switchlogic:
royhebb2:
well done ukip, up yours if you didn’t vote them, you are now in the minority even if you don’t believe itI take it maths isn’t your strong point?
Well, in relation to the European Elections, he is correct.
bazza123:
switchlogic:
royhebb2:
well done ukip, up yours if you didn’t vote them, you are now in the minority even if you don’t believe itI take it maths isn’t your strong point?
Well, in relation to the European Elections, he is correct.
No he isn’t. 24 seats out of 73 isn’t a majority. And 27% of the vote isn’t either, not on a 100% turnout and certainly not on the 36% that actually voted. The fact of the matter is nearly two thirds of the electorate didn’t bother to vote, so saying non UKIP voters are a minority is a little premature to say the least.
switchlogic:
bazza123:
switchlogic:
royhebb2:
well done ukip, up yours if you didn’t vote them, you are now in the minority even if you don’t believe itI take it maths isn’t your strong point?
Well, in relation to the European Elections, he is correct.
No he isn’t. 24 seats out of 73 isn’t a majority. And 27% of the vote isn’t either, not on a 100% turnout and certainly not on the 36% that actually voted. The fact of the matter is nearly two thirds of the electorate didn’t bother to vote, so saying non UKIP voters are a minority is a little premature to say the least.
But surely the fact they got more seats than anyone else in the UK makes them… The majority? I agree turnout wasn’t brilliant, but the data on this website, with the exception of ICM, has UKIP ahead every time. See below
There is no other up to date data with which to draw other conclusions other than to say than at present, UKIP is the most popular party
He wrote that if you didn’t vote UKIP you are now in a minority. That’s clearly not the case, as I pointed out. If this were a general election those figures would allow them to form a minority government with another party but they dont have a majority, if they secured over half the seats available then they would have a majority, as it is all the other parties combined have more seats. The majority of people did not vote for UKIP. Dont confuse most popular with majority.
the only down side to ukip winning was the low turn out i agree as i expected more of a turn out say about 70% and ukips win would of been even bigger that much is clear but they did the job and its a major thing they have done to come from no where to end up winning all the other partys but its what we all expected as its what we all know how people are really feeling
so if the turn out had been bigger then ukips win would of been much bigger also
You wouldn’t get a 70% turn out at a general election these days let alone a Euro election. In recent times a 60/65% turnout is as about as good as it gets. 36% wasn’t bad for a Euro election, most people don’t care who their MEP is. Had the turnout been higher it isn’t necessarily the case that UKIPs victory would have been bigger. I imagine of all the parties UKIP had a high supporter turnout, so it could have been the case that most people who would vote UKIP actually did. Just a possibility.
switchlogic:
You wouldn’t get a 70% turn out at a general election these days let alone a Euro election. In recent times a 60/65% turnout is as about as good as it gets. 36% wasn’t bad for a Euro election, most people don’t care who their MEP is. Had the turnout been higher it isn’t necessarily the case that UKIPs victory would have been bigger. I imagine of all the parties UKIP had a high supporter turnout, so it could have been the case that most people who would vote UKIP actually did. Just a possibility.
It’s also possible that a fair few people who wanted to vote UKIP were browbeaten by the Labour and Conservative parties in to believing they were racist bigoted thick heads, who don’t understand that they should just do as europe says, and so dare not vote UKIP.
If they believe in what UKIP stands for then I see no reason why they wouldn’t vote for them. Last time I checked voting was anonymous. People like me may often be described as lefty tree hugging pc loonies but it would never stop me voting for a party I believe in, incidentally of which there are none currently. If anything I’d say much of the media coverage and the Tories and Labours response to UKIP has driven support to them, not away from them.
Agree with the above.
The mainstream media coverage of UKIP has been negative enough to make people feel they are voting for a plucky underdog who is daring to tell the truth.
To a certain extent this is true, and Nigel Farage has created a persona of the likeable bloke who you’d enjoy putting the world to rights with over a pint in the pub.
Whether this would make him suitable for Government I don’t know, but he is now instantly recognisable…while it’s hard to tell the ‘other three’ apart from one another. I have to keep reminding myself that Milliband is the one with the funny voice and hair, but I do struggle to tell the other 2 apart!
Frankly, I doubt UKIP could repeat this performance in a General Election, but I welcome the wake-up call they have given British politics.
Who will win the next general election?
Probably whichever of the Labour or Conservative parties which has the courage to change its leader as a matter of urgency. I don’t think Cameron is going anywhere (although with Theresa May as leaders the Tories would get an easy win), so Labour need to find a replacement for Ed asap.
It could be said that a lot of people might have voted UKIP, but couldn’t be arsed on the day, but now they’ve seen the strong showing this last week, they might actually bother to vote next year.
Our local ballot paper had two other names on it rather similar looking… United Kingdom for Independence and United Independence Party or something very similar… I couldn’t find a poll listing of those minor parties who presumably lost their deposit. They only read out the “monster raving loony 5 votes” type stuff on TV declarations it seems.
Do you think that those Tory & Labour voters who stayed at home for this Euro poll will be thinking “F-- F–! - Gotta get out there and vote, or UKIP will get in! I can’t stand my own party any more, and couldn’t be arsed to vote - but I gotta step in and vote to prevent UKIP!”
I would argue the UKIP poll is more likely to rise than fall in the election next year, because there are a lot more of the top paragraph around than the one just above. To prevent that, the main three parties will be very much “Message Received” - and re-double efforts to make sure all UKIP faux pas are reported in full by the mainstream-friendly media, whilst all episodes of Tories being worse with money than Labour, Libdem being more Europhile than Hitler, and Labour being less left wing than either of the other two… don’t get reported.
switchlogic:
If they believe in what UKIP stands for then I see no reason why they wouldn’t vote for them. Last time I checked voting was anonymous. People like me may often be described as lefty tree hugging pc loonies but it would never stop me voting for a party I believe in, incidentally of which there are none currently. If anything I’d say much of the media coverage and the Tories and Labours response to UKIP has driven support to them, not away from them.
Shows how little you know then.
BillyHunt:
‘…As for Ireland & Denmark, more fool them for allowing themselves to be bullied. … Wonder why they didn’t…?’
Answering that one is easy: The ‘they’ that didn’t resist were the politicians who would have been ostracised in disapproving retribution by the grey & unelected in Brussels/Strasbourg elite (not) for permitting democracy to flourish in their home ‘states’; their place at the trough no longer assured for life 
NB Lets see if Brussels take Clegg back after his dismal failure. My proud pound £ Sterling reckons not at the level he thinks he once had for life. The poor sap may have to begin proper work from a lower podium - undoubtedly begging to faithfully remain clinging on to the EU’s shirt-tails, either way paid-for by our taxation millions until a corporate death 
Meanwhile:
Olog Hai:
‘…A couple of very interesting insights into the mind of the average UKIP voter here. … but if you had the chance you would buy a one-way ticket to Australia or America and do exactly the same as the EEs do here? A little hypocritical…’
What on planet Earth is hypocritical about a desire to live, work and flourish in places of democracy and where the easily identifiable advantage of speaking the same language is an immediate attraction too?
How many migrants come to the UK without the slightest desire to integrate with language, values, skills, ablity or respect for indigenous, umpteenth generation Britons?
Incidentally, the USA & Oz are places whom the EU penalises the UK doing direct business with, ie., Brussels/Strasbourg commissions of varying greyness, dullness allied with their crippling bureaucracy has to ‘ok’ the UK trading with them: Flipping cheek 
So, seeing as non-EU believers are hugely relieved that at last the penny may be dropping from the eyes of Lib-Lab-Green-Conster buttock sharers, this nation still remains entangled by an embittered EU - as many pro-Independents now watch with interest to see how spiteful the federal behemoth sulks and otherwise beligerently behaves toward us - its cash-cow, after its overdue & well deserved kicking at the Polls 
Beats me why it is possible for the no speke English brigade to claim any kind of benefit whatsoever - by having an interpreter laid on for them at the benefits office.
I’ve heard a few arguing this week that “Working immigrants pay more tax than they receive in benefits”. Yeh. Sure Baz.
If that were true, then as it’s still possible to claim upto £520 per person in handouts, to pay the necessary £521pw in taxes to “be net paying more than one receives in benefits” - you’d have to have a job paying around £80,000pa!!! 
C’mon lefties - Let’s hear it: How many among the “new arrivals” let’s say are holding down £80k or better jobs right now? 
Remember: Anyone claiming housing benefits is going to be pushing straight away for that maxed out amount per week among the handouts…
IF the government kept the “open borders” policy, and let anyone who wanted to come here - carry on coming… Then scrapping all rights to benefits for a decent amount of time - like ten years plus - would not only reduce that flood to a trickle, but Europe could not possibly object - because we’ve kept our own borders open to all! Now… If someone migrated to say, Germany, WHAT handouts do they get from the German state when it turns out that there too, there’s no work for them, at least not paying enough for them to actually live on without state help? Looking at how other Europe states are "lurching to the right2 at the moment, one would expect immigrants to be getting benefit handouts in ALL major states - and not get it from the smaller countries in between.? 
Someone enlighten me as to how the benefits system works in other countries… Opportunity knocks for someone to educate me for a change. 
Your post @ 9.07 is as good an analysis as i’ve seen anywhere Winseer, well said.
Any combination of the above could apply, those who can’t be arsed to vote can’t be arsed who wins or loses and have effectively removed themselves from the argument, no good them moaning about the results of all the previous years and the gradual destruction of their jobs either.
Anything can and will happen between now and next year, the dirty tricks dept of the vested interests club will have to re-think, the anti UKIP ravings, aided and abetted by bussing in loud stereotype lefty type protesters from the usual two rentacrowd sites only added to their share of the vote, i hope they carry on the same but somehow doubt that they’ll shoot themselves quite so accurately in the foot again.
They’ll soon stop resorting to the usual ‘‘message received and understood’’ answer, indeed immediately following the results the usual slurs of racist etc were notably missing, maybe even they’ve (they can’t that thick can they) now realised unjustifiably insulting normal Brits is not the way to get to do as you tell them.
Lots of popcorn now in stock at Judd Towers, next 12 months will be very interesting.
As for Electoral Commission and those oddly named alternative UK Independence parties that somehow found their way onto the voting slips, Farage made mention of them yesterday and said he would tackle that in full today…looking forward to that.
Winseer:
‘…C’mon lefties - Let’s hear it:…’
And while you’re scratching for crumbs, why not also refresh that flimsy defence of the DCPC’s validity within the post-poll European busted flush to even half convince this doubter how on Earth it can ever benefit the UK with credibility
Yes, I noticed too that the “racist” slurs stopped once it was realised that the “racists” are now in the majority at least there’s more of them voting for their party than others voting for any one other party… “…the lunatics having taken over the asylum…” - as I’ve heard on the shop floor in the past few days.
Democracy is a funny old animal.
Who ARE these people who always vote the same, no matter how brutal be the shafting in progress 'round back?
Last time I heard, we’re even being told to “bring your own Vaseline” these days, so what on earth makes the disenfranchised Tory voter think Osbourne & Cameo are such swell guys? 
Happy Keith:
Winseer:
‘…C’mon lefties - Let’s hear it:…’And while you’re scratching for crumbs, why not also refresh that flimsy defence of the DCPC’s validity within the post-poll European busted flush to even half convince this doubter how on Earth it can ever benefit the UK with credibility
Perhaps the whole reason for DCPC was to make it harder for freelancing contract drivers (eg. agency) whilst making it easier for drivers working for a yard full time (likely on worsening T&Cs) which is the only way you get it paid for - yes?
Why make the industry harder and harder for new blood to get into, be that as a young person in their 20’s, or an older person who’s decided on a career change from some other line of work?
I tell me friends at parties I’m a rent boy, 'cos I’m too ashamed to admit I work more than 40 hours a week for a pittance!"
By the way, has that icon of open democracy in action, Tower Hamlets, actually finished juggling the figures yet?
Happy Keith:
BillyHunt:
‘…As for Ireland & Denmark, more fool them for allowing themselves to be bullied. … Wonder why they didn’t…?’Answering that one is easy: The ‘they’ that didn’t resist were the politicians who would have been ostracised in disapproving retribution by the grey & unelected in Brussels/Strasbourg elite (not) for permitting democracy to flourish in their home ‘states’; their place at the trough no longer assured for life
So you’re saying that either the Irish were denied a second vote and the politicians just said yes, or that after turning it down once the Irish people just caved in at the first hurdle, how very un Irish. So which one was it?
Winseer:
Yes, I noticed too that the “racist” slurs stopped once it was realised that the “racists” are now in the majority at least there’s more of them voting for their party than others voting for any one other party… “…the lunatics having taken over the asylum…” - as I’ve heard on the shop floor in the past few days.Democracy is a funny old animal.
Who ARE these people who always vote the same, no matter how brutal be the shafting in progress 'round back?
Last time I heard, we’re even being told to “bring your own Vaseline” these days, so what on earth makes the disenfranchised Tory voter think Osbourne & Cameo are such swell guys?
Being in the alleged majority doesn’t make racism any better or allowable. The more you claim not be racist the more you come over as just that, it’s only you bringing it up after all. What next, some of my best friends are black, as a sort of guarantee agains being one.
Once again you are thinking personalities instead of policies. I don’t vote Tory because I think Cameron or Osborne are “swell guys”. Any more that I don’t vote ukip because I think farage is a shifty conman, a career politician in a one issue party that has had a good week. Or even because my father/grandfather did, I never met them is I’ve no idea of their politics. I vote for the because I believe they are the best party to get the country on track, as they have been doing. All the things ukip won’t be able to do for many years, if ever.