Turbot, what are you expecting me to say? Ooh you were all right after all, I don’t think so. I’m expecting, as I’ve said before, ukip to make gains, meaning more of them making a fortune out of the European Parliament, without actually turning up to do anything like voting, all the while complaining about the place. Does that mean anything will change? No it won’t. I do look forward to this time next year to see what you think ukip have achieved for you all. I suspect very little, if anything.
Fatboy, I’m aware of that but they don’t vote here so I’m not interested in them. We shall see just how much it means to people when the results come out.
OssieD, I’m not worried & I don’t think the parties are either, it’s just the media trying to stir it up as usual. To be fair if it wasn’t for ukip, now that the bnp seem to have disappeared, this election would pass most people by, as the piece says, to most of us Europe is way down the list of priorities come general election time. Ukip have no plan for that because even they know they won’t need one.
made me chuckle
Billyhunt wrote
OssieD, I’m not worried & I don’t think the parties are either, it’s just the media trying to stir it up as usual. To be fair if it wasn’t for ukip, now that the bnp seem to have disappeared, this election would pass most people by, as the piece says, to most of us Europe is way down the list of priorities come general election time. Ukip have no plan for that because even they know they won’t need one.
[/quote]
Seeing as its voting day tomorrow we’ll have to beg to differ on this subject, knowing your still on the road you take care of yourself as I’ve finished my time on the road but I dare say we’ll cross swords this time next year before the GE.
Ossie
bazza123:
Dennisthemenace:
OssieD:
Getting out of the EU will solve so many problems in one go, like all the many thousands of dictates imposed on us over the past years will become obsolete we will no longer have to follow all of them to the letter, we will no doubt pick and chose what ones to keep and what ones to discard but the choice will be ours, not imposed on us by some faceless morons in Brussels, my little bug bear is my sight is getting bad due solely, according to my optician, be blamed on these new light bulbs that have been imposed on us even though they have been proved to be highly dangerous, if we are not in the EU we can import or manufacture what ever bulbs we want ( with permission of the green party of course). Some dictates we will have abide by to be able to travel or trade in Europe, the rest in the trash bin.Ossie
This country has no proper industry, everything is imported. So, leaving the EU would be a dead end street for Britain.
That’s not really true is it? Britain is still a big manufacturer of cars, pharmaceuticals and chemicals, electronics, aircarft components, fighter jets, warships, luxury boats and yachts, components for renewable energy, to name a few.
Europe would love to strangle our financial services in the City, if we pull out of the EU that would end all that.
I’m just sick of being told what to do by people most of us have never heard of!
Cars■■? Do not count the Nissan, the Peugeot, and the Toyota. Do not count the Mini, cos the Germans would close the Oxford plant immediately if Britain would leave the Eu. Aston, Jag, and Chelsea tractors only. They are (partly) British. Battleships■■? Made me laugh.
Surely there is only one reason “not” to vote Ukip - and that is, another mainstream party pledges to enact all UKIP’s popular policies right now… Not one politician wants to talk about actually stealing Farage’s fire by implementing his ideas first, so there’s no point in voting UKIP at all.
Imagine if we got a referendum this year, voted “no”, and Cameron enacted it by Christmas… Farage would be toast before the Turkey!
I think people who are voting UKIP in droves are more interested in the policies rather than the personalities… Think: What exactly can you STOP by voting for any of the three major parties - apart from Farage of course… You won’t stop the EU from taking your cash, the banks from taking your cash, or convicted criminals having more human rights than you - and taking your cash. There was a time when Tories represented “Law and Order” in this country. That should start with UK laws rather than Brussels dictats. Cameron is Prime Minster right now. If I were him, and I wanted to be rid of the UKIP threat, Get elected with a majority next year, and win the admiration of Tories everywhere… I’d do something drastic right now before someone like Theresa May removes me in a coup, looking at how she’s got bold enough to kick old bill’s knackers into next fortnight today. 
BillyHunt:
You could always give this a read, I hope it doesn’t spoil your evening.
Forget Ukip and these staggeringly irrelevant European elections
The party is poised for a second-place finish … exactly where it came in last time around.
In newsrooms across the country, articles chronicling Ukip’s rise and triumph are being prepared: whether it’s “the irresistible rise to power”, “Why the Conservatives must listen to Ukip” or “Ukip versus the Westminster bubble”, we’re getting ready to read a lot into the election results when they come on Sunday.Unless you’ve sat out the run-up to Thursday’s elections in a hermetically sealed bunker — and no one would blame you if you had — you’ll have spotted that Ukip was the only show in town. It’s not hard to see why: what’s the point in writing about the same old face-off between three uninspiring major party leaders when you’ve got Ukip, with their (superificial) challenge to the elite, their flamboyant leadership and, ah, colourful candidates?
The problem starts when we begin to believe the hype. Ukip is a bubble so over-inflated it makes the London property market look like a solid investment. The Ukip soap bubble is certainly big and certainly shiny, but it’ll still pop as soon as it’s given a good nudge. But how have we got here?
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The simple, bald fact is this: from a UK perspective the European elections are a staggering irrelevance. Despite Ukip’s oft-debunked claim that 75% of our laws are made in Brussels, the European parliament has minimal direct relevance on most issues our parties campaign on, or that voters care about.
The European commission proposes most European legislation; national governments (including the UK’s) have considerable say over what happens; and the European parliament often serves essentially as a rubber stamp. Given that both Ukip and the Conservatives sit in fringe groupings within the parliament, the impact of the UK’s vote on Thursday on political decision making in Europe will be close to zero.
The parties notice this, and that’s why their campaigns are essentially nonsense. The Conservatives are brazenly, and entirely falsely, presenting a vote for them on Thursday as a vote for an in/out referendum; Ukip is doing much the same. Both know they are talking nonsense: it’s for MPs in Westminster to grant such a referendum. MEPs have absolutely no power to do so.
The European election is a mummer’s farce, so it’s no surprise to see clowns performing well in the polls. When it comes to a general election, though, Europe drops dramatically down voters’ lists of concerns (it’s usually about 16th), while the UK economy, the NHS, crime and everyday issues rise to the fore — and minority party vote shares plummet.
Even this week, though, Ukip’s rise is less assured than you might think from the coverage. Lest we forget, Ukip came second in the 2009 European elections, securing around 16.5% of the vote (it peaked in polls ahead of election day at around 19%).
This time around it is helped by the near-total implosion of the (far nastier) BNP, which previously polled 6.5%, securing the party two MEPs. Working off a rough assumption that Ukip, though more moderate, will pick up the BNP’s anti-immigration votes, that gives it a rough base of 22%-23% from which to start. At the moment it is polling around 27% — hardly a surge.
It is entirely possible that come this weekend — five years and a million column inches later, Ukip will have surged from second place in an irrelevant election in 2009 to … second place in an irrelevant election in 2014, albeit with a few extra MEPs to collect lavish salaries and allowances, while turning up to vote less than any other UK party.
Minor parties often surge between UK general elections. In 1981, less than 18 months from a general election, the SDP-Liberal alliance polled more than 50% of the vote; but at the 1983 general election they secured just 23 seats. A week before the 2010 general election Cleggmania was in full swing and a nation’s commentariat wondered whether the party might even win more seats than Labour. As it transpired, it lost five seats.
And what of Ukip, just 12 months after its 16.5% triumph at the 2009 European elections? The party polled nationally at 3.1% and failed to secure a single seat.
Ukip is a cargo-cult political party: one man who connects well with voters trumpeting a half-arsed, barely factually coherent stance on a single issue most voters don’t care that much about. Under scrutiny the whole thing will — once again — collapse.
The one man who knows this more than any other is, of course, Nigel Farage. Faced with his party’s best chance to win a parliamentary seat in a decade — a by-election, timed alongside the European elections when his salient issue dominates the press, in the wake of a Westminster corruption scandal and in a rural Tory-leaning constituency — he decided … not to stand.
Farage knows he’s not leading a serious challenge. It’s time the rest of us worked that out too.
i would agree with you as its always been that way
however your missing the peoples mood in the country right now, and there mood is the nhs is over run with immigrants, factorys are getting over run, driving is getting more and more towards that way etc
in short
its affecting a lot more people than in previous years and there fed up to the teeth of the main partys as they are the ones who have created this mess ukip didnt create this mess, they formed as they seen this coming years ago but people wouldn’t believe them until its happened
i honesty hope that ukip win and not only win but win in huge numbers as it will send shock waves around all the main party’s all councils and all political correct types.
BillyHunt:
Turbot, what are you expecting me to say? Europe is way down the list of priorities come general election time. Ukip have no plan for that because even they know they won’t need one.
Billy, I appreciate you don’t share my opinions, I am up for the debate on Europe as I see a lot of things wrong that the three main parties have no intention or ability to put right. Europe will still be my number one priority next year at the general election as well. If enough people feel the same as I do things will change, that’s what democracy is all about.
As an aside the LIbDem’s insisted on holding a referendum on Alternative voting as part of their power list for joining the coalition, (they could just as easily held one on Europe, but didn’t, as could the Tories) If they had held their nerve and gone for Proportional representation, which they originally wanted, I think they may have got that through, then you would have seen some real changes next year. PR will eventually happen, I believe it is a fairer system.
There is no reason why we could not have had the Europe referendum before now, the three parties have all offered it as bait at various times yet none have delivered, why? because they know they won’t win. It will not go away.
We voted originally to join the common market, not what we have now.
BillyHunt:
‘…Farage knows he’s not leading a serious challenge. It’s time the rest of us worked that out too…’
Enjoying the drunken (and unnecessarily personalised) sensation of too much Brussels ‘Common Market’ Formula 
I agree; those faceless & broadly unelected EU Commu-Marketeers have done a brilliant job to dupe, distort and lie to our senses on their race to sink otherwise varied and vibrant European nation states to the homogenised bottom of an expensive & unwanted federal morass.
However, upon sobriety future historians will record how it ended in tears with a cold, wet, skint and foolish self-sensation of gullible stupidity on the day of democratic results 
Q. Baroness Ashton: Who? Why? Pedigree?
Q. Herman van Rumpuuy: Ditto
turbot:
BillyHunt:
Turbot, what are you expecting me to say? Europe is way down the list of priorities come general election time. Ukip have no plan for that because even they know they won’t need one.Billy, I appreciate you don’t share my opinions, I am up for the debate on Europe as I see a lot of things wrong that the three main parties have no intention or ability to put right. Europe will still be my number one priority next year at the general election as well. If enough people feel the same as I do things will change, that’s what democracy is all about.
As an aside the LIbDem’s insisted on holding a referendum on Alternative voting as part of their power list for joining the coalition, (they could just as easily held one on Europe, but didn’t, as could the Tories) If they had held their nerve and gone for Proportional representation, which they originally wanted, I think they may have got that through, then you would have seen some real changes next year. PR will eventually happen, I believe it is a fairer system.
There is no reason why we could not have had the Europe referendum before now, the three parties have all offered it as bait at various times yet none have delivered, why? because they know they won’t win. It will not go away.
We voted originally to join the common market, not what we have now.
What should be of more concern is WHY do politicians seem so keen to “do what Europe wants” instead of what their own people want…
Are they corrupt, having been paid off by foreign interests already? Are they so stupid they don’t actually realise what the public want? - Or do they merely fear that “doing what the public want” might make them personally poorer, turning society more towards merit and away from “old money” birth?
There’s probably arguments for all three being correct here, but I’d lump most of the money on the “corrupt” reasons. Are we not constantly told of the “financial disaster” (yeh for rich people perhaps) that leaving the EU would bring? Oooh the rich might have to pay people like us top-dollar to cart their luxuries to them, no longer capped down by crappy pay deals, Unions that have long since been emasculated could be corrected by the public getting “one shareholding one vote” so that one vote from the ordinary cancels out one vote of a Lord… That’s not what we get with either “A million votes for a million shares” vs “one vote for one share” is it?
10,000 small shardholders voting “NO” to the mega pay deal for the boardroom get cancelled out by Wathrington Smythe-Ptang-Pthang-Biscuit-Barrel who gets taken out to a fancy restaraunt and/or bordoir one night under “corporate hospitality”, and they “buy” his ten million share block vote… Whilst voting workers are told you CAN’T “block vote” anymore. 
The best “People’s Prime Minister”? - Not someone with all the high-place connections I think. Corruption is a disease. The introduction of a new generation of politicians of all ages representing the “unheard public” instead of the “bankrolling foreign powers” seems like a damned good idea to me.
Jeez… there was a time in history when people lost their heads for acting like our current generation of power-hungry public enemy morons FFS!
if labour had lassie or peppa pig as a candidate in a stong labour area, it would still win by a landslide, thats a fact 
so where does that leave us, 
right up the creek without a paddle rock on nigel I hope your different than the other idiots lib/con/lab
royhebb2:
if labour had lassie or peppa pig as a candidate in a stong labour area, it would still win by a landslide, thats a fact
seems he’s done well last night! The WAKE UP CALL IS COMING liblabcon LIARS! 
BillyHunt:
‘…ukip … making a fortune out of the European Parliament, without actually turning up to do anything like voting, all the while complaining about the place…’
You’re biting your own ■■■■ on these issues, matey.
Whether it’s a ‘…fortune…’ or not is hardly the point, but it is ironically the going rate which one of the hundreds of self appointed committees of the EU’s ‘self-licking lollipop’ undemocratically decided that itself was worth - as unaccountably bankrolled by UK taxpayers
Meanwhile, since UKIP does not lick of that same lolly, it is amongst the leading advocate parties - representing real people living real lives throughout the EU’s territory in democratically restoring independednce for their former nation-states too.
That demonstrates teamwork & true representation rather than grandstanding amongst the federation’s faceless sycophants in the pompous meetings you seemingly want your Euro MP to be at.
Frankly, I want my Euro MP doing something productive for the UK, not licking Van Rumpuuy’s, Barrosso’s, Kinnock’s, Merkel’s or Dame Ashton’s out-of-control waste pipes as they conjure up abominations such as the DCPC
BillyHunt:
‘…the bnp seem to have disappeared…’
You’re shooting from the hip without proper aim here too: The BNP was an option on my ballot paper on Polling Day 
It is here too… Some argued that it might cause UKIP a problem by “splitting the vote” - WTF?
According to the election results already in, UKIP are taking seats off all three main parties, but none whatsoever from BNP…What a load of ■■■■■■■■ the “split racist vote” argument therefore becomes.
It looks to me as if UKIP are splitting the main party vote across the board!
Listen to the arrogant incumbents playing it all down for next year… As far as I’m concerned, if some upstart MP who thinks he’s safe in his seat proverbaly bends over and moons at me, I’m going to take the trouble to dig out my best Doc Martens before taking careful aim!
Happy Keith:
BillyHunt:
‘…ukip … making a fortune out of the European Parliament, without actually turning up to do anything like voting, all the while complaining about the place…’You’re biting your own ■■■■ on these issues, matey.
Whether it’s a ‘…fortune…’ or not is hardly the point, but it is ironically the going rate which one of the hundreds of self appointed committees of the EU’s ‘self-licking lollipop’ undemocratically decided that itself was worth - as unaccountably bankrolled by UK taxpayers
Meanwhile, since UKIP does not lick of that same lolly, it is amongst the leading advocate parties - representing real people living real lives throughout the EU’s territory in democratically restoring independednce for their former nation-states too.
That demonstrates teamwork & true representation rather than grandstanding amongst the federation’s faceless sycophants in the pompous meetings you seemingly want your Euro MP to be at.
Frankly, I want my Euro MP doing something productive for the UK, not licking Van Rumpuuy’s, Barrosso’s, Kinnock’s, Merkel’s or Dame Ashton’s out-of-control waste pipes as they conjure up abominations such as the DCPC
BillyHunt:
‘…the bnp seem to have disappeared…’You’re shooting from the hip without proper aim here too: The BNP was an option on my ballot paper on Polling Day
But the fact remains, the ukip members rarely turn up to vote or attend any discussion, but they do manage to turn up for the expenses handout, don’t see many missing that line. Wether you like it or not they are politicians, just the same as any others
As for the bnp, as I said they SEEM to have disappeared, there is no sign of them up here at all.
Well as expected ukip have had a great day, making impressive gains in council seats in most areas of the country. They haven’t quite done enough to control any council so still have no power but still, you’d have to say a good result. Tbh I find it hard to believe they still took less seats off the Tories & lib dems than labour who I though had a ■■■■ poor campaign.
I was surprised to hear Neil Hamilton on the radio talking about the ukip gains, I was even more surprised, nay shocked, to hear he is the No2 in ukip! and I do mean No2. You lot kept that quiet.
But if the local election results are extrapolated to a general election the results would be as follows:
Labour 31%
Conservative 29%
UKIP 17%
LibDem 13% (IIRC)
Hardly earth shattering, think I will wait for the result of the european elections to see if they have made any real impact.
BillyHunt:
Happy Keith:
BillyHunt:
‘…ukip … making a fortune out of the European Parliament, without actually turning up to do anything like voting, all the while complaining about the place…’You’re biting your own ■■■■ on these issues, matey.
Whether it’s a ‘…fortune…’ or not is hardly the point, but it is ironically the going rate which one of the hundreds of self appointed committees of the EU’s ‘self-licking lollipop’ undemocratically decided that itself was worth - as unaccountably bankrolled by UK taxpayers
Meanwhile, since UKIP does not lick of that same lolly, it is amongst the leading advocate parties - representing real people living real lives throughout the EU’s territory in democratically restoring independednce for their former nation-states too.
That demonstrates teamwork & true representation rather than grandstanding amongst the federation’s faceless sycophants in the pompous meetings you seemingly want your Euro MP to be at.
Frankly, I want my Euro MP doing something productive for the UK, not licking Van Rumpuuy’s, Barrosso’s, Kinnock’s, Merkel’s or Dame Ashton’s out-of-control waste pipes as they conjure up abominations such as the DCPC
BillyHunt:
‘…the bnp seem to have disappeared…’You’re shooting from the hip without proper aim here too: The BNP was an option on my ballot paper on Polling Day
But the fact remains, the ukip members rarely turn up to vote or attend any discussion, but they do manage to turn up for the expenses handout, don’t see many missing that line. Wether you like it or not they are politicians, just the same as any others
As for the bnp, as I said they SEEM to have disappeared, there is no sign of them up here at all.
As far as I’m concerned Billy a vote for UKIP is a vote to leave the EU,and the sooner the better! I hear what you say about the UKIP MEPS picking up their Exces and,subject to how many seats UKIP win in the Euro poll I would like to see them boycotting Brussels,and staying here in the UK,a bit like Gerry Adams and his pal McGuiness who won election to the House of Commons but didn’t attend,but still got paid their salaries,well they have to live I suppose.Now my suggestion would really show those EU tossers in Brussels what the UK electorate thought about our membership of the EU,Jack ■■■■ !! Can’t wait for the Euro results on Sunday ! Cheers Bewick.
BillyHunt:
Well as expected ukip have had a great day, making impressive gains in council seats in most areas of the country. They haven’t quite done enough to control any council so still have no power but still, you’d have to say a good result. Tbh I find it hard to believe they still took less seats off the Tories & lib dems than labour who I though had a ■■■■ poor campaign.
I was surprised to hear Neil Hamilton on the radio talking about the ukip gains, I was even more surprised, nay shocked, to hear he is the No2 in ukip!
“They haven’t quite done enough to control any council” its a percentage game overall, the others will be looking at who voted for who and why, and how do we get them back.
They may have no direct power but their influence will now be huge. Expect lots of UKIP policies (I know there aren’t many) to become Labour, Conservative and Libdem policies. Why?, because they have just become proven vote winners
Well you have to look at who votes for labour, who else can they vote for?
I believe they have been keeping Neil and Christine a secret for a while, don’t know why.
I wonder what will happen in the European elections?
Héraultais:
But if the local election results are extrapolated to a general election the results would be as follows:Labour 31%
Conservative 29%
UKIP 17%
LibDem 13% (IIRC)Hardly earth shattering, think I will wait for the result of the european elections to see if they have made any real impact.
If you can get any politician to extrapolate a local or european election result into a general election prediction then please do so. They never do, it’s completely different.
UKIP have had some very good local election results, they will have some very good european election results, I hope they can have some good general election results next year. I think the Tories will wake up and win it. They will form some sort of pre election agreement with UKIP over europe. If they don’t Labour will win as UKIP will take a huge share of the Tory vote, then letting Labour in. Libdems? they are finished. They had their chance and blew it, UKIP need to make sure that does not happen to them.
An encouraging start, eh lads? - Mighty oaks from little acorns grow. You have to draw the conclusion that UKIP is not a flash in the pan and is not going to disappear with a whimper.
Establishment feathers are being thoroughly ruffled, and UKIPs support will grow and consolidate. They are the [u]only[/u] party who are tuned into the nations disenchantment, and I for one do not anticipate changing my voting allegiance (surprise, surprise!) come the General Election. Thanks to all who had the courage to vote for change - keep the faith and dont falter!! As for the detractors, fill ya boots, cos the aforementioned change (albeit gradual) is coming.