Retired Old ■■■■:
I just hope Harry Gill doesn’t read this thread. All this talk of “washing” and “water” will send him down with a severe attack of exposure!
hiya,
I’ll have you know you could drive any vehicle I was designated without getting
your hands dirty from any of the hand controls in the cab, I wore gloves when
operating anything outside the cab, that was a different kettle of fish.
thanks harry, long retired.
Yesterday I went again on the bus to Newcastle. I have discovered that Ariva buses, although on average much older than the Go Ahead rivals travel at much quickers speeds, but even then it is a tediously slow service.
As we went through Birtley my mind obviously went to Geoff Pye, and if you are readng this, Barbara, how is he? I must arrange that we can come and take him out for ,that drink.
Geoff travelled every day, except when he was away overnight to and from his home in Birtley to Spennymoor by bus about two hours each day, and I was thinking ‘How did he do it’
Geoff mostly did removals and so was not away as much as the other drivers as a trip was at most one night away, but how many of the removals he did consisted of journeys that he did within his shift. For instance starting on a morning he would catch his bus to get to work for 8-00AM, get his van and porter and go and load at the house he was moving. This would take Geoff on average about 2 and half hours. (Geoff started loading and didn’t take a break until he was loaded working like a horse) Then probaby two or three hours journey to the new home and unload into the new home (2 and half hours) then travel home, With removals we were allowed a fourteen hour spread, so often returning back to Spennymoor quite late, then that dreadful bus journey back to Birtley with the thoughts I have to do the same tomorrow.
Geoff, you deserve a medal.
The only good thing was that Geff’'s work was excellent and the customers were aways very pleased giving tips generously in most cases
Carl Williams:
Yesterday I went again on the bus to Newcastle. I have discovered that Ariva buses, although on average much older than the Go Ahead rivals travel at much quickers speeds, but even then it is a tediously slow service.As we went through Birtley my mind obviously went to Geoff Pye, and if you are readng this, Barbara, how is he? I must arrange that we can come and take him out for ,that drink.
Geoff travelled every day, except when he was away overnight to and from his home in Birtley to Spennymoor by bus about two hours each day, and I was thinking ‘How did he do it’
Geoff mostly did removals and so was not away as much as the other drivers as a trip was at most one night away, but how many of the removals he did consisted of journeys that he did within his shift. For instance starting on a morning he would catch his bus to get to work for 8-00AM, get his van and porter and go and load at the house he was moving. This would take Geoff on average about 2 and half hours. (Geoff started loading and didn’t take a break until he was loaded working like a horse) Then probaby two or three hours journey to the new home and unload into the new home (2 and half hours) then travel home, With removals we were allowed a fourteen hour spread, so often returning back to Spennymoor quite late, then that dreadful bus journey back to Birtley with the thoughts I have to do the same tomorrow.
Geoff, you deserve a medal.
The only good thing was that Geff’'s work was excellent and the customers were aways very pleased giving tips generously in most cases
Hiya,
Well Carl I too went to Newcastle on the Arriva X1 West Auckland to Newcastle service
yesterday, Chester le Street to Eldon square via the A1 M one stop Gateshead I was en-
route to the Geordie drivers “do” at the Labour Club, a nice afternoon with lots of good
company, the club is very near the Eldon square bus terminus,Carl you should have come
in for a drink you would have been very welcome. PS that should read Bishop Auckland
to Newcastle service.
thanks harry, long retired.
Carl Williams:
pbsummers:
Carl Williams:
Paul, my son, and his girlfriend along with my elder grandson, Lucas kindly met me for lunch in Newcastle on Saturday and ran me home (Saving me catching the bus, that runs at Stagecoach speeds, the horse draw ones) and we came to a part of the motorway which just had two lanes and there were two artics with one trying to pass the other. It just showed how stupid speed limiters are and how they must have been put into use by politians who haven’t a clue about driving and the danger such stupid devises that govern commercials at exactly the same speed can create.
Paul was saying ‘Well they have to do something or you can imagine the speed that some drivers would go’, and my mind went back to when I was 17 and 18 all those years ago,
In those days my experience was limited to driving mostly two of our vehicles DPT100B (A Morris 2 Tonner FG with an integral pantechnicon body by Marsden) and NPT719D (A Morris J2 15cwt with a luton body).
Both these vans were able to be driven with a car licence at 17 years old, but both couldn’t carry much weight when you deducted the unladen weight off the GVW, and I did quite a lot of journeys to Sutton in Ashford, Nottingham , Loughborough and Leicester area with both vans with ATM yarn and were grossly overloaded. Also to Oldham, Manchester, Altringham area with Pyjamas and ATM yarn with both vans.
Being young and daft I never thought of the danger of driving overloaded vans to their maximum speed and thinking back now I cringe at the thought of what I got up to. Also I never stayed out overnight, always doing my deliveries and returning home and as you can imagine that lead to imaginative and creative filling out of the ‘Log Sheets’ we used those days.
The two tonner had a 3.8 litre BMC diesel engine with a four speed crash box and did a maximum of 50 MPH but usually maintained that uphill and down dale. The problem was that if you dropped a gear down to third you think you had dropped an anchor in the tarmac as it dropped to 20 mph immediately. When I think back it was quite like the speed limiters as I often was travelling along passing everyone until the road went downhill and I was still limited to 50mph. Once again I would remind everyone the speed limit was 40mph.
The J2 had just got a 1.6 litre diesel engine in it, and with a high luton body was often hindered by wind resistance. Again on a good day with the wind in the right direction and downhill I could wind it up to 56mph. We complained about the reliability of the J2 but thinking back now, no wonder after it was so abused.
All these years later after being stopped from driving I can think back at my driving in my teens and say ‘Thank heaven I survived’.Hi Carl. Unfortunately, health problems with senior family members has meant I haven’t had much time to reply to any posts or work on our trucks, but the Foden did win the best Foden class at the Tyne Tees Run last weekend.
Anyway, enough of me: I would like to know what hill you went down and how strong the wind was to get NPT 719D (the wonderful J2) to 56mph. If you got it to go that fast how on earth did you stop it or even steer it?
Going on to John Willetts with the FG DPT 100B: I must confess I knew that he adjusted the pump and, to give it even more power, he also used the excess fuel lever. As I’ve said in a previous post, the needle on the speedo used to go round the clock to read half full on the fuel gauge at the bottom of the speedo head (approx 75/80mph) but it took it in it’s stride and never seemed to suffer from this abuse over the years. I have got to add, that what you have written about the early years of the business and your grandad is perfectly true as I have been told most of the story by your grandad, uncle Jim and various other family members. Keep up the excellent work Carl.
Hope everyone else is OK. Peter
Hi Peter
So pleased the Foden won a prize, a reward for all the work you put in to make such a good job of it. What is it like to drive?
I went down to Sutton In Ashfield many times with the old J2 loaded (Grossly overloaded) with ATM yarn. From memory it was 120 mile before the M18 was built. I had to do down past the Doncaster bypass and straight on towards Nottingham where the A1 turned left and I think I tuned left(or possibly right) at Ollerton roundabout, and did it I average 2 hours 20 minutes which is about 52 mph average.
Although it was slow pulling away, you could wind it up going down hill and once you got it going it kept going. I never needed to stop in a hurry thank god.Best wishes and hope you are al well
Carl
Hi Peter,
Just seen tis photo of your Bedford, looks like its at Brighton. Looking ery good for its age.
flickr.com/photos/57460403@N06/7488486040
Carl
Going back to the washing of vehicles, when we built green Lane we built a concrete washing bay that was large enough for an outside ramp for steam cleaning the underside and chassis of our large pantechnicons that with their ‘skirts’ were too close to the floor to get access underneath, and large enough to wash the outside manually with hose and brush, but we could not keep them clean.
The answer was a Wilcomatic vehicle wash, like a gigantic car wash that travelled a total length of 70ft and washed the front sides roof top and back of the longest of artics. It was expensive, in fact over the cost of two new rigid pantechnicons and so, although in theory it was capable of self service by the driver, we decided to employ someone who we could trust and give the responsibility of running and operating the wash, buying the detergent and draining and drying the brushes so that it did not freeze up during icy conditions, which would not only have damaged the brushes and done great harm to the operating system.
We gave this job to an ex-driver, Frank Morgan who had only recently left our employment to take a job that took him home each night to spend time with his wife and family. Unfortunately he had found employment at a saw mill and tragically lost an arm only three weeks after starting employment there, because of faulty equipment.
Frank made himself invaluable doing so many things that I could fill pages listing, including taking care of our two vintage Bedfords. In fact I was just watching Peter Kay telling the story of the closure of Granada Studios in Manchester, and them moving to the new Media city in Salford Keys. One of the many places he went with one or other of the Bedfords to film was Granada studios. Travelling with another of our drivers with a TM tractor unit with the 1937 Bedford on the back of a low loader they arrived at Granada ad asked where they could unload. As they needed about 80ft of level road they were directed round to the Coronation Street set that was by that time in the afternoon empty and so they unloaded there and the tractor and trailer returned to Spennymoor leaving Frank with the old Bedford.
Frank, settling himself to spend the night in the Bedford, so he was ready for filming first thing the next morning decided to ask the security guards where he could go for a drink, and was told he could go to the club within the Granada complex. When he got there there were many familiar faces from his viewing on TV. Anyone that knows Frank would realise that he soon fitted in and was the heart and soul of the party. As night progressed and people started to drift home he was asked where was he staying? ‘In the Bedford Hotel’ replied Frank and everyone were surprised when he explained that he was staying in the back of the Bedford van.
Dad’s account of going to see a Wilcomatic vehicle wash working always brought a laugh.
when we were considering buying a wash, we looked at a few and Wilcomatic became the favorite. The representative suggested that we went to see one in operation.The representative picked dad up and off they went to Bradford where one was operating in a bus depot.
Many times over the years i have gone with others who have driven me and I am sure many on this site will have experienced the problem that it is difficult to travel with another driver, or certainly some, where you are braking for them, and either wishing they woud slow down or in some cases speed up, in any case as a driver it is often difficult to settle without some degree of worry. So it was with dad and things got worse when the Wilcomatic rep talked about his spiritsualistic beliefs.
Telling dad he had lost his father but knew he was always with him, he went on to say that one day he was driving along a twisty country road rather fast and on a particular bend he father told him to slow down, which he did and just at that moment he came to an accident hidden by the bend and if he had not slowed down he would have been killed.
Dad said I ‘I thought to myself I hope he is with you today’.
With all the talk of clean vehicles, the question must be asked why this Atkinson is so filthy on these photos.
At the time it was being driven by Colin Watson and Colin tended to get through a high work load. He had a habit of ringing up the transport office telling them he would be back latish that evening and telling them to have a trailer loaded for him so he could leave early the next morning and leave the paperwork and delivery notes with the night-watchman for him to collect.
So it was not unusual for Frank and the likes of me that went home about 6-00Pm never to see him or the Atkinson to get it washed.
Both Colin Watson and Ronnie Harris had a spell in the transport office, one time and another during the seventies and both got sick and wanted to get back down the road.
Geoff Pye had the same in the warehouse, and poor Eddie Ramsey went into the warehouse, just before his sudden death just before his 65th birthday, when he felt unable to continue driving. For the likes of Colin, Ronnie and Geoff, I think it was good that they saw another side of the business and understood the problems faced on that side.
However I do think it is important that anyone responsible for managing drivers should have had an experience of driving, to understand what you were asking someone to do, and know what it was possible and not possible because you had done it.
Sadly these days so many management jobs in so many industries are given to so called graduates, who really haven’t a clue, but today as it is these so called graduates that are making managerial appointments, you can’t expect any better, because it is the blind leading the blind. Today everything is measured by the balance sheet. Years ago you knew when you had a good business. You felt it by having good, contented staff, were able to run good, tidy, well maintained vehicles, and had customers who you knew had confidence in the standard of your work. That was a truly good business. Balance sheets can be massaged and manipulated, and made to look good, but what is the point if you don’t know how to do the job.
Does anyone remember Ronnie Hodges? I have been contacted by his son,saying that he used to drive for us but the name doesn’t ring a bell. I have added him onto te list of former employees.
Carl
Your item on the OLD Atkinson that Colin Watson drove & being very dirty as he had not time to clean it, I remember it being solid on the bumper with rust & nothing would remove it sorry Carl!
Carl is Eddie Worthington OK no hear for ages?
Take care - Gordon
goggietara:
Carl
Your item on the OLD Atkinson that Colin Watson drove & being very dirty as he had not time to clean it, I remember it being solid on the bumper with rust & nothing would remove it sorry Carl!
Carl is Eddie Worthington OK no hear for ages?
Take care - Gordon
Hi Gordon,
Its surprising that we haven’t heard from Eddie for some time now. Hope he is well. Probably over in ■■■■■■■ at his caravan.
I think we were at Green Lane when you started, but when we were down at Marmaduke Street our neighbours at the bottom of the street were Oughton Carriers, who like us had been their from the 1920’s. Did you see Barry Hindmarch , from Oughtons has been in touch. So delighted to hear from him
Going to try to speak to Barbara, Geoff’s daughter over the weekend to find out how he is keeping. Will let you know as soon as I find out.
Carl
Does anyone know anyone who paints models ?
My mind drifts towards Christmas and I am looking for what to buy my two grandsons. Old dinky toys cost a fortune and there doesn’t seem to be any toy makers today making toys in that scale, and in any event I don’t like the current massed produced identical commercials, as they have no appeal to me with their lack of individualism and stuck on lettering, never mind models of them.
I can however buy the Corgy Bedford O model luton vans that are quite readily available, but Corgy have not had the wisdom to produce a version in the WHW cream & brown livery. So I thought I could buy two of these and have them painted.
If anyone has any ideas please tell me.
Carl Williams:
Does anyone know anyone who paints models ?My mind drifts towards Christmas and I am looking for what to buy my two grandsons. Old dinky toys cost a fortune and there doesn’t seem to be any toy makers today making toys in that scale, and in any event I don’t like the current massed produced identical commercials, as they have no appeal to me with their lack of individualism and stuck on lettering, never mind models of them.
I can however buy the Corgy Bedford O model luton vans that are quite readily available, but Corgy have not had the wisdom to produce a version in the WHW cream & brown livery. So I thought I could buy two of these and have them painted.
If anyone has any ideas please tell me.
Hi Carl, strangely enough I am getting some models repainted in WHW livery and one is for you (an O model Bedford would you believe) I was keeping it as a surprise for you. Lets see how they turn out first and see if they come up to expectations.
Hope everyone is well Peter
pbsummers:
Carl Williams:
Does anyone know anyone who paints models ?My mind drifts towards Christmas and I am looking for what to buy my two grandsons. Old dinky toys cost a fortune and there doesn’t seem to be any toy makers today making toys in that scale, and in any event I don’t like the current massed produced identical commercials, as they have no appeal to me with their lack of individualism and stuck on lettering, never mind models of them.
I can however buy the Corgy Bedford O model luton vans that are quite readily available, but Corgy have not had the wisdom to produce a version in the WHW cream & brown livery. So I thought I could buy two of these and have them painted.
If anyone has any ideas please tell me.
Hi Carl, strangely enough I am getting some models repainted in WHW livery and one is for you (an O model Bedford would you believe) I was keeping it as a surprise for you. Lets see how they turn out first and see if they come up to expectations.
Hope everyone is well Peter
Hi Peter,
Pleased to hear from you.
I am wanting an OB painted more or less like GPT was painted, JUP after its repaint and NUP,with a brown cab, cream wings and bumper, not how the 4d TPT was, orriginally or certainly not after the new body with a cream cab, brown wings and bumper I also thought I might buy a TK and have it painted how the first TK was.
Hope yours turn out ok, but would still like to hear advice from others. I can’t understand why a model maker has never made a Bedford-Marsden model. Hey really where iconic.
Best wishes
Carl
It’s easy to look back in hindsight. We made mistakes from time to time on vehicle choice, why did we? Thinking about it I think I can give a few answers.
Over the years I can certainly say we made our money with Bedford vehicles and overall I think if we had bought nothing but Bedfords we would have made more money. However in certain areas they had their weaknesses and that is why we looked and tried elsewhere, and I am over the next few posts whilst thinking about this tell you why.
My grandfather’s first vehicle was a Ford T model, one tonner and had several, the occasional Morris and at least one Ford A model. He always swore by the model T and late in life I met a mechanic who was very old at the time, had moved away and come for a visit to Spennymoor, and gone to see my grandfather. He had often repaired my grandfather’s Model Ts and they talked, whilst I listened about the problems they had experienced and how good they had been. How I wish I had recorded the conversation as they spoke of problems they had encounter and how Ford had improved this model truck. He and granddad spoke as how they wished they could have found one and done it up together. (Not that granddad would have got his hands dirty). I think this is when I developed my enthusiasm to restore and old commercial. (Similar to my grandfather, without getting my hands dirty).
Grandad told me the problems he had encounter with the A model Ford, that certainly had not been the success of the model T, and hours went by when he told the problems he had encountered by Morris commercials. I asked him why he had never bought an Austin and he told me how he had heard they were not as tough as Morris’s.
He then went on to tell me how he had bought his first Chev, and what a difference he had found. He bought several Chev’s until they became Bedfords, telling me that there was not much difference with his first Bedford to the Chev. The Chav/Bedfords were so different he told me, better to drive, better to keep on the road, and yet from time to time he bought the odd Morris. Why I can never understand, except that they must have been cheaper. He never bought another Ford, as for some reason they must have sickened him. When I was born, in 1947 we had 100% Bedford fleet,
As I explained at the last posting when I was born we had 100% Bedford fleet, and that stayed with the exception of the first of two Commer 8 cwt. small vans with the first in 1954. We had seen before this the first three of our Bedford SB pantechnicons which set new levels in the size of vehicles operated but they were petrol.
During the war dad had been drafted into the army and had been trained as a mechanic. (He was in the Royal Engineers). Arrangements had been made for him to attend an intensive course with Gardner to study diesel engines to become a barge engineer (The barges were powered by Gardner diesel engines) Informing him that although he had been brought up with petrol engines diesel would come into its own after the war and so this training would be a great advantage to him. What he didn’t realise at the time was that the need for barges was the D day landings in Normandy; It is remarkable that this was being planned way back in about 1941.
Fortunately for dad and possibly the army had he been travelling to Normandy of a barge and it have sunk or broken down, he was discharged from the army when they discovered the state of his eyesight. However he had been sold, way back in 1941 the value of the diesel engine.
In 1956 Bedford had no diesel engine and talking to others of the problems with the Perkins that was a popular choice to fit into Bedfords, particularly the problems of starting them from cold he opted to buy a Ford 4D. The 4D was so unreliable I am sure he regularly regretted that choice and that sickened him not to buy another Ford, completely missing the Trader range, which would no doubt have had more consideration as it was much cheaper than the Bedford SBs. It was until the D series had operated several years and talk in the trade giving praise that we succumbed to our next Ford, apart from Transits which had come along and put small vans into a new class.
As I explained in my last post our first non Bedfords in my lifetime were two Commer vans. These vans were based on the Hilman Minx carrying about 7-8cwt and fairy modern in appearance as design changed after the war.
The first was bought by my grandfather at Blackpool. It must have been about 1951 and I can just very faintly remember it. My grandparents used to go for a few days at a time, several times a year to Blackpool. I can remember dad and me used to take them, to Bishop Auckland when they caught the Primrose bus and they used to stay at The Queens Hydro Hotel on the North Promenade. Often my mother father and I used to go over on the Sunday and join them for afternoon tea at the Queens. Things were so different then, and the Queens was a lovely hotel on the South Shore and I used to enjoy going there, either for afternoon tea or from time to time when we stayed.
Back at Spennymoor dad went to Martin’s Bank (as Barclays was then) to collect the wages cash and the manager noticed dad and said ‘I have just had your father on the phone to arrange to pay for a van he has bought at Blackpool’. Dad was surprised as there had been no mention of him buying a van, but a few days later granddad returned, not on the Primrose as had been planned, but with a Commer van.
In the days of A licences, even a small 8 cwt. van had to be licenced and it went onto the A Licence as an extra vehicle. The Commer was such a success that a new one was ordered from Minories at Darlington (Slow delivery times in the fifties after the war) and in 1954 a new one arrived PUP101 and the first was sold. I can remember both the Commers had bench seats in the front with column change gearboxes so for the first time I could sit in the front seat, with no seat belts, of course in those days.
By our standard the Commers were not too useful, as you couldn’t even get a 3 piece suite inside but strangely they were always in full use every day. The main job they did was the Grocery deliveries for Thompson Stores Spennymoor and West Cornforth branches and I can still remember travelling sat on the back with my legs trailed towards the road with the back doors open as we delivered the groceries.
As I said there was always work to be done with them, no matter how strange and I remember going with my Grandfather to collect luggage at one home, and taking it to Whitley Bay whilst the family who had hired us to do so travelled by train to take there holiday and then at the end of their fortnight in Whitley Bay, along we went with the Commer van and brought back their luggage as they returned to Spennymoor by train. How times have changed.
A most interesting thread Carl,keep it up!!
David 
5thwheel:
A most interesting thread Carl,keep it up!!David
Hi David,
Thanks
I think I lived and experienced a very interesting time of road haulage industry, and together with facts and stories direct from those who were there, such as my grandfather, and grandmother (who also took a vital part in our business), together with her brother, my great uncle, and last but by no means least my dad and many drivers that worked for us over the years, I have direct knowledge from 1900 to 1986.
It would be such a shame that these stories would have been lost at my death, and so I hope they will be of interest to my grandchildren someday, and others who will look back at these times like we do of tales of the likes of Oliver Twist.
Great days before the likes of speed limiters Sat Nav vehicle tracking, mobile phones and all of today’s electronics in vehicles. Days when drivers were knew truly how to drive and were allowed to be human, and individuals, that developed the great operators and owners of wagons and vans. During the 20th century.
Carl
As I explained even though they were just 7-8cwt small van the Commer vans had to be on the ‘A’ Licence, so by 1957 dad thought it would be more profitable to put a very small luton van on instead. After all we did deliveries for several high street furniture shops and a van like that could also be used to carry furniture, including wardrobes and three piece suites.
Commercial Motor, in those days was the most useful place to read about vehicles and he found that Locomotors from Uxbridge had built several vans on the Bedford CA chassis, and in fact they had one in stock. Arrangements were made over the phone and to buy subject to it being built to the standards described.
Although I was only nine years old I had a very interesting journey off to London by train, over to Locomotors and back up to Spennymoor. From memory it was a very long journey and I was very tired when we got back home about 10.00PM at night.
In those days if you wanted a van in that size the main choices was Ford, Commer or Bedford, and I suppose the CA was not a bad van. Locomotors body building was exceptional. I remember sitting in the cab seeing every piece of wood was countersunk and screwed so it all could be removed, if needed. A real craftsman had built it, but the Bedford petrol engine only did about 30,000 before it had to be replaced with a reconditioned engine.
The one regret was that I never had the opportunity to drive it, as it was replaced before I reached 17 years old.
