The lights are on…
The-Snowman:
Your going to have to excuse my ignorance here but im not getting this. If the vehicle I get recovered in does not fall under EU regs then why can it not be counted as not working? Im not travelling to collect another vehicle that falls under the regs. Im going to get my car then go home. All in a non-EU reg’d vehicle
The vehicle you are in has nothing to do with it. It’s the fact that you would be under instruction of the company, ie not free to dispose of your time. You wouldn’t be free to dispose of your time as you wished until you had returned to your base and were in your own car/walked out the gate.
It’s the same as doing other non driving work, like doing paperwork in the office or sweeping the warehouse, those aren’t in vehicles under EU rules, but they still count towards your working time.
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
Travelling from home to work or otherwise does not count as driving time. If im off the clock,its my own time not working time. If I finish work after 9 hours and 45 mins driving,if I have a half hour drive home am I breaking the law by being over my 10 hours? Or if I worked from 6am till 2045 with the same half hour home is this illegal? Its not
it’s not about driving time, it’s about duty time. run out of driving time, but still have enough duty time left, then you can be recovered, run out of duty time, then the firm can’t recover you legally.
Travelling time
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.As I understand it,and im pretty sure im right but I may be wrong,cars and vans under 3.5T dont come under EU regs.
which is why you could run out of driving time but still have enough duty time left to drive the works van back perfectly legally, which would be recorded as other work. but if you’ve run out of duty time you couldn’t drive it back or be a passenger driven back in it.
as it says, unless it’s at your normal base or your home, then traveling time can’t count as rest, but if you’re out of duty time, then you must be on rest
It states “where a vehicle comes within the scope of EU rules”. A car or van under 3.5T does not.
Or I get a bus or train back and the company pays. (Whether I actually get reimbursed is another matter though!)
Also,if im travelling back to the companies “operational centre” then that can be counted as rest. If im reading it right obviously. The way I understand that wording is that I can travel to and from work legally without counting driving or work time. But if I then have to go from work another depot to pick up a truck then that counts as either other work or driving. But travel as either driver or passenger in a car or under 3.5T van then it counts as neither. You said it yourselfstevieboy308:
unless it’s at your normal base or your homeIf im going back to my normal base or my home Im not seeing what the problem is
Either way,me staying out at night due to a companys poor planning is not going to happen.dude… the vehicle you’ve run out of time in is in scope!! so your traveling time to or from where it is unless at your home or your normal base can not be counted as rest. if you’re going to your normal day run at your normal base, then that time does count as rest.
i’m not bothered in the slightest what you do or don’t do, but go into it with your eyes open, and if the risk reward ratio stacks up for you then crack on, but don’t ■■■■■ if it goes ■■■■ up
Im not looking to start an argument. Forums can,at times,be a good place to get information. But my understanding is if im travelling in a vehicle outwith EU regs,either as passenger or driver,then that can count as rest.
IE if I run out of time and they send a car to come get me then im not in a vehicle that comes under EU regs so is not duty time.
neither am i fella! but i think you’ve got it wrong and i’ve quoted the regs which i think back up what i’m saying. i think if you carry on as you are you’re leaving yourself open to fines or maybe tea and biscuits! fair enough if someone knows the risks and decides to take the chance, that’s up to them, but i wouldn’t want someone to get busted for a misunderstanding
dieseldog999:
The-Snowman:
dieseldog999:
.how do these prima donna drivers get a job,or more to the point,how desperate must the employer be to keep them working?..this is on a par for wanting to take a job as an astronaut,but not being prepared to travel…Prima donna? For wanting to go home at night and not spend it in a truck parked in a layby,[zb] in a hedge and eating a pot noodle then freezing my ■■■■■■■■ off all night before driving all next day?
That does not make me a prima donna,that makes me sensible. I have a domestic situation that means night out is not an option. If your happy to spend days and nights away from your wife/GF then that’s up to you. Me? Not on your life.
What guys like you seem to forget is its one thing to have a truck you are the only one who drives 99% of the time. You can keep all you essentials for a night away stored in it and its not a problem for you. Guys like me get different vehicles from different companies. Do you seriously think im going to humf a sleeping bag,kettle and all the other crap id need in and out of different trucks every day? Do me a favour.
Employers arn’t desperate to keep me working. Employers use me because im ■■■■ good at what I do. I come in,do the job,give it 100% and don’t ■■■■■ and moan about it all ■■■■■■■ day. I don’t “hang it out” to get more hours. I don’t skive off by sitting in laybys or taking over an hour for breaks. I do it as quickly as is possible and safe.
The only thing I will not,and never will,do is spend a night out. As I say,if you want to then knock yourself out.id have thought if you drive a truck not strictly non local deliveries,it would be prudent to take a travelling bag with you in case of unforeseen holdups. ive never eaten a pot noodle in the last 20 years since they invented microwaves,fridges,and 12 volt tv/dvd/internet etc. by the nature of the job,then it pays to be prepared,and accept the occasional unforseen hiccups.
So ive to take a sleeping bag,kettle,microwave,fridge,tv/dvd/internet etc with me in and out of trucks every day? Just incase? Prudent maybe. But practical? Hardly. That’s exactly what I meant when I mentioned guys with the same truck day in day out to guys who use different ones all the time.
There is a difference between unforseen hiccups and getting asked to go 60 miles away with only a couple of hours driving time left. The nature of the job does not mean a night out is sometimes a neccesity if you are with the right company.
To recap for any new readers:
There are those who refuse nights out.
There are those who refuse nights out but take a sleeping bag in case of unforseen events.
There are those so scared of spending the night in a truck they want rescuing.
Then there are drivers… 
Dipper_Dave:
To recap for any new readers:There are those who refuse nights out.
There are those who refuse nights out but take a sleeping bag in case of unforseen events.
There are those so scared of spending the night in a truck they want rescuing.
Then there are drivers…
Being willing to sleep in a cramped cab at no notice is the only way to be a “proper” driver?
Nope,still not buying it
All this ^^ also boils down to the differences between being stuck in a ■■■■ stinking lay bye at 1600 hrs on a summers day and parking up at somewhere like Tebay just as it goes dark where you can watch TV and have a pint .all really depending on what work you do ,now if I was the op I’d be heading for sherwoods j23 rather than trowell ,may be borrow a blanket .
take a sleeping bag and inflatable pillow, as lets be fair a breakdown or tyre blowing out can sometimes take hours before the cavalry arrives.
you can last for 24 horus without a bite to eat and a wash if pushed 
out of interest snowman, if you’ve had the mother of all days and you end up out of time 4 hours from base, the firm won’t rescue you, public transport isn’t an option, would you drive the truck back?
The-Snowman:
So ive to take a sleeping bag,kettle,microwave,fridge,tv/dvd/internet etc with me in and out of trucks every day? Just incase? Prudent maybe. But practical? Hardly.
Not all of those things are required for a one off emergency night out due to unpredictable circumstances; you don’t need a TV/DVD as you’ll be asleep for the majority of the time surely. Don’t you have internet on your phone? A sleeping bag, change of pants/socks/shirt, bit of washing gear and a toothbrush will be more than enough. You could even skip a couple of those items for 1 night, won’t kill you. Not much to carry and will all fit in a small bag. If that’s too much to carry then just take a credit/debit card and book in a hotel if you need all the extra comforts for one night. If you get all the money back it’s good but if you don’t you’ll have your night out money to cover part of it, depends on the price you put on comfort and how necessary some of those things are for 9 hours.
Prudent? Yes, especially at this time of year. It won’t be long before we are seeing the complaints from people who got stuck on a motorway because of snow and were there X amount of hours and it’s disgusting because they had nothing with them, because they are to dim to take a few emergency things. Happens every year and there are old threads on here from each year saying just that.
People need to take a little responsibility for themselves and think things through. I’m working from 18:45 to 19:45 only 8 miles from home today, I won’t be taking anything in the car other than what I need to do my job. If I was travelling a long way for work tonight I’d take some things in the car in case of breakdown or crap weather. It’s called planning and it’s not that difficult.
I’m not gonna single any particular poster(s) out here but when are you people going to realise that this industry isn’t a game? It’s a very peculiar industry that peculiar things regularly happen in. You can’t just disregard the rules when it suits you (at the same time bleating on here about the maniac lorry driver who was doing 45mph on a s/c). You may say that you’ll never ever ever do a night out and you’ll run bent to get home (that IS what you are saying basically), but when it all goes Pete Tong and you are pulled in for a roadside check in your 17th hour of duty that day, don’t cry about how unfair it all is.
A part of me secretly hopes for a massive purge by VOSA and maybe once all the people who don’t think the rules apply to them have taken out bank loans to pay their fines, then maybe the rest of us who do the job properly will have a better time!
stevieboy308:
out of interest snowman, if you’ve had the mother of all days and you end up out of time 4 hours from base, the firm won’t rescue you, public transport isn’t an option, would you drive the truck back?
As ive said,a night out is not an option for me. My domestic situation does not allow it. But I try to plan far enough ahead so that I have plenty time to get back,even if it costs me money in lost wages etc. 4 hours from base with no time left is bad planning on my part and id then concede I had to night out. Driving a truck while out of hours or taking my tacho card out is a no go no matter what.
Coffeeholic:
Prudent? Yes, especially at this time of year. It won’t be long before we are seeing the complaints from people who got stuck on a motorway because of snow and were there X amount of hours and it’s disgusting because they had nothing with them, because they are to dim to take a few emergency things. Happens every year and there are old threads on here from each year saying just that.People need to take a little responsibility for themselves and think things through. I’m working from 18:45 to 19:45 only 8 miles from home today, I won’t be taking anything in the car other than what I need to do my job. If I was travelling a long way for work tonight I’d take some things in the car in case of breakdown or crap weather. It’s called planning and it’s not that difficult.
If bad weather (snow etc) is forcast then of course id take stuff with me. Or not go to work that day. When I said night outs were a no go it was for companies planning stuff for me that made it tight or impossible. Not adverse weather that is reasonably forseeable
but a 12 hour run can easily become a night out so its not always planning issues.
i have had to do it ( sleep in a poxy lay bye about 10 miles from home ), however seeing as i had harldy got any sleep due to no night heater and it was f’ing freezing ( before i started taking a sleeping bag and pillow in my bag ) they let me run in and go home paid once i had done a local run (about 2 hours work in other words).
■■■■ happens in driving and as much as it ■■■■■■ people off its part of the job to me.
Dipper_Dave:
To recap for any new readers:There are those who refuse nights out.
There are those who refuse nights out but take a sleeping bag in case of unforseen events.
There are those so scared of spending the night in a truck they want rescuing.
Then there are drivers…
that would just about sum it up… 
Always used to carry a sleeping bag with me at the least.
Driver-Once-More:
Always used to carry a sleeping bag with me at the least.
+1…as would anyone with a reasonable degree of gumption.
If your driving a truck with a sleeper cab there’s a chance you may have to sleep in it ! transport is that kind of job you never no what’s going to happen so be prepared
As has been said on numerous times throughout this thread that apart from being laughed out of the transport office it’s not practical to take night out gear with you every day to work with you, especially in retail where I have spent the majority of my driving career, now I know that doesn’t make me a “proper driver” but I wont be losing any sleep (at home in my own bed) over that fact
Before you single me out as being the Devil incarnate look in any supermarket delivery truck and you wont see any signs of being prepared for a night out, as I have said earlier on in this thread, if I was given a run that I thought would involve me getting stuck out, I would refuse it simple as that, I admit it I’m not a hero like some of you guys
And of course…should your planner get lumbered with another borderline"day run"anytime…guess who gets it?