take a break in a moving vehicle. Now how is that being able to dispose of your time freely, you can’t leave the vehicle while it is moving.

From page 38

Explains how it deals with breaks for the second driver when the tacho won’t record break while the vehicle is moving. Again it’s a break but you aren’t able to freely dispose of your time.

While this is from the VOSA guide, over the last 20 odd years I have done double manned trips to and through various European countries and none of the enforcement authorities had a problem with one driver taking a break while the other drove, including countries such as Belgium, France and Spain where they love to invent and misinterpret regulations to nick you.

You’re not French or Spanish are you?

Third post in THIS THREAD is from a VOSA enforcement and training officer, where he states

geebee45:
You may take a break whilst you’re on the passenger seat or bunk even if the vehicle is moving.

[rog]

This is really interesting

The wording for the RTWTD has a different definition to the same wording in 561/2006

If the RTWTD ever got seriously checked then it could cause an issue in regard to ‘being at the workstation’ but I guess either the wording would be changed or a court case would determine which of the two regs takes preference

[coffeeholic]

ROG:
This is really interesting

The wording for the RTWTD has a different definition to the same wording in 561/2006

If the RTWTD ever got seriously checked then it could cause an issue in regard to ‘being at the workstation’ but I guess either the wording would be changed or a court case would determine which of the two regs takes preference

You did that deliberately didn’t you? You waited until your post would be the one to make this thread multi=page. Just like the old days, good times, good memories. Nice one.

[red_squirrel]

Coffeeholic:
We looked at 561/2006 to see if we could take the time as break, we couldn’t get an answer without checking elsewhere. We then looked at the Directive 2002/15/EC to see if what we were doing is listed as working time, it isn’t, no mention of reading, drinking coffee or watching TV as work so if it isn’t working time it isn’t other work.

What was it you said earlier?

Coffeeholic:
I know you are not adding anything to it but you are bringing in something that has absolutely no bearing on the situation. That’s been another of your problems.

I can’t see how reading, drinking coffee or watching TV has any bearing on interpreting the legislation either.

Can I have a cup of coffee and watch the TV whilst I’m reading instructions, studying the map, filling in timesheets, doing administration? Yet that is other work.

Coffeeholic:
Now instead of adding bits into the regulations that aren’t there you are now not reading stuff that is there…

So having “looked at the Directive 2002/15/EC to see if what we were doing is listed as working time” in your hypothesis you fail to take into consideration this bit:

“the times during which he cannot dispose freely of his time and is required to be at his workstation, ready to take up normal work, with certain tasks associated with being on duty…”

That said, I have to admit when all is said and done, that if says on page 17 of GV-262:

“A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken”

In that case I don’t see why we should bother taking any notice of the free to dispose of your time thing.

[coffeeholic]

Red Squirrel:

Coffeeholic:
We looked at 561/2006 to see if we could take the time as break, we couldn’t get an answer without checking elsewhere. We then looked at the Directive 2002/15/EC to see if what we were doing is listed as working time, it isn’t, no mention of reading, drinking coffee or watching TV as work so if it isn’t working time it isn’t other work.

What was it you said earlier?

Coffeeholic:
I know you are not adding anything to it but you are bringing in something that has absolutely no bearing on the situation. That’s been another of your problems.

I can’t see how reading, drinking coffee or watching TV has any bearing on interpreting the legislation either.

Seriously? It has a bearing on whether it is other work or exclusively recuperation so has plenty do do with it.

Red Squirrel:
Can I have a cup of coffee and watch the TV whilst I’m reading instructions, studying the map, filling in timesheets, doing administration? Yet that is other work.

Indeed, but now you are doing it again, missing out important bits. Hint, it begins with ‘E’, ends in ‘y’ and has ‘xclusivel’ in the middle. Read ALL the words in the regulations, everyone is there for a reason and missing out just one can completely change the meaning of the rule.

Red Squirrel:
In that case I don’t see why we should bother taking any notice of the free to dispose of your time thing.

Only in as far as it applies to rest periods, you have to take notice of it then otherwise you may not be taking a legal rest period.

Anyway, I’m bored with this now, and page 17 seems to have settled it, so I’m off to look for a new argument. Anything else from your DCPC course we could laug… err, get our teeth into?

I have to mention you have been awarded 5 Head Bangers. Even ROG and delboy2 only ever got 3 so you have set a new benchmark.

[rog]

Coffeeholic:
I have to mention you have been awarded 5 Head Bangers

On that subject … where is the headbanger image?

[dieseldave]

ROG:

Coffeeholic:
I have to mention you have been awarded 5 Head Bangers

On that subject … where is the headbanger image?

You wore it out.

[coffeeholic]

dieseldave:

ROG:

Coffeeholic:
I have to mention you have been awarded 5 Head Bangers

On that subject … where is the headbanger image?

You wore it out.

Correct, it wore out and as a result has moved onto a better place. I can’t bring myself to use a replacement yet, I’ve looked but haven’t found one I can love although I do have about 10 saved.

[b1_ggk]

Neil, I think its time to dish out the headbanger and facepalm images.

[dar1976]

[shep532]

Blimey that was all a good read … I could just see Harry Hill - “FIGHT!!!”

All started by a DCPC trainer - well wouldn’t ya know it