The W.H.Williams Story
1919-1986
Chapter 1
The birth of a fleet of vans
Part 5
Dad always described my grandfather as a person who preferred to work with his mind and his mouth using others to do the manual work, and that he was always surrounded by ‘hangers on’ who would run to his command Regardless of this he must have worked extremely hard during his first year in business, to achieve all he did. When my Grandma and Granada were married in 1919 they bought from my maternal great grandfather a three piece suite, sideboard and table and chairs, all new as selling of new furniture was part of the Clements’ business. When in 1920 grandfather decided to buy his first motor vehicle he could afford the Ford T 1tonner chassis, for which he paid in cash but he was unable to afford the extra cost of having a drop sided body and cab built by H Raine and Sons.
As I said earlier he had bought furniture new from his father in law for his home and my grandmother had no hesitation in agreeing to sell it to be able to afford to pay Raines for building the cab and body. This left them sitting on tea chests until they could once again afford to replace the furniture.
I believe the registration number of the new Ford was J9629. J being the designated prefix at that time for vehicles registered in our part of the North East .It had solid wheels and had been manufactured in USA and so was left hand drive, and very uncomfortable to drive with its open cab and half doors. There were no windows\ at all in the doors in those days, never mind electric windows.
Apparently changing gear not only included ‘Double de clutching but also it was necessary to pause for ten seconds between each change. The story goes that one day a farmer was travelling with my granddad up Park head Bank heading from Bishop Auckland to Spennymoor couldn’t resist commenting when he heard the horrible grating sound of metal grinding together with metal as W. H Williams forced the gearbox down to bottom to go up the bank. ‘Willie I think you have to pause a bit to let it go into gear’. ‘Pause’ came the reply ‘I have no time to pause’ (None of the Williams’s were known for their patience.) Also on one journey when my great grandfather was riding with his son and was not satisfied with the progress as the Ford crawled up the hill. ‘Willie I think you should give it more hay’.
Now my grandfather not only had a horse and cart but also a motor vehicle and journeys could be farther a field. I was told that on one occasion when the Ford was piled high with the furniture of a family moving to Scarborough the Ford failed in its attempt to climb Burke Brow bank, heading towards Whitby It had to be turned round and reversed up the bank and then turned round again at the top to carry on the journey (Reverse is a lower gear than bottom).I wonder what people would think now if on a steep motorway gradient commercial vehicle started turning round and reversing up. In any event grandfather’s sign on the chip van outside the Commercial Hotel in Cheapside Spennymoor now read. Haulage by horse and motor.
O September 5th 1921 another milestone occurred. Annie Williams wife of William Henry Williams gave birth to an infant son, my father. What could they call him? I suppose if you think you are wonderful you can name him after yourself. So my father was at St Andrew’s Church spennymoor christened William Henry Williams and became known as Harry.
A lot of people contacted me saying I should write a book. I already had written ‘Chapter 1’ which I have put on here over the last week. What do you think? Please give me your opinion, Good or Bad. As I have said, because of my illness I would be unable to write it alone. Does anyone know or could recomend authors who do this type of work, who perhaps I could work with? Please tell me
Carl
Can’t help with the authoring side but a book is an excellent idea
Driver-Once-More:
Can’t help with the authoring side but a book is an excellent idea
hiya,
Same as above I know nothing about writing or the publishing of written works
but I said very early on when you started putting your memoirs on here that a
book would be well received.
thanks harry, long retired.
Driver-Once-More:
Can’t help with the authoring side but a book is an excellent idea
I have spoken to a author/publisist who would be prepared to write and publish, but would want me to pay a fee for teir time, saying he thought it wuld break even and cover publishing costs or make a small profit. I am not that desperate to have it published that I wuld pay to do so, and believe there would be quite a bit interest, so we’ll see how it goes, and perhaps smene on this site might be able to suggest someone who I can contact. Anyway thank you for your reply
As I said previously,Carl a book would be a great idea and well received by others of our road transport fraternity,BUT it would be a huge commitment,time wise,I would think long and hard.
Regards,
David 
harry_gill:
Driver-Once-More:
Can’t help with the authoring side but a book is an excellent idea
hiya,
Same as above I know nothing about writing or the publishing of written works
but I said very early on when you started putting your memoirs on here that a
book would be well received.
thanks harry, long retired.
Hi Harry
I can always count on you for your opinion,
many thanks
Carl
Paul, my son, and his girlfriend along with my elder grandson, Lucas kindly met me for lunch in Newcastle on Saturday and ran me home (Saving me catching the bus, that runs at Stagecoach speeds, the horse draw ones) and we came to a part of the motorway which just had two lanes and there were two artics with one trying to pass the other. It just showed how stupid speed limiters are and how they must have been put into use by politians who haven’t a clue about driving and the danger such stupid devises that govern commercials at exactly the same speed can create.
Paul was saying ‘Well they have to do something or you can imagine the speed that some drivers would go’, and my mind went back to when I was 17 and 18 all those years ago,
In those days my experience was limited to driving mostly two of our vehicles DPT100B (A Morris 2 Tonner FG with an integral pantechnicon body by Marsden) and NPT719D (A Morris J2 15cwt with a luton body).
Both these vans were able to be driven with a car licence at 17 years old, but both couldn’t carry much weight when you deducted the unladen weight off the GVW, and I did quite a lot of journeys to Sutton in Ashford, Nottingham , Loughborough and Leicester area with both vans with ATM yarn and were grossly overloaded. Also to Oldham, Manchester, Altringham area with Pyjamas and ATM yarn with both vans.
Being young and daft I never thought of the danger of driving overloaded vans to their maximum speed and thinking back now I cringe at the thought of what I got up to. Also I never stayed out overnight, always doing my deliveries and returning home and as you can imagine that lead to imaginative and creative filling out of the ‘Log Sheets’ we used those days.
The two tonner had a 3.8 litre BMC diesel engine with a four speed crash box and did a maximum of 50 MPH but usually maintained that uphill and down dale. The problem was that if you dropped a gear down to third you think you had dropped an anchor in the tarmac as it dropped to 20 mph immediately. When I think back it was quite like the speed limiters as I often was travelling along passing everyone until the road went downhill and I was still limited to 50mph. Once again I would remind everyone the speed limit was 40mph.
The J2 had just got a 1.6 litre diesel engine in it, and with a high luton body was often hindered by wind resistance. Again on a good day with the wind in the right direction and downhill I could wind it up to 56mph. We complained about the reliability of the J2 but thinking back now, no wonder after it was so abused.
All these years later after being stopped from driving I can think back at my driving in my teens and say ‘Thank heaven I survived’.
Thinking about DPT100B, the Morris 2 Tonner we had built by Marsden ad operated for about 12 years, reminded me of John Willetts.
John, now best known from his John Willetts Stonecraft business selling stone fireplaces all over the North East joined us when he was bout 18-19 and worked as a driver for about years. Years earlier his father had worked for us.
John mostly during his time with us drove DPT100B ad as I previously described it had a top speed of 50 mph. John was always complaining that it was too slow and asked the fitters if they could step the speed up, which was always declined. Eventually all went quiet and so we thought John must have accepted that this was what the FG was designed to do and that was it.
However, one Saturday he came in about lunchtime and parked up and for some reason one of the fitters had to go out for a few minutes and took the Morris FG. He came back, saying he couldn’t understand how John was managing with the van as he couldn’t get it into fourth gear as it was so slow. Examining it we discovered that john had found how to adjust the pump ad turn it up to make it go faster. Hoping not to be found out when he came back after each journey he would turn it down again and this time he had turned it down too much.
I never really got the opportunity of doing any journeys with any of our loaded large vans, as by the time I got to 21 I tended to have a full day’s work every day and unable to get away.
Apart from the chance every now and then of going by train to Warrington to collect new vans, which obviously were empty, my only journeys were picking up loaded vans from Thorn or Courtaulds and bringing them back to our depot at Green Lane.
However the one example was when HUP786H was stolen with a full load of fridges in Leicester. The van was seen, followed and stopped by the Metropolitan Police and I went down by train to bring it home.
As it had been stolen in Leicester it was a Leicester crime and the Local Police had requested that I collected the van from London and called at the headquarters of Leicestershire police. Stupid as it might seem the two police forces did not speak to one another.
Picking up the Bedford which was built on the KF 11.15 gvw chassis scuttle with a Marsden 2000 cu ft. pantechnicon body, I headed up the M1. The van was fitted with the 330 cu in diesel engine and a 5 speed David Brown box with normal single speed axle. I have read on this thread that they found the Tk’s sluggish, but I can assure you that this TK as all of ours were were as fit as hell grossing at just under its gvw. Also the van was high, with corresponding wind resistance, and I soon was heading up the M1 at about 65-70 MPH.
I cannot remember which road junction I had to turn off to head to the former stately home in a small village near Leicester which was then the County’s Police Headquarters, but I remember the road and slip road, off the motorway was downhill towards the roundabout where I needed to turn left. As I eased off the motorway I took my foot off the throttle expecting the Bedford to slow down naturally as I slightly applied the brakes. The van carried on and as I saw the roundabout looming I stood up from my seat and put all my weight onto the foot brake and only then did it stop to give way to the oncoming traffic.
As I say this was my only long journey with a fully loaded Bedford and I can safely say that they were fast, in fact too fast for the brake design.
Carl Williams:
I never really got the opportunity of doing any journeys with any of our loaded large vans, as by the time I got to 21 I tended to have a full day’s work every day and unable to get away.
Apart from the chance every now and then of going by train to Warrington to collect new vans, which obviously were empty, my only journeys were picking up loaded vans from Thorn or Courtaulds and bringing them back to our depot at Green Lane.
However the one example was when HUP786H was stolen with a full load of fridges in Leicester. The van was seen, followed and stopped by the Metropolitan Police and I went down by train to bring it home.
As it had been stolen in Leicester it was a Leicester crime and the Local Police had requested that I collected the van from London and called at the headquarters of Leicestershire police. Stupid as it might seem the two police forces did not speak to one another.
Picking up the Bedford which was built on the KF 11.15 gvw chassis scuttle with a Marsden 2000 cu ft. pantechnicon body, I headed up the M1. The van was fitted with the 330 cu in diesel engine and a 5 speed David Brown box with normal single speed axle. I have read on this thread that they found the Tk’s sluggish, but I can assure you that this TK as all of ours were were as fit as hell grossing at just under its gvw. Also the van was high, with corresponding wind resistance, and I soon was heading up the M1 at about 65-70 MPH.
I cannot remember which road junction I had to turn off to head to the former stately home in a small village near Leicester which was then the County’s Police Headquarters, but I remember the road and slip road, off the motorway was downhill towards the roundabout where I needed to turn left. As I eased off the motorway I took my foot off the throttle expecting the Bedford to slow down naturally as I slightly applied the brakes. The van carried on and as I saw the roundabout looming I stood up from my seat and put all my weight onto the foot brake and only then did it stop to give way to the oncoming traffic.
As I say this was my only long journey with a fully loaded Bedford and I can safely say that they were fast, in fact too fast for the brake design.
I can imagine a little bit of nervous tension released when you finally came to a halt Carl!!
David 
Carl Williams:
Paul, my son, and his girlfriend along with my elder grandson, Lucas kindly met me for lunch in Newcastle on Saturday and ran me home (Saving me catching the bus, that runs at Stagecoach speeds, the horse draw ones) and we came to a part of the motorway which just had two lanes and there were two artics with one trying to pass the other. It just showed how stupid speed limiters are and how they must have been put into use by politians who haven’t a clue about driving and the danger such stupid devises that govern commercials at exactly the same speed can create.
Paul was saying ‘Well they have to do something or you can imagine the speed that some drivers would go’, and my mind went back to when I was 17 and 18 all those years ago,
In those days my experience was limited to driving mostly two of our vehicles DPT100B (A Morris 2 Tonner FG with an integral pantechnicon body by Marsden) and NPT719D (A Morris J2 15cwt with a luton body).
Both these vans were able to be driven with a car licence at 17 years old, but both couldn’t carry much weight when you deducted the unladen weight off the GVW, and I did quite a lot of journeys to Sutton in Ashford, Nottingham , Loughborough and Leicester area with both vans with ATM yarn and were grossly overloaded. Also to Oldham, Manchester, Altringham area with Pyjamas and ATM yarn with both vans.
Being young and daft I never thought of the danger of driving overloaded vans to their maximum speed and thinking back now I cringe at the thought of what I got up to. Also I never stayed out overnight, always doing my deliveries and returning home and as you can imagine that lead to imaginative and creative filling out of the ‘Log Sheets’ we used those days.
The two tonner had a 3.8 litre BMC diesel engine with a four speed crash box and did a maximum of 50 MPH but usually maintained that uphill and down dale. The problem was that if you dropped a gear down to third you think you had dropped an anchor in the tarmac as it dropped to 20 mph immediately. When I think back it was quite like the speed limiters as I often was travelling along passing everyone until the road went downhill and I was still limited to 50mph. Once again I would remind everyone the speed limit was 40mph.
The J2 had just got a 1.6 litre diesel engine in it, and with a high luton body was often hindered by wind resistance. Again on a good day with the wind in the right direction and downhill I could wind it up to 56mph. We complained about the reliability of the J2 but thinking back now, no wonder after it was so abused.
All these years later after being stopped from driving I can think back at my driving in my teens and say ‘Thank heaven I survived’.
Hi Carl. Unfortunately, health problems with senior family members has meant I haven’t had much time to reply to any posts or work on our trucks, but the Foden did win the best Foden class at the Tyne Tees Run last weekend.
Anyway, enough of me: I would like to know what hill you went down and how strong the wind was to get NPT 719D (the wonderful J2) to 56mph. If you got it to go that fast how on earth did you stop it or even steer it?
Going on to John Willetts with the FG DPT 100B: I must confess I knew that he adjusted the pump and, to give it even more power, he also used the excess fuel lever. As I’ve said in a previous post, the needle on the speedo used to go round the clock to read half full on the fuel gauge at the bottom of the speedo head (approx 75/80mph) but it took it in it’s stride and never seemed to suffer from this abuse over the years. I have got to add, that what you have written about the early years of the business and your grandad is perfectly true as I have been told most of the story by your grandad, uncle Jim and various other family members. Keep up the excellent work Carl.
Hope everyone else is OK. Peter
5thwheel:
Carl Williams:
I never really got the opportunity of doing any journeys with any of our loaded large vans, as by the time I got to 21 I tended to have a full day’s work every day and unable to get away.
Apart from the chance every now and then of going by train to Warrington to collect new vans, which obviously were empty, my only journeys were picking up loaded vans from Thorn or Courtaulds and bringing them back to our depot at Green Lane.
However the one example was when HUP786H was stolen with a full load of fridges in Leicester. The van was seen, followed and stopped by the Metropolitan Police and I went down by train to bring it home.
As it had been stolen in Leicester it was a Leicester crime and the Local Police had requested that I collected the van from London and called at the headquarters of Leicestershire police. Stupid as it might seem the two police forces did not speak to one another.
Picking up the Bedford which was built on the KF 11.15 gvw chassis scuttle with a Marsden 2000 cu ft. pantechnicon body, I headed up the M1. The van was fitted with the 330 cu in diesel engine and a 5 speed David Brown box with normal single speed axle. I have read on this thread that they found the Tk’s sluggish, but I can assure you that this TK as all of ours were were as fit as hell grossing at just under its gvw. Also the van was high, with corresponding wind resistance, and I soon was heading up the M1 at about 65-70 MPH.
I cannot remember which road junction I had to turn off to head to the former stately home in a small village near Leicester which was then the County’s Police Headquarters, but I remember the road and slip road, off the motorway was downhill towards the roundabout where I needed to turn left. As I eased off the motorway I took my foot off the throttle expecting the Bedford to slow down naturally as I slightly applied the brakes. The van carried on and as I saw the roundabout looming I stood up from my seat and put all my weight onto the foot brake and only then did it stop to give way to the oncoming traffic.
As I say this was my only long journey with a fully loaded Bedford and I can safely say that they were fast, in fact too fast for the brake design.
I can imagine a little bit of nervous tension released when you finally came to a halt Carl!!
David
Hi David,
You’re summing up sounds like someone who has had similar experiences?
But my problems didn’t end when I got to the police headquarters. I was greeted by three well-built CID officers who said to me that they would like the van unloading so they could examine the load and check it against the delivery notes.
The van’s load consisted of about 130 fridges and there was no way I was going to unload it and let them have a look and then load it back up again. From being about 12 years old I had unloaded many van loads fridges helping my dad, particularly on a Friday when we had wanted to get as many vans loaded as possible and we used to unload up to ten loads into our garage at Marmaduke Street so that vans returning on a Saturday could load up ready again to leave Sunday afternoons, and it was hard work. I accept that I expected our drivers to unload on their own but when they had a one drop load they always had help at the warehouses they delivered to and at the very worst had only to get them to the back of the van, and on multi drop loads they only had three or four at each drop and had sack barrows to wheel them in with, but no way could or would I unload a full load to have to load it again.
‘Help yourself’ I said, giving them the keys to the van. Going away to presumably have a séance were they hoped to contact the spirit of Houdini, to take care of things for them they came back saying they didn’t know what to do, and asked what would be happening to the load when I returned to Spennymoor. I explained it would be returned to Smart & Brown as they already had sent out a replacement load to their customers and that load had been charged to us, pending an insurance claim.
Seeing their worrying faces faced with the thoughts that they might actually have to do some manual work I suggested that if they put a seal on the rear shutter and tailboard I would see that no one touched the load until it was unloaded at Thorn’s and they agreed to phone Spennymoor police to ask if they could go to Smart & Brown’s the next morning to witness it being unloaded, explaining that they got on with Durham Constabulary and could speak to them unlike the MET.
My journey home was more comfortable as I kept my speed down a little to ensure I could stop the van if I wanted to.
Carl
Carl Williams:
5thwheel:
Carl Williams:
I never really got the opportunity of doing any journeys with any of our loaded large vans, as by the time I got to 21 I tended to have a full day’s work every day and unable to get away.
Apart from the chance every now and then of going by train to Warrington to collect new vans, which obviously were empty, my only journeys were picking up loaded vans from Thorn or Courtaulds and bringing them back to our depot at Green Lane.
However the one example was when HUP786H was stolen with a full load of fridges in Leicester. The van was seen, followed and stopped by the Metropolitan Police and I went down by train to bring it home.
As it had been stolen in Leicester it was a Leicester crime and the Local Police had requested that I collected the van from London and called at the headquarters of Leicestershire police. Stupid as it might seem the two police forces did not speak to one another.
Picking up the Bedford which was built on the KF 11.15 gvw chassis scuttle with a Marsden 2000 cu ft. pantechnicon body, I headed up the M1. The van was fitted with the 330 cu in diesel engine and a 5 speed David Brown box with normal single speed axle. I have read on this thread that they found the Tk’s sluggish, but I can assure you that this TK as all of ours were were as fit as hell grossing at just under its gvw. Also the van was high, with corresponding wind resistance, and I soon was heading up the M1 at about 65-70 MPH.
I cannot remember which road junction I had to turn off to head to the former stately home in a small village near Leicester which was then the County’s Police Headquarters, but I remember the road and slip road, off the motorway was downhill towards the roundabout where I needed to turn left. As I eased off the motorway I took my foot off the throttle expecting the Bedford to slow down naturally as I slightly applied the brakes. The van carried on and as I saw the roundabout looming I stood up from my seat and put all my weight onto the foot brake and only then did it stop to give way to the oncoming traffic.
As I say this was my only long journey with a fully loaded Bedford and I can safely say that they were fast, in fact too fast for the brake design.
I can imagine a little bit of nervous tension released when you finally came to a halt Carl!!
David
Hi David,
You’re summing up sounds like someone who has had similar experiences?
But my problems didn’t end when I got to the police headquarters. I was greeted by three well-built CID officers who said to me that they would like the van unloading so they could examine the load and check it against the delivery notes.
The van’s load consisted of about 130 fridges and there was no way I was going to unload it and let them have a look and then load it back up again. From being about 12 years old I had unloaded many van loads fridges helping my dad, particularly on a Friday when we had wanted to get as many vans loaded as possible and we used to unload up to ten loads into our garage at Marmaduke Street so that vans returning on a Saturday could load up ready again to leave Sunday afternoons, and it was hard work. I accept that I expected our drivers to unload on their own but when they had a one drop load they always had help at the warehouses they delivered to and at the very worst had only to get them to the back of the van, and on multi drop loads they only had three or four at each drop and had sack barrows to wheel them in with, but no way could or would I unload a full load to have to load it again.
‘Help yourself’ I said, giving them the keys to the van. Going away to presumably have a séance were they hoped to contact the spirit of Houdini, to take care of things for them they came back saying they didn’t know what to do, and asked what would be happening to the load when I returned to Spennymoor. I explained it would be returned to Smart & Brown as they already had sent out a replacement load to their customers and that load had been charged to us, pending an insurance claim.
Seeing their worrying faces faced with the thoughts that they might actually have to do some manual work I suggested that if they put a seal on the rear shutter and tailboard I would see that no one touched the load until it was unloaded at Thorn’s and they agreed to phone Spennymoor police to ask if they could go to Smart & Brown’s the next morning to witness it being unloaded, explaining that they got on with Durham Constabulary and could speak to them unlike the MET.
My journey home was more comfortable as I kept my speed down a little to ensure I could stop the van if I wanted to.
Carl
Knowing the police back then Carl,it was shrewd of you to insist you put a seal on the load,as I’m sure that a few fridges would have gone walkabout,you would have certainly been lighter going to Thorn’s!!
Nice tale Carl!
David 
Hi Carl,
Long time no see or speak I came across your posts while doing some research to see what was recorded about Oughton Carriers and to my amazement I came across your posts under the W H Williams banner .Having only just discovered the site I have not had time to read all of your posts however I will endeavour to get through as many as possible.I must dash now but here’s a possible answer to your quandary regarding the coachbuilder in Darlington who built our bodies M T Services Whessoe Road.
regards Barrie
Barrie Hindmarch:
Hi Carl,
Long time no see or speak I came across your posts while doing some research to see what was recorded about Oughton Carriers and to my amazement I came across your posts under the W H Williams banner .Having only just discovered the site I have not had time to read all of your posts however I will endeavour to get through as many as possible.I must dash now but here’s a possible answer to your quandary regarding the coachbuilder in Darlington who built our bodies M T Services Whessoe Road.
regards Barrie
Hi Barrie
Wonderful to hear from you. I, like you looked for photos of your vans, as I scoured the web looking for ours. Thanks for MT services name, although they never built anything for us, I think they did a repair or two and I remember looking round and at the time they were building two for Craigs Darlington.
Please, feel free to put any photos you might have on this thread, as after all our businesses were neighbours for about 50 years, and all that knew us would also know you. I, never took many photos when we were in business as the last thing I wanted to see were photos of our vans as I got sick of the sight of them working with them every day. Times are so different now as they bring back so many memories and when a photo turns up I am so pleased to see it, and I would feel as happy to see photos of yours as although we had so much stress and hard work nearly every minute it’s so good to remember what good times were.
You might have read I have vascular dementia and they have stopped me driving and strangely my memory is best from the late fifties-sixties and gets progressively worse as it reaches the eighties. I say, I think it’s because my mind did the work of ten minds for so many years, like we all did in haulage, that it’s worn out.
Hope you are keeping well and looking forward to hear more from you
Carl
Hi Carl,
Like yourself I did not have a lot of time for photography however I will try and sort out some from the family collection. I am sorry to hear of your health problems , my brother Dennis passed away a couple weeks ago after a long battle with dementia. I have only recently returned to driving after suffering a mini stroke in November last year ,however after more tests than the England cricket team I eventually was allowed to drive. I have had my share of health problems over the last ten years starting with a heart-attack in 2003 which was sorted by multiple by- pass surgery.I think if i’d had a truck as knackered it would have been scrapped years ago.
Whilst I cannot remember what happened ten minutes ago I can clearly remember events when I was a boy an example being when you spoke of times gone-by in Marmaduke St. events and names came flooding back . One particular character being Peter Cleary who drove for your Dad and maybe even your Grandad , as he walked past our house he would always speak to my Mother and if I was there he would call me Monkey Nuts.I have lots of memories of those days and no doubt will get round to sharing them with you.
regards Barrie.
pbsummers:
Carl Williams:
Paul, my son, and his girlfriend along with my elder grandson, Lucas kindly met me for lunch in Newcastle on Saturday and ran me home (Saving me catching the bus, that runs at Stagecoach speeds, the horse draw ones) and we came to a part of the motorway which just had two lanes and there were two artics with one trying to pass the other. It just showed how stupid speed limiters are and how they must have been put into use by politians who haven’t a clue about driving and the danger such stupid devises that govern commercials at exactly the same speed can create.
Paul was saying ‘Well they have to do something or you can imagine the speed that some drivers would go’, and my mind went back to when I was 17 and 18 all those years ago,
In those days my experience was limited to driving mostly two of our vehicles DPT100B (A Morris 2 Tonner FG with an integral pantechnicon body by Marsden) and NPT719D (A Morris J2 15cwt with a luton body).
Both these vans were able to be driven with a car licence at 17 years old, but both couldn’t carry much weight when you deducted the unladen weight off the GVW, and I did quite a lot of journeys to Sutton in Ashford, Nottingham , Loughborough and Leicester area with both vans with ATM yarn and were grossly overloaded. Also to Oldham, Manchester, Altringham area with Pyjamas and ATM yarn with both vans.
Being young and daft I never thought of the danger of driving overloaded vans to their maximum speed and thinking back now I cringe at the thought of what I got up to. Also I never stayed out overnight, always doing my deliveries and returning home and as you can imagine that lead to imaginative and creative filling out of the ‘Log Sheets’ we used those days.
The two tonner had a 3.8 litre BMC diesel engine with a four speed crash box and did a maximum of 50 MPH but usually maintained that uphill and down dale. The problem was that if you dropped a gear down to third you think you had dropped an anchor in the tarmac as it dropped to 20 mph immediately. When I think back it was quite like the speed limiters as I often was travelling along passing everyone until the road went downhill and I was still limited to 50mph. Once again I would remind everyone the speed limit was 40mph.
The J2 had just got a 1.6 litre diesel engine in it, and with a high luton body was often hindered by wind resistance. Again on a good day with the wind in the right direction and downhill I could wind it up to 56mph. We complained about the reliability of the J2 but thinking back now, no wonder after it was so abused.
All these years later after being stopped from driving I can think back at my driving in my teens and say ‘Thank heaven I survived’.
Hi Carl. Unfortunately, health problems with senior family members has meant I haven’t had much time to reply to any posts or work on our trucks, but the Foden did win the best Foden class at the Tyne Tees Run last weekend.
Anyway, enough of me: I would like to know what hill you went down and how strong the wind was to get NPT 719D (the wonderful J2) to 56mph. If you got it to go that fast how on earth did you stop it or even steer it?
Going on to John Willetts with the FG DPT 100B: I must confess I knew that he adjusted the pump and, to give it even more power, he also used the excess fuel lever. As I’ve said in a previous post, the needle on the speedo used to go round the clock to read half full on the fuel gauge at the bottom of the speedo head (approx 75/80mph) but it took it in it’s stride and never seemed to suffer from this abuse over the years. I have got to add, that what you have written about the early years of the business and your grandad is perfectly true as I have been told most of the story by your grandad, uncle Jim and various other family members. Keep up the excellent work Carl.
Hope everyone else is OK. Peter
Hi Peter
So pleased the Foden won a prize, a reward for all the work you put in to make such a good job of it. What is it like to drive?
I went down to Sutton In Ashfield many times with the old J2 loaded (Grossly overloaded) with ATM yarn. From memory it was 120 mile before the M18 was built. I had to do down past the Doncaster bypass and straight on towards Nottingham where the A1 turned left and I think I tuned left(or possibly right) at Ollerton roundabout, and did it I average 2 hours 20 minutes which is about 52 mph average.
Although it was slow pulling away, you could wind it up going down hill and once you got it going it kept going. I never needed to stop in a hurry thank god.
Best wishes and hope you are al well
Carl
One thing that was of particular worry to me, especially when we were down at Marmaduke Street, and before we bought the Wilcomatic vehicle wash was vehicle cleanliness.
We only had a wash bay within the garage at Marmaduke Street and as it was often full with loads waiting for vans to return at weekends to reload it was impossible to get them washed, so they had to be done mid-week.
The total image of our business was portrayed by vehicle turn out particularly at customer’s premises and even more when a van turned up at a home to do a household removal. What image does a dirty van give, and if it’s like that outside what is it like inside, where they intend to load your furniture.
Today I am amazed at the filthy state some of the larger removal contractors send out their vehicles. ‘The careful, professional one’ that is the largest seems to be the worst offender.
I just hope Harry Gill doesn’t read this thread. All this talk of “washing” and “water” will send him down with a severe attack of exposure!