ckm1981:
What I don’t understand is how VOSA would know if someone had pulled there card when they got Into the yard?
It’s not difficult, they look at the VU download and it will show your days driving, then the time you eject the card, then followed by some driving done with no card in the truck.
But they would have to prove it was you driving the truck.
That’s what I mean,very often we get in the yard and they are waiting for our vehicle so you fuel up eject your card then a shunter will jump in and put it on a bay ect ect,surely it’s nigh on impossible for you or them to prove you carried on driving.
Me too. I regularly get in the yard, and either my “spot” is blocked or if I have jump away quickly, I dive out and a yard monkey will move it with the spare key.
The last time I was chatting to the VOSA man that had stopped me, he said that he would disregard any missing mileage under a KM.
ckm1981:
What I don’t understand is how VOSA would know if someone had pulled there card when they got Into the yard?
It’s not difficult, they look at the VU download and it will show your days driving, then the time you eject the card, then followed by some driving done with no card in the truck.
But they would have to prove it was you driving the truck.
That’s what I mean,very often we get in the yard and they are waiting for our vehicle so you fuel up eject your card then a shunter will jump in and put it on a bay ect ect,surely it’s nigh on impossible for you or them to prove you carried on driving.
I think in this case with some 20 drivers being charged, The DVSA has targeted the company for some reason, a follow up from roadside check, previous problems or whistleblower.
Also the company might not be the size of company where they have people who shunt vehicles solely on site, so when DVSA came knocking and checked the downloads and started asking questions there was no reasonable explanation as to the times recorded on the tacho without a card, especially if the time sheets and other documents don’t match the times the listed on the drivers tacho card.
They don’t actually need proof as such just enough evidence to feel they can justify taking a case to court.
ckm1981:
What I don’t understand is how VOSA would know if someone had pulled there card when they got Into the yard?
Hoi,whats with the sensible question?
Ive not read this thread for a while and thought “six pages to tell someone to get proper legal advice?” Little did I know it had been hijacked by children who jyst have to have the last word. Even I would have nipped the argument in the bud by now.
I wonder if the Op still reads this thread or if they regret using the forum to ask for advice. Im betting shes told her hubby that not being a truck driver anymore might not be such a bad thing if this is how they behave.
I’m still not sure where this “out of scope” BS has come from. You cannot eject your card at the gate and continue working in the yard. It. is. not. allowed. I know we’ve all done it on occasion (well, I assume we have), but if it is standard practice at the yard it shows disregard for legal operating. Unfortunately, the PBD (Poor Bloody Driver) cops it as much as the company promoting the practice…
As I’ve said already, good luck to the OPs other half.
The Sarge:
Are you suggesting that dead-loss and conman are the same person??
lol, two numpties on here, The Sludge and switch-no-logic are going to be putting their heads together and solving a mystery.
That’s going to be interesting?
Maybe I should make my own attempt at checking whether these two fools are actually one?
…hhmm, no, couldn’t be bothered, better get myself some pop corn ready and see it live unfolding before my very eyes.
So, whats going to be your first move brainiacs?
I’m quite lucky in that after 2-3 nights out if I get back to our yard at say 2.20 pm I get told to go home and am also given instructions for my next day’s work…start times, run etc. I always eject my drivers card & then give my keys to the transport desk, and the next morning it is more common than not that my truck will be loaded and ready to go. Ours isn’t the biggest yard, so very little extra km could be added but a couple of hundred metres isn’t out of the question, with any numbers of small shunts possible. I have no idea if it is moved at 2.35 (10 mins after I have gone home) or at 5pm before the warehouse go home at 5.30.
Could a similar charge be aimed at me because the truck has moved after my card came out? I think that would be very flimsy evidence to bring to court! Good luck to the o/p’s husband if all he has done is go 2 mins over a 4.30 and driven his truck in his companies yard. I understand why VOSA are coming down like a ton of bricks if the company have been flouting the regs all over the place but to suggest this guy might lose his HGV entitlement seems way over the top to me.
I think any interest in you Born Idle would, as you say be flimsy at best. Primarily because you yourself have committed no offence as what happens to the truck when it’s out of your control has sweet fa to do with you. Plus, I imagine that your timesheet would legally back up what you say.
6 pages of pish when it comes down to 1, who cares,and 2, knowing and proving.how unimportant can it be to pull your card once your back at your base.then do whatever you like as its impossible to say who drove it till your next shift.ive had the same q asked several times by both plod and vosa for missing kms of 1 to hundreds of kms and theres nothing they can do to prove who drove it unless your an o/d away from home etc.if theres any penalty to be had,then the firm will cop it as collateral damage along with the more serious offences as like any other criminal charges,they will try to stick the max offences onto you,then see if you want to cop a deal for them binning the majority for a quick guilty for the main one.as far as the drivers concerned the reply is,it wasn’t me,no idea,dont know,dont care,its not my truck…go away not interested.end of.its all back to knowing and proving
As has already been said (I think) for whatever reason DVSA have investigated the company and found a large number of issues including apparent card removal. I would guess the company couldn’t supply answers for this and likely actually fingered the drivers in the hope of passing the blame to them - which won’t work. The DVSA will have sufficient evidence (including potential of drivers having dropped themselves in it in interview) to warrant proceeding to court. Of course this could be the culmination of many months of investigation without the company/drivers even knowing. These DVSA fraud investigation boys can be very thorough.
They will be more after the company than individual drivers but will of course take action against the drivers as well. Although most of the offences listed by the OP seem minor they must feel court action is justified and I doubt we have the full facts anyway. The 2 minutes here and there are just used to bulk up the prosecution of the serious bits - it’s the fraudulent activities they are after (missing records etc).
I think the TCs will get involved after the court cases and action will be taken against the drivers vocational licences but more worrying will be the action against the operator and TM that will affect the drivers. If there are 20 being prosecuted it’s pretty big really although I don’t know how many drivers are employed in total.
This is unfortunately where all these ‘minor’ offences and ‘repeat’ occurrences that don’t seem to matter act against the drivers and the DVSA will dig deep and go back a good way to demonstrate just how naughty they all are. If only the company had done as they should - analysed data, issued infringement letters, taken action where needed, trained drivers etc then these 20 drivers wouldn’t be where they are now.
I get annoyed with some of my tachograph analysis customers who moan about ‘all these infringements for just a few minutes’ I send them and I suspect many never reach the drivers … They just might be either thankful or sorry one day.
As already stated you need a solicitor to help you with this otherwise you will be hung out to dry. It will cost you but it’s the same as if your car or your boiler breaks down, you’ve no option but to find the money, and it will be worth it on the day
ckm1981:
What I don’t understand is how VOSA would know if someone had pulled there card when they got Into the yard?
It’s not difficult, they look at the VU download and it will show your days driving, then the time you eject the card, then followed by some driving done with no card in the truck.
But they would have to prove it was you driving the truck.
It was no different in the case of the old analogue tachos.The point is all about a vehicle being moved around without tacho accountability wether on or off the public road.As I’ve said there is no rule that says that breaks and duty can’t be accounted for by way of manual entry in the case of removing a chart or a card at point of destination in the case of ‘other work’ or break etc.
‘However’ the grey area is that,in the real world,from the establishment’s point of view,it is probably more a case of guilty until proven innocent not vice versa.IE ‘if’ ‘they’ think that a vehicle has been driven off road without tacho accountabilty,if/when ‘they’ think that it shouldn’t have been,it isn’t as simple as saying that ‘they’ would need to do all the proving.In general in the case of the defence ‘it was the shunter who moved it for example’ that defence would need to be proved and accepted to the satisfaction of all those involved.
dieseldog999:
6 pages of pish when it comes down to 1, who cares,and 2, knowing and proving.how unimportant can it be to pull your card once your back at your base.then do whatever you like as its impossible to say who drove it till your next shift.ive had the same q asked several times by both plod and vosa for missing kms of 1 to hundreds of kms and theres nothing they can do to prove who drove it unless your an o/d away from home etc.if theres any penalty to be had,then the firm will cop it as collateral damage along with the more serious offences as like any other criminal charges,they will try to stick the max offences onto you,then see if you want to cop a deal for them binning the majority for a quick guilty for the main one.as far as the drivers concerned the reply is,it wasn’t me,no idea,dont know,dont care,its not my truck…go away not interested.end of.its all back to knowing and proving
I personally know quite a few fellas who would wish what you wrote is true. The fact is, they got fined, and their Licences revoked for a couple of Months. The action taken against the company was a reduction in vehicles on the O licence. Guess who got the heave ho !!!
the maoster:
I think any interest in you Born Idle would, as you say be flimsy at best. Primarily because you yourself have committed no offence as what happens to the truck when it’s out of your control has sweet fa to do with you. Plus, I imagine that your timesheet would legally back up what you say.
Yeah I knew that, it was rhetorical but it seems the o/p’s husband is being prosecuted for something not a lot worse.
switchlogic:
No, I mean you. I long ago stopped taking this place as seriously as you do Chas. So sorry Keith old chap, you’re on to a losing battle…
Conor, anon84679660, Chas and Happy Keith are all the same person?
Not one person, but I don’t reckon they are four either. HKLoss seems to have this weird fascination with my sunglasses in a way that only Happy Keith has in the past. HKLoss (HK? Happy Keith?) pops up out of nowhere hating me when I don’t even know who he is let alone had any ruin ins with.
