Waberers

[ovlov_jay]

KarlM:
So are the companies owning the services just letting 20+ trucks use spaces every night, or sometimes all weekend and not been charged. At £20-£30 a time why are they letting that go, especially if genuine payers cannot then park up? Especially if they are all the same company! I always assumed Waberers had an account or something as you often see a dozen or more parked up at each services, and majority of the time, it is a welcome break.

The operators of the msa have nothing to do with parking enforcement anymore. That’s why there are no attendants. The parking payments and enforcement are all controlled by parking eye. It’s good faith that you’ll pay in the shop, if not, they send a ticket through the post. Good luck getting the registration details of a bunch of Hungarian trucks recorded on anpr cameras

[caledoniandream]

Carryfast:

milodon:
1500 litres of fuel doesn’t really get you too far and the vehicle purchase costs are just about the same all over Europe. Mind you if an eastern company buys second hand, they usually go to western Europe to do it.

It seems clear that the cost base is lower for East Euro operations than West Euro ones.If not the cost of purchasing vehicles and fuel,certainly in terms of the wage bill and cost of operating centres among other overheads.Bearing in mind that a large operation will also involve a larger proportion of non driving staff to pay wages.If that isn’t the case then why does so much West Euro traffic end up being taken by large East Euro operations.

Which is a similar situation as ‘would’ take place if Mexican operators were allowed to haul US-Canadian traffic in addition to so called ‘limited’ cabotage operations internally in those countries under NAFTA,as East Euro operations can do here.IE one rule for America and another for us when it suits US foreign policy.

Is this not a British invention?
All these pure British companies who have their call centres in India (BT and several national banks)
All these traditional British companies who produce abroad in Eastern Europe like Cadbury and Terry’s to name but a few.
All the Murfits trucks who would take all the space up in Carisio.
The Brits and the Dutch would be who set the standard in living weeks in trucks around Europe and beyond.
Traditional the Eastern Europe companies where double manned and did shorter stints in Europe.
It’s the request of the market, we want our products cheaper and cheaper, and we don’t care who delivered it, as long as it is cheap, hence the race to the bottom, hence the reason EE hauliers stand a great chance to operate.

[the_nodding_donkey]

caledoniandream:

Carryfast:

milodon:
1500 litres of fuel doesn’t really get you too far and the vehicle purchase costs are just about the same all over Europe. Mind you if an eastern company buys second hand, they usually go to western Europe to do it.

It seems clear that the cost base is lower for East Euro operations than West Euro ones.If not the cost of purchasing vehicles and fuel,certainly in terms of the wage bill and cost of operating centres among other overheads.Bearing in mind that a large operation will also involve a larger proportion of non driving staff to pay wages.If that isn’t the case then why does so much West Euro traffic end up being taken by large East Euro operations.

Which is a similar situation as ‘would’ take place if Mexican operators were allowed to haul US-Canadian traffic in addition to so called ‘limited’ cabotage operations internally in those countries under NAFTA,as East Euro operations can do here.IE one rule for America and another for us when it suits US foreign policy.

Is this not a British invention?
All these pure British companies who have their call centres in India (BT and several national banks)
All these traditional British companies who produce abroad in Eastern Europe like Cadbury and Terry’s to name but a few.
All the Murfits trucks who would take all the space up in Carisio.
The Brits and the Dutch would be who set the standard in living weeks in trucks around Europe and beyond.
Traditional the Eastern Europe companies where double manned and did shorter stints in Europe.
It’s the request of the market, we want our products cheaper and cheaper, and we don’t care who delivered it, as long as it is cheap, hence the race to the bottom, hence the reason EE hauliers stand a great c

hance to operate.

Nail hit firmly on head…

[caledoniandream]

OVLOV JAY:

KarlM:
So are the companies owning the services just letting 20+ trucks use spaces every night, or sometimes all weekend and not been charged. At £20-£30 a time why are they letting that go, especially if genuine payers cannot then park up? Especially if they are all the same company! I always assumed Waberers had an account or something as you often see a dozen or more parked up at each services, and majority of the time, it is a welcome break.

The operators of the msa have nothing to do with parking enforcement anymore. That’s why there are no attendants. The parking payments and enforcement are all controlled by parking eye. It’s good faith that you’ll pay in the shop, if not, they send a ticket through the post. Good luck getting the registration details of a bunch of Hungarian trucks recorded on anpr cameras

Again most EE operators have accounts for parking quite in contrast with British operators who let their driver pre-finance their operations by paying the parking and claiming it back.
Many of the EE companies have accounts for everything and one of my customer who is a recovery / repair business don’t has a problem to deal with them, as they don’t fight over the bills and pay them immediately.

Yes they pay their drivers less in contrast to British, but much more than their country standards, hence the reason they can actually get drivers.

[carryfast]

caledoniandream:
Is this not a British invention?
All these pure British companies who have their call centres in India (BT and several national banks)
All these traditional British companies who produce abroad in Eastern Europe like Cadbury and Terry’s to name but a few.
All the Murfits trucks who would take all the space up in Carisio.
The Brits and the Dutch would be who set the standard in living weeks in trucks around Europe and beyond.
Traditional the Eastern Europe companies where double manned and did shorter stints in Europe.
It’s the request of the market, we want our products cheaper and cheaper, and we don’t care who delivered it, as long as it is cheap, hence the race to the bottom, hence the reason EE hauliers stand a great chance to operate.

That doesn’t explain the clear double standard of the US and Canada applying strict third country operations cabotage rules within NAFTA on Mexican trucks and even strict controls on US-Mexico traffic.IE yes like here the US has also thrown swathes of its domestic wealth creating industry to the race to the bottom global free market economy.But unlike here they still obviously apply much stricter protectionist policies regarding the road transport industry.So why can’t we do the same thing.IE a single market but with rules,checks and balances. ?.

[ryan011284]

Do any English work for these

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[andrewg]

DonutUK:
Part of the problem is that the Cabotage rules are quite complicated and allow for a lot of fudging which I can imagine makes it difficult to enforce.

For example, if Waberers finished their international inbound unload on a Friday, they then have 7 days in which they can perform up to 3 cabotage loads (multi drop loads count as one cabotage load) so they can keep the truck working domestically until the following Friday. Then they can run to pick up an outgoing international load.
So, presuming they park the truck up at weekends, that’s 2 weekends parked here…plus then however long it takes to find an outgoing international load…so easy to see why they can have loads of trucks parked up all over the country.

To enforce cabotage, they have to be actually caught in the act of performing domestic work outside of the 7 day allowed period or over the 3 job limit.

^
This
Waberers have very clever transport managers who know every loophole and grey area in the book.
Their drivers are on a pittance but i say good luck to them…

[lczjs]

Waberers have very clever transport managers who know every loophole and grey area in the book.
Their drivers are on a pittance but i say good luck to them…

Yes I agree they are very clever in what they do and very successful.
They have managed to cut fuel costs by 2-3 percent annually over the past few years, helped by software it developed which reduces the ratio of trucks running empty to below 8 percent, lower than the 23 percent average for heavy goods vehicles in Europe.
As for the drivers wage being a pittance as posters constantly keep going on about How Do You Know This! Have you seen their wage slips■■? Plus the fact that cost of living in Hungary is a lot lower than the UK.
A lot of UK drivers are on a pittance of a wage as far as I can make out some as low as £10 per hour such as supermarket drivers I am told. Ask a UK driver his hourly rate or what his wage is and you will get a Tall Tale.

[lczjs]

ryan011284:
Do any English work for these

It is a possibility that English Drivers work for Waberer as they have English depots.

[ares]

lczjs:
A lot of UK drivers are on a pittance of a wage as far as I can make out some as low as £10 per hour such as supermarket drivers I am told. Ask a UK driver his hourly rate or what his wage is and you will get a Tall Tale.

CO-OP Castlewood (M1 J28) pay £34k for a 48 hour week

[geoffo]

ryan011284:
Do any English work for these

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I met a New Zealander that worked for them last year.

It was his best way to see Europe & get paid for it.

We didn’t discuss wages, but he seemed happy with what he was doing.

[rb84]

Does anyone know how far out/ what countries Waberers get to? I’m guessing they cover most of Europe but do the get into the likes of Russia, north Africa, central Asia?
just wondering really!

[conan_the_librarian]

Butcher:
It’s interesting Jay, that the cameras never seem to pick up anything suspicious when a truck has its curtains slashed yet again.

The cameras are there purely to enforce parking charges, they couldn’t give two ■■■■■ about curtains getting slashed.

[biggriffin]

RB84:
Does anyone know how far out/ what countries Waberers get to? I’m guessing they cover most of Europe but do the get into the likes of Russia, north Africa, central Asia?
just wondering really![/quote

Were ever they get sent definitely Russia, and guessing everything bordering Afghanistan, and Turkey

[franglais]

caledoniandream:
Is this not a British invention?
All these pure British companies who have their call centres in India (BT and several national banks)
All these traditional British companies who produce abroad in Eastern Europe like Cadbury and Terry’s to name but a few.
All the Murfits trucks who would take all the space up in Carisio.
The Brits and the Dutch would be who set the standard in living weeks in trucks around Europe and beyond.
Traditional the Eastern Europe companies where double manned and did shorter stints in Europe.
It’s the request of the market, we want our products cheaper and cheaper, and we don’t care who delivered it, as long as it is cheap, hence the race to the bottom, hence the reason EE hauliers stand a great chance to operate.

NOTE: Cadbury were acquired in a hostle takeover by Kraft in 2010. They then closed the Keynsham plant, in spite if saying they wouldnt IIRC ? Terrys was taken over by Kraft in 1993.
Kraft is a US company. The confectionery parts of Kraft became Mondelez International in 2012.

[albion]

lczjs:
As for the drivers wage being a pittance as posters constantly keep going on about How Do You Know This! Have you seen their wage slips■■? Plus the fact that cost of living in Hungary is a lot lower than the UK.
A lot of UK drivers are on a pittance of a wage as far as I can make out some as low as £10 per hour such as supermarket drivers I am told. Ask a UK driver his hourly rate or what his wage is and you will get a Tall Tale.

Hope this helps. I’ve read it from page 11, it makes for interesting reading ( anorak wearer alert )

suivo.com/wp-content/uploads … Europe.pdf

In practice, the basic gross monthly salary observed on drivers’ payslips varies between €3,150 in Luxembourg and €300 in Bulgaria; i.e. by a factor of 10.5. If we disregard the highest and lowest values, basic monthly salaries in Western Europe are concentrated around the €2,000 gross mark, and in Eastern Europe around the €400 gross mark. Taking into account officially declared and paid overtime and the various compulsory bonuses, Western European drivers’ wages range from €2,660 in some German states to €1,650 in Spain, while those of Eastern European drivers are generally in the region of €600 gross per month.

Social costs to the employer:

The result is a variation in annual employers’ contributions ranging on a scale from 1 to 24, as shown in the chart below, considering the Belgian level of €16,221 per year compared with the Bulgarian level of €673 per year. A comparison of the more middle-of-the-road countries in both east and west, such as Spain at €7,275 per year and Hungary at €1,824 per year, shows them to differ by a factor of 4.

In annualised figures, the total cost to a business of each of its international lorry drivers ranges from €55,810 per year in Belgium to €15,859 per year in Bulgaria. The more median trend is in the region of €45,000 per year in Western Europe and €20,000 per year in Eastern Europe. Portugal and some Eastern German states are closer to the Eastern averages.

Conclusion:

The same hour’s driving in the same lorry on the same road with the same goods can cost €8 per hour or €33 per hour depending on whether the driver is employed by a Bulgarian company or a Belgian company. This is not a negligible difference: it is a 4-fold gap.

Competitiveness gaps of this magnitude cannot exist in one marketplace. We can only confirm the theorem put forward by French economist Michel Albert, which essentially warns that any business based in a country with high living standards which employs primarily low-skilled labour is bound to either go bankrupt or move its operations elsewhere. For a significant number of EU Member States, the current situation in the international road freight transport single market is therefore untenable.

Business statistics on the European international RFT sector are a harsh reminder of this fact: countries like Italy, Belgium and France (which was Europe’s leading RFT player 15 years ago) have been squeezed out of the market in the space of ten years. Again according to the statistics, the market has become hyper-concentrated around several countries: Poland alone has a 25% share of the EU market, while the 4 leading countries have captured 50% of business in the 28 Member States put together.

[kjw21]

@albion

That is the most informative and detailed post I have read on the subject of Eastern vs Western transport firms and associated costs.

Worryingly it also paints a picture of an industry circling the drain in certain countries, the UK being one of them.

[franglais]

Good one Albion. I`ve not read it yet, but noting it is a Gov sponsored, but NOT a political or other pressure group, the figures may well be reliable.

(I`m not one of those who read something to see whether or not it agrees with my preconcieved point of view before deciding to dis/believe the figures). I hope.

[franglais]

Heres a few more points extracted from the doc Albion posted a link to. Ive picked out an example relating to Hungary.
Annual salary 6,400 euros. {p13}. Plus annual tax free bonuses of 10,733 euros {p 15}.
But note {pp 18 & 19} … Wage calculation practices…
…a bonus per kilometre (around €0.09 per km),
 a bonus per trip (e.g. just under €500 for a return trip from Lisbon to Berlin),
 a set bonus per country crossed when the journey comprises several trips between third
countries…In practice, lorry drivers are therefore paid per unit of output…haulage companies first work out the total sum payable for the productivity bonuses and then translate them into daily travel allowances for administrative purposes.

So, it seems to me, haulage companies may pay mileage bonuses in the guise of tax-free “daily travel allowances” (aka night out money), to circumvent the reg 561/2006. If Im reading that wrongly Im open to correction.
EU reg 561/2006- “A transport undertaking shall not give drivers
it employs or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form of a bonus or wage
supplement, related to distances travelled and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is
of such a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages infringement of this Regulation.”
The document doesn`t provide any figures for the UK or Eire, by the way.

[muckles]

I think to blame East European drivers or even Warberers is missing the point, if it wasn’t Warberers taking advantage of the situation they find themselves in then it would have been somebody else, plenty of Western European haulage operations have opened large operations in Eastern Europe to take advantage of the situation and a few years ago it was Willie Betz parked on every service station in Europe.

As for the drivers I doubt they’re all cab happy campers who do the job for the love truck driving across Europe, so why do they do it? Probably for the same reasons we’d do it, either unemployment in their home countries is so bad they’ll take any job or the work pays better than local work, making the hardships worthwhile.

The problem is a system that has allowed Countries with such massive differences in their economies and average pay, unlimited access to each others markets, but freedom of movement of goods, services, capital and labour across these Countries really suits the needs of big business.

but it doesn’t suit the needs of the average workers of those Countries who have a higher average pay or I doubt long term its really a good thing for those Countries whose brightest and best people leave in their droves for better pay in other Countries and for those workers who stay and benefit from the influx of work, they should keep a look over their shoulder, as the multi national corporations are looking for the next source of cheap labour to replace them and they have the establishment politicians in their pockets to make sure it happens, although they might be luckier than us, as one of the Countries at the forefront of promoting this free market economic system has been the UK, so at least you might not have our politicians pushing that agenda at the table of the EU.