The-Snowman:
If I take on a job it is on the understanding I will not be sleeping out. My personal life means a night out is not an option. If I even think it will happen then I wont do it. And if things go wrong then the company will need to send another driver out. I am a day/night driver not a tramper. If I get given a sleeper then that is the companies choice of buying one. Not to justify leaving me stranded in a layby in the middle of (zb) nowhere. A night out is not part and parcel of trucking unless specifically stated as a possibility in my opinion
I have to disagree. Unless you are solely doing local deliveries, any run of 3+ hours can potentially lead to a night out if things don’t go to plan, which by the nature of the work they sometimes can. If you are not prepared to accept that, then you should look at a different career. If you have hit your maximum spread over time, then it would be illegal for the company to collect you, so you can’t expect them to do it.
Similar happened two me two weeks ago. One drop alfreton to brentwood. TM rings asks me to pick do a trailer swop with a driver who has run out of time and has one sainsburys tip left - dartford. Report my driving time to him and make it clear i am not sleeping in the disgusting truck they have assigned to me (57 plate premium full of crap with a bunk with 1000 stains). We will get you home mate… got seven left so doable.
At sainsburys 3 hours cant get back. you will have to night out. Cant as told you i couldn’t and have a booking tomorrow night for another customer. I got no kit (not booked for a tramp always ask) and cab is not habitable. So i run it back.
Reason i did it was tm has a duty of care to me as a driver, wrote what happened on back of print out and would be happy to explain the situation to the traffic commisioner. Yes i should have told him to stick it, but tried to help out as always do.
I think all these drivers who carry kit work in a different enviroment, at this customer the car park it about half a mile from the trucks and you dont drive past it. You have to get through two security turnstiles that fit one man just. 50% of the cabs are filthy and you could catch a nasty disease (antibac wipes on touch points on entry touch nothing else).
I am very happy to explain my actions to vosa, I don’t think they are un-reasonable at all. The key point is that from my records they can see i dont do this regular and am not running bent on purpose for my own gain. Did it 3 months earlier when had a breakdown printout clipped to copy of breakdown invoice in my records. TM has to have some responsibility too, yes driver can say no but when agency always trying to keep work flowing pressure can be put on.
whelmic:
If you are not prepared to accept that, then you should look at a different career.
Sorry,not buying it. I dont need a different career. I dont need to “just accept” I might be out at night. I just dont work for companies who send me to jobs that push me close to the 15 hour or 9/10 driving limit. There is no excuse for planning deliveries/collections etc that push you over your legal time. Adverse weather that is totally unforseen is one thing. Sending you from Glasgow to Aberdeen then on to Inverness and still expect you to be back at night is another.
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
calsdad:
Similar happened two me two weeks ago. One drop alfreton to brentwood. TM rings asks me to pick do a trailer swop with a driver who has run out of time and has one sainsburys tip left - dartford. Report my driving time to him and make it clear i am not sleeping in the disgusting truck they have assigned to me (57 plate premium full of crap with a bunk with 1000 stains). We will get you home mate… got seven left so doable.
At sainsburys 3 hours cant get back. you will have to night out. Cant as told you i couldn’t and have a booking tomorrow night for another customer. I got no kit (not booked for a tramp always ask) and cab is not habitable. So i run it back.
Reason i did it was tm has a duty of care to me as a driver, wrote what happened on back of print out and would be happy to explain the situation to the traffic commisioner. Yes i should have told him to stick it, but tried to help out as always do.
I think all these drivers who carry kit work in a different enviroment, at this customer the car park it about half a mile from the trucks and you dont drive past it. You have to get through two security turnstiles that fit one man just. 50% of the cabs are filthy and you could catch a nasty disease (antibac wipes on touch points on entry touch nothing else).
I am very happy to explain my actions to vosa, I don’t think they are un-reasonable at all. The key point is that from my records they can see i dont do this regular and am not running bent on purpose for my own gain. Did it 3 months earlier when had a breakdown printout clipped to copy of breakdown invoice in my records. TM has to have some responsibility too, yes driver can say no but when agency always trying to keep work flowing pressure can be put on.
If I was the traffic commisioner, I would certainly not accept that as a acceptable excuse. You took on the extra work knowing there was a risk that you would not make it home. When that happened, you should have stopped. Imagine if you had been involved in a fatal collision, you would almost certainly be spending some time at her majesty’s pleasure.
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
Travelling from home to work or otherwise does not count as driving time. If im off the clock,its my own time not working time. If I finish work after 9 hours and 45 mins driving,if I have a half hour drive home am I breaking the law by being over my 10 hours? Or if I worked from 6am till 2045 with the same half hour home is this illegal? Its not
The-Snowman:
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
Travelling from home to work or otherwise does not count as driving time. If im off the clock,its my own time not working time. If I finish work after 9 hours and 45 mins driving,if I have a half hour drive home am I breaking the law by being over my 10 hours? Or if I worked from 6am till 2045 with the same half hour home is this illegal? Its not
it’s not about driving time, it’s about duty time. run out of driving time, but still have enough duty time left, then you can be recovered, run out of duty time, then the firm can’t recover you legally.
Travelling time
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
Travelling from home to work or otherwise does not count as driving time. If im off the clock,its my own time not working time. If I finish work after 9 hours and 45 mins driving,if I have a half hour drive home am I breaking the law by being over my 10 hours? Or if I worked from 6am till 2045 with the same half hour home is this illegal? Its not
it’s not about driving time, it’s about duty time. run out of driving time, but still have enough duty time left, then you can be recovered, run out of duty time, then the firm can’t recover you legally.
Travelling time
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
As I understand it,and im pretty sure im right but I may be wrong,cars and vans under 3.5T dont come under EU regs.
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
Travelling from home to work or otherwise does not count as driving time. If im off the clock,its my own time not working time. If I finish work after 9 hours and 45 mins driving,if I have a half hour drive home am I breaking the law by being over my 10 hours? Or if I worked from 6am till 2045 with the same half hour home is this illegal? Its not
it’s not about driving time, it’s about duty time. run out of driving time, but still have enough duty time left, then you can be recovered, run out of duty time, then the firm can’t recover you legally.
Travelling time
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
As I understand it,and im pretty sure im right but I may be wrong,cars and vans under 3.5T dont come under EU regs.
which is why you could run out of driving time but still have enough duty time left to drive the works van back perfectly legally, which would be recorded as other work. but if you’ve run out of duty time you couldn’t drive it back or be a passenger driven back in it.
as it says, unless it’s at your normal base or your home, then traveling time can’t count as rest, but if you’re out of duty time, then you must be on rest
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
Travelling from home to work or otherwise does not count as driving time. If im off the clock,its my own time not working time. If I finish work after 9 hours and 45 mins driving,if I have a half hour drive home am I breaking the law by being over my 10 hours? Or if I worked from 6am till 2045 with the same half hour home is this illegal? Its not
it’s not about driving time, it’s about duty time. run out of driving time, but still have enough duty time left, then you can be recovered, run out of duty time, then the firm can’t recover you legally.
Travelling time
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
As I understand it,and im pretty sure im right but I may be wrong,cars and vans under 3.5T dont come under EU regs.
which is why you could run out of driving time but still have enough duty time left to drive the works van back perfectly legally, which would be recorded as other work. but if you’ve run out of duty time you couldn’t drive it back or be a passenger driven back in it.
as it says, unless it’s at your normal base or your home, then traveling time can’t count as rest, but if you’re out of duty time, then you must be on rest
It states “where a vehicle comes within the scope of EU rules”. A car or van under 3.5T does not.
Or I get a bus or train back and the company pays. (Whether I actually get reimbursed is another matter though!)
Also,if im travelling back to the companies “operational centre” then that can be counted as rest. If im reading it right obviously. The way I understand that wording is that I can travel to and from work legally without counting driving or work time. But if I then have to go from work another depot to pick up a truck then that counts as either other work or driving. But travel as either driver or passenger in a car or under 3.5T van then it counts as neither. You said it yourself
stevieboy308:
unless it’s at your normal base or your home
If im going back to my normal base or my home Im not seeing what the problem is
Either way,me staying out at night due to a companys poor planning is not going to happen.
calsdad:
Similar happened two me two weeks ago. One drop alfreton to brentwood. TM rings asks me to pick do a trailer swop with a driver who has run out of time and has one sainsburys tip left - dartford. Report my driving time to him and make it clear i am not sleeping in the disgusting truck they have assigned to me (57 plate premium full of crap with a bunk with 1000 stains). We will get you home mate… got seven left so doable.
At sainsburys 3 hours cant get back. you will have to night out. Cant as told you i couldn’t and have a booking tomorrow night for another customer. I got no kit (not booked for a tramp always ask) and cab is filthy etc…
Sorry but your duty of care and legal obligation to road safety superceeds anything you feel your boss owes you.
Refusing to have a night out becauze your nightie is going to get dirty is insane when there is a record of this event on the trucks tacho.
As far as needing anti-bacterial wipes go this is so girly I think your more likely CalsMum
Dieseldog66:
I would like to know if his base is Warrington, why was he at Trowell? odd way to go from the M25
i was thinking that as well 
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
Travelling from home to work or otherwise does not count as driving time. If im off the clock,its my own time not working time. If I finish work after 9 hours and 45 mins driving,if I have a half hour drive home am I breaking the law by being over my 10 hours? Or if I worked from 6am till 2045 with the same half hour home is this illegal? Its not
it’s not about driving time, it’s about duty time. run out of driving time, but still have enough duty time left, then you can be recovered, run out of duty time, then the firm can’t recover you legally.
Travelling time
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
As I understand it,and im pretty sure im right but I may be wrong,cars and vans under 3.5T dont come under EU regs.
which is why you could run out of driving time but still have enough duty time left to drive the works van back perfectly legally, which would be recorded as other work. but if you’ve run out of duty time you couldn’t drive it back or be a passenger driven back in it.
as it says, unless it’s at your normal base or your home, then traveling time can’t count as rest, but if you’re out of duty time, then you must be on rest
It states “where a vehicle comes within the scope of EU rules”. A car or van under 3.5T does not.
Or I get a bus or train back and the company pays. (Whether I actually get reimbursed is another matter though!)
Also,if im travelling back to the companies “operational centre” then that can be counted as rest. If im reading it right obviously. The way I understand that wording is that I can travel to and from work legally without counting driving or work time. But if I then have to go from work another depot to pick up a truck then that counts as either other work or driving. But travel as either driver or passenger in a car or under 3.5T van then it counts as neither. You said it yourself
stevieboy308:
unless it’s at your normal base or your home
If im going back to my normal base or my home Im not seeing what the problem is
Either way,me staying out at night due to a companys poor planning is not going to happen.
dude… the vehicle you’ve run out of time in is in scope!! so your traveling time to or from where it is unless at your home or your normal base can not be counted as rest. if you’re going to your normal day run at your normal base, then that time does count as rest.
i’m not bothered in the slightest what you do or don’t do, but go into it with your eyes open, and if the risk reward ratio stacks up for you then crack on, but don’t ■■■■■ if it goes ■■■■ up 
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
If I take on a job it is on the understanding I will not be sleeping out. My personal life means a night out is not an option. If I even think it will happen then I wont do it. And if things go wrong then the company will need to send another driver out. I am a day/night driver not a tramper. If I get given a sleeper then that is the companies choice of buying one. Not to justify leaving me stranded in a layby in the middle of (zb) nowhere. A night out is not part and parcel of trucking unless specifically stated as a possibility in my opinion
I have to disagree. Unless you are solely doing local deliveries, any run of 3+ hours can potentially lead to a night out if things don’t go to plan, which by the nature of the work they sometimes can. If you are not prepared to accept that, then you should look at a different career. If you have hit your maximum spread over time, then it would be illegal for the company to collect you, so you can’t expect them to do it.
+1…how do these prima donna drivers get a job,or more to the point,how desperate must the employer be to keep them working?..this is on a par for wanting to take a job as an astronaut,but not being prepared to travel… 
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
stevieboy308:
The-Snowman:
whelmic:
The-Snowman:
And if I clock off and am willing to be brought back without being paid after 15 hours and also not driving then its not illegal. Its only illegal if I still demand payment or am still “on the clock”.
The legislation does not differentiate between being paid and not being paid. Travelling to and from a vehicle must be recorded as other work. If you have run out of spread time then it is illegal.
Travelling from home to work or otherwise does not count as driving time. If im off the clock,its my own time not working time. If I finish work after 9 hours and 45 mins driving,if I have a half hour drive home am I breaking the law by being over my 10 hours? Or if I worked from 6am till 2045 with the same half hour home is this illegal? Its not
it’s not about driving time, it’s about duty time. run out of driving time, but still have enough duty time left, then you can be recovered, run out of duty time, then the firm can’t recover you legally.
Travelling time
Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver’s home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the driver is normally based but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.
As I understand it,and im pretty sure im right but I may be wrong,cars and vans under 3.5T dont come under EU regs.
which is why you could run out of driving time but still have enough duty time left to drive the works van back perfectly legally, which would be recorded as other work. but if you’ve run out of duty time you couldn’t drive it back or be a passenger driven back in it.
as it says, unless it’s at your normal base or your home, then traveling time can’t count as rest, but if you’re out of duty time, then you must be on rest
It states “where a vehicle comes within the scope of EU rules”. A car or van under 3.5T does not.
Or I get a bus or train back and the company pays. (Whether I actually get reimbursed is another matter though!)
Also,if im travelling back to the companies “operational centre” then that can be counted as rest. If im reading it right obviously. The way I understand that wording is that I can travel to and from work legally without counting driving or work time. But if I then have to go from work another depot to pick up a truck then that counts as either other work or driving. But travel as either driver or passenger in a car or under 3.5T van then it counts as neither. You said it yourself
stevieboy308:
unless it’s at your normal base or your home
If im going back to my normal base or my home Im not seeing what the problem is
Either way,me staying out at night due to a companys poor planning is not going to happen.
dude… the vehicle you’ve run out of time in is in scope!! so your traveling time to or from where it is unless at your home or your normal base can not be counted as rest. if you’re going to your normal day run at your normal base, then that time does count as rest.
i’m not bothered in the slightest what you do or don’t do, but go into it with your eyes open, and if the risk reward ratio stacks up for you then crack on, but don’t ■■■■■ if it goes ■■■■ up
Im not looking to start an argument. Forums can,at times,be a good place to get information. But my understanding is if im travelling in a vehicle outwith EU regs,either as passenger or driver,then that can count as rest.
IE if I run out of time and they send a car to come get me then im not in a vehicle that comes under EU regs so is not duty time.
dieseldog999:
.how do these prima donna drivers get a job,or more to the point,how desperate must the employer be to keep them working?..this is on a par for wanting to take a job as an astronaut,but not being prepared to travel…
Prima donna? For wanting to go home at night and not spend it in a truck parked in a layby,■■■■■■■■ in a hedge and eating a pot noodle then freezing my ■■■■■■■■ off all night before driving all next day?
That does not make me a prima donna,that makes me sensible. I have a domestic situation that means night out is not an option. If your happy to spend days and nights away from your wife/GF then that’s up to you. Me? Not on your life.
What guys like you seem to forget is its one thing to have a truck you are the only one who drives 99% of the time. You can keep all you essentials for a night away stored in it and its not a problem for you. Guys like me get different vehicles from different companies. Do you seriously think im going to humf a sleeping bag,kettle and all the other crap id need in and out of different trucks every day? Do me a favour.
Employers arn’t desperate to keep me working. Employers use me because im ■■■■ good at what I do. I come in,do the job,give it 100% and don’t ■■■■■ and moan about it all ■■■■■■■ day. I don’t “hang it out” to get more hours. I don’t skive off by sitting in laybys or taking over an hour for breaks. I do it as quickly as is possible and safe.
The only thing I will not,and never will,do is spend a night out. As I say,if you want to then knock yourself out.
The-Snowman:
Im not looking to start an argument. Forums can,at times,be a good place to get information. But my understanding is if im travelling in a vehicle outwith EU regs,either as passenger or driver,then that can count as rest.
IE if I run out of time and they send a car to come get me then im not in a vehicle that comes under EU regs so is not duty time.
If in any day you drive a vehicle in-scope of EU regulations you must comply with the daily rest requirements.
Any time travelling to take charge of a vehicle that’s in-scope of EU regulations that is not at your usual operational base or your home, or any time returning ̶t̶o̶ from a vehicle in-scope of EU regulations that is neither at your usual operational base or your home cannot be counted as rest.
It has nothing to do with your mode of transport to or from said vehicle, the travelling time cannot be counted as rest.
Article 9 - (EC) 561/2006
- Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location, when the vehicle is neither at the driver’s
home nor at the employer’s operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.
There was a company taken to court for this some years ago, Skills Coaches drivers used to travel to take charge of coaches that were not at base, even though the drivers were left to their own devises as to how they travelled the EU court decided that the travelling time could not be counted as rest.
Judgment of the Court (Fifth Chamber) of 18 January 2001. - Criminal proceedings against Skills Motor Coaches Ltd
tachograph:
The-Snowman:
Im not looking to start an argument. Forums can,at times,be a good place to get information. But my understanding is if im travelling in a vehicle outwith EU regs,either as passenger or driver,then that can count as rest.
IE if I run out of time and they send a car to come get me then im not in a vehicle that comes under EU regs so is not duty time.
If in any day you drive a vehicle in-scope of EU regulations you must comply with the daily rest requirements.
Any time travelling to take charge of a vehicle that’s in-scope of EU regulations that is not at your usual operational base or your home, or any time returning to a vehicle in-scope of EU regulations that is neither at your usual operational base or your home cannot be counted as rest.
It has nothing to do with your mode of transport to or from said vehicle, the travelling time cannot be counted as rest.
Your going to have to excuse my ignorance here but im not getting this. If the vehicle I get recovered in does not fall under EU regs then why can it not be counted as not working? Im not travelling to collect another vehicle that falls under the regs. Im going to get my car then go home. All in a non-EU reg’d vehicle
The-Snowman:
tachograph:
The-Snowman:
Im not looking to start an argument. Forums can,at times,be a good place to get information. But my understanding is if im travelling in a vehicle outwith EU regs,either as passenger or driver,then that can count as rest.
IE if I run out of time and they send a car to come get me then im not in a vehicle that comes under EU regs so is not duty time.
If in any day you drive a vehicle in-scope of EU regulations you must comply with the daily rest requirements.
Any time travelling to take charge of a vehicle that’s in-scope of EU regulations that is not at your usual operational base or your home, or any time returning to a vehicle in-scope of EU regulations that is neither at your usual operational base or your home cannot be counted as rest.
It has nothing to do with your mode of transport to or from said vehicle, the travelling time cannot be counted as rest.
Your going to have to excuse my ignorance here but im not getting this. If the vehicle I get recovered in does not fall under EU regs then why can it not be counted as not working? Im not travelling to collect another vehicle that falls under the regs. Im going to get my car then go home. All in a non-EU reg’d vehicle
No but you are travelling from where you’ve left one so the travelling time cannot be counted as rest.
Sorry but there was a bit of a typo in my last post, I’ve corrected it here.
Any time travelling to take charge of a vehicle that’s in-scope of EU regulations that is not at your usual operational base or your home, or any time returning ̶t̶o̶ from a vehicle in-scope of EU regulations that is neither at your usual operational base or your home cannot be counted as rest.
The-Snowman:
dieseldog999:
.how do these prima donna drivers get a job,or more to the point,how desperate must the employer be to keep them working?..this is on a par for wanting to take a job as an astronaut,but not being prepared to travel…
Prima donna? For wanting to go home at night and not spend it in a truck parked in a layby,[zb] in a hedge and eating a pot noodle then freezing my ■■■■■■■■ off all night before driving all next day?
That does not make me a prima donna,that makes me sensible. I have a domestic situation that means night out is not an option. If your happy to spend days and nights away from your wife/GF then that’s up to you. Me? Not on your life.
What guys like you seem to forget is its one thing to have a truck you are the only one who drives 99% of the time. You can keep all you essentials for a night away stored in it and its not a problem for you. Guys like me get different vehicles from different companies. Do you seriously think im going to humf a sleeping bag,kettle and all the other crap id need in and out of different trucks every day? Do me a favour.
Employers arn’t desperate to keep me working. Employers use me because im ■■■■ good at what I do. I come in,do the job,give it 100% and don’t ■■■■■ and moan about it all ■■■■■■■ day. I don’t “hang it out” to get more hours. I don’t skive off by sitting in laybys or taking over an hour for breaks. I do it as quickly as is possible and safe.
The only thing I will not,and never will,do is spend a night out. As I say,if you want to then knock yourself out.
id have thought if you drive a truck not strictly non local deliveries,it would be prudent to take a travelling bag with you in case of unforeseen holdups. ive never eaten a pot noodle in the last 20 years since they invented microwaves,fridges,and 12 volt tv/dvd/internet etc. by the nature of the job,then it pays to be prepared,and accept the occasional unforseen hiccups.