UKIP and DCPC

[ossied]

BillyHunt:
Excellent, now crack on and let me know what ukip are going to do to turn everything around. No need to mention getting us out of Europe, that a given, but what’s the plan after that. I’ve asked many times on this thread and so far have received not one answer, why is that do you think?

Sorry Billy but I think I asked that question of you a while back, what is your preferred party going to do for me, It seems they just want us to keep plodding along and let them shaft us some more, I’m open to be persuaded but nobody from the other parties wants to do that, all they want to do is slag off UKIP, they are all full off crap, all they seem to come up with is we might do this or might do that, half promises, and as they lied before so why not lie again, some of us have longer memories that they would like, and mine goes back to being lied to by Ted Heath about just joining a Common Market, which I whole heartedly agreed with at the time, but not with what we have now, well I would like to try and put that right for my kids and let them have the final say, they are both trades men, and if they are prepared to take the gamble as they are, I’ll do my bit. As to how Farage will get out of the EU I cant answer you as I simple don’t know, I leave that up to the people I hope and trust do.

Ossie

[rhythm_thief]

containers_only:
How can anybody from the driving and warehousing industry seriously post on here and say they can see no benefit for voting ukip! When you’re getting paid the same in 20 years as what you get paid next week maybe you’ll see! If you’re doing your job at £10hr and there’s 50 people down the road willing to do it for £6 you’re never going to get a pay rise never!
Of we had a bad winter this year there would have been power cuts due to no infrastructure for the amount of population caused by mass immigration.
And you’ll have 40 kids in a classroom.
With inflation at 2 percent, imaging trying to pay for what you do today in 20 years when things are 40 percent more expensive, you can always moan down the pub about how you can do nothing about it!

The point is that this is nothing but tabloid scaremongering, designed to whip up the ignorant and hard of thinking into a frenzy. When the supposed impact of immigration impacts on the wages of those at the top of the tree, perhaps I’ll believe that immigration causes wage depression. At the moment, I’ll stick with what I believe to be true, which is that the greed of those who - ultimately - pay our wages is the main factor responsible for those wages being lower than we think they should be.
I don’t know who’s told you that immigration’s going to cause power cuts, but that’s cobblers too. For a start, immigration is roughly balanced out by emigration, so net immigration is nowhere near as high as the Daily Wail would have you believe, and in any case, future government policy is far more likely to have a negative impact on energy supply than immigration. I freely acknowledge that selling off our energy infrastructure to EDF - as the Tories have done, in a nutshell - is not a smart move, but it’s got sod - all to do with immigrants.

[desypete]

Rhythm Thief:

containers_only:
How can anybody from the driving and warehousing industry seriously post on here and say they can see no benefit for voting ukip! When you’re getting paid the same in 20 years as what you get paid next week maybe you’ll see! If you’re doing your job at £10hr and there’s 50 people down the road willing to do it for £6 you’re never going to get a pay rise never!
Of we had a bad winter this year there would have been power cuts due to no infrastructure for the amount of population caused by mass immigration.
And you’ll have 40 kids in a classroom.
With inflation at 2 percent, imaging trying to pay for what you do today in 20 years when things are 40 percent more expensive, you can always moan down the pub about how you can do nothing about it!

The point is that this is nothing but tabloid scaremongering, designed to whip up the ignorant and hard of thinking into a frenzy. When the supposed impact of immigration impacts on the wages of those at the top of the tree, perhaps I’ll believe that immigration causes wage depression. At the moment, I’ll stick with what I believe to be true, which is that the greed of those who - ultimately - pay our wages is the main factor responsible for those wages being lower than we think they should be.
I don’t know who’s told you that immigration’s going to cause power cuts, but that’s cobblers too. For a start, immigration is roughly balanced out by emigration, so net immigration is nowhere near as high as the Daily Wail would have you believe, and in any case, future government policy is far more likely to have a negative impact on energy supply than immigration. I freely acknowledge that selling off our energy infrastructure to EDF - as the Tories have done, in a nutshell - is not a smart move, but it’s got sod - all to do with immigrants.

oh i see now its all because of news papers trying to scare people well thanks for letting me know that. and there was me thinking it was people showing they have had enough and are seeking to launch a huge protest vote to give all 3 main partys a much needed kick up the behind,
people around me are all fed up with the way things have turned out since we have let europe tell us what we can and can not do and the floods of people coming to this country,
tell me oh wise one
why do they all want to come and live here ? why dont they go to France or Germany or any of the other European country’s ? why has it got to be England they want to come to ■■?

[rhythm_thief]

See, there you go again, believing everything The Sun tells you to believe. Have a look at proper academic research into immigration figures and you see a rather different picture emerge. The agenda of the tabloids - and all the other newspapers, come to that - is and always has been to sell newspapers. They don’t reflect the mood of the nation, they create it. The groundswell of support for UKIP may well be a true reflection of how people are feeling, but I don’t believe that how people are feeling is anything other than a reflection of the job that the tabloids are doing in convincing people immigrants are to blame for everything.

[winseer]

It’s our benefits system that’s to blame. Everything else stems from that. Blaming an immigrant for coming here and milking the system is no worse than one of us who quits one haulage yard to work for another paying more money. Nowt wrong with that - is there?

The only immigrants who shouldn’t be here are the illegals who have nothing to do with EU quotas, and have crossed multiple countries to get here - all because our benefit system pays up quicker than every other country’s they’ve passed through. We don’t need to close our borders - just prevent those who’ve not paid in for a few years upfront from claiming anything at all, and that includes the new 1008 tax code as well!

[rhythm_thief]

Winseer:
It’s our benefits system that’s to blame. Everything else stems from that. Blaming an immigrant for coming here and milking the system is no worse than one of us who quits one haulage yard to work for another paying more money. Nowt wrong with that - is there?

The only immigrants who shouldn’t be here are the illegals who have nothing to do with EU quotas, and have crossed multiple countries to get here - all because our benefit system pays up quicker than every other country’s they’ve passed through. We don’t need to close our borders - just prevent those who’ve not paid in for a few years upfront from claiming anything at all, and that includes the new 1008 tax code as well!

That doesn’t stack up. Either immigrants are pushing wages down by working for less than the rest of us, or they’re coming here to claim benefits. Which is it?

[billyhunt]

OssieD:

BillyHunt:
Excellent, now crack on and let me know what ukip are going to do to turn everything around. No need to mention getting us out of Europe, that a given, but what’s the plan after that. I’ve asked many times on this thread and so far have received not one answer, why is that do you think?

Sorry Billy but I think I asked that question of you a while back, what is your preferred party going to do for me, It seems they just want us to keep plodding along and let them shaft us some more, I’m open to be persuaded but nobody from the other parties wants to do that, all they want to do is slag off UKIP, they are all full off crap, all they seem to come up with is we might do this or might do that, half promises, and as they lied before so why not lie again, some of us have longer memories that they would like, and mine goes back to being lied to by Ted Heath about just joining a Common Market, which I whole heartedly agreed with at the time, but not with what we have now, well I would like to try and put that right for my kids and let them have the final say, they are both trades men, and if they are prepared to take the gamble as they are, I’ll do my bit. As to how Farage will get out of the EU I cant answer you as I simple don’t know, I leave that up to the people I hope and trust do.

Ossie

Well at least you’re honest enough to say you don’t know, the thing is that nobody does, but they’re happy to put their trust in someone who has no idea either, bit odd that. Of course they slag off ukip, they all do it to each other, they’re politicians, or as I prefer to call them, professional liars.
My preferred party, the conservatives, have had to spend time cleaning up after the last fiasco labour left us with, coupled with a worldwide depression. Nobody said it would be easy, they did say when they got in that their were had times ahead and they were correct. Now things appear to be turning around, production up, almost back to pre depression times, and unemployment down so at least it’s going in the right direction.
Now some wag will come on saying these figures are made up to make them look good, it’s all a huge plot by shady people with some sort of world ■■■■■■■■■■ agenda, you know, the pseudo intellectuals we get on occasionally. Can’t wait

[rhythm_thief]

BillyHunt:
Now some wag will come on saying these figures are made up to make them look good, it’s all a huge plot by shady people with some sort of world ■■■■■■■■■■ agenda, you know, the pseudo intellectuals we get on occasionally. Can’t wait

Well … as it happens, I don’t have the relevant issues of Private Eye to hand, but I’ve certainly read a good deal in there about how Osborne has been guilty of massaging the figures to make it seem as if everything in the garden is rosier than it actually is. Of course, massaging figures in order to decieve the public has been part of the job of governments of all colours since time immemorial, but I wouldn’t like anyone to leave this thread thinking the Tories were an unmmitigated Good Thing.

[turbot]

Rhythm Thief:
See, there you go again, believing everything The Sun tells you to believe. Have a look at proper academic research into immigration figures and you see a rather different picture emerge. The agenda of the tabloids - and all the other newspapers, come to that - is and always has been to sell newspapers. They don’t reflect the mood of the nation, they create it. The groundswell of support for UKIP may well be a true reflection of how people are feeling, but I don’t believe that how people are feeling is anything other than a reflection of the job that the tabloids are doing in convincing people immigrants are to blame for everything.

gov.uk/government/uploads/s … aug-13.pdf

[turbot]

Rhythm Thief:

Winseer:
It’s our benefits system that’s to blame. Everything else stems from that. Blaming an immigrant for coming here and milking the system is no worse than one of us who quits one haulage yard to work for another paying more money. Nowt wrong with that - is there?

The only immigrants who shouldn’t be here are the illegals who have nothing to do with EU quotas, and have crossed multiple countries to get here - all because our benefit system pays up quicker than every other country’s they’ve passed through. We don’t need to close our borders - just prevent those who’ve not paid in for a few years upfront from claiming anything at all, and that includes the new 1008 tax code as well!

That doesn’t stack up. Either immigrants are pushing wages down by working for less than the rest of us, or they’re coming here to claim benefits. Which is it?

Both

[heraultais]

Just to get back to the premise of the OP, anyone who thinks that if they and enough people vote for UKIP, they then get in power within the EU, that they then by some means or other achieve the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, will culminate in the abandonment of the DCPC is seriously misguided.

However, if you are doing it to bloody the noses of the main parties, fill your boots, but I doubt if it will make much difference.

[rhythm_thief]

turbot:

Rhythm Thief:

Winseer:
It’s our benefits system that’s to blame. Everything else stems from that. Blaming an immigrant for coming here and milking the system is no worse than one of us who quits one haulage yard to work for another paying more money. Nowt wrong with that - is there?

The only immigrants who shouldn’t be here are the illegals who have nothing to do with EU quotas, and have crossed multiple countries to get here - all because our benefit system pays up quicker than every other country’s they’ve passed through. We don’t need to close our borders - just prevent those who’ve not paid in for a few years upfront from claiming anything at all, and that includes the new 1008 tax code as well!

That doesn’t stack up. Either immigrants are pushing wages down by working for less than the rest of us, or they’re coming here to claim benefits. Which is it?

Both

So you’ve got immigrants coming all the way across Europe in order to claim, what, 75 quid a week without working, and as a result, our wages have gone down to eight quid an hour. How does that work then?

[happy_keith]

BillyHunt:
‘…what are ukips plans for the economy btw…?’

Dear Billy

It is neither big nor clever to quote an entire post from a contributor back on the forum - whilst adding '…what are ukips plans for the economy btw…?

The clutter that you add by doing this is neither adds construction nor clarity to your obviously tribalist stance.

For manifesto plans, why not apply some independednt thought & consult their www pages

Good luck with wishing for a Tory led utopia, although by continuing to do what pro-EU tribalists have always done is very likely to reap exactly what they have always reaped for the UK, ie, more EU federalism & it’s associated inappropriate diktats (ie, the DCPC), more disenfranchised UK-zone ‘citizens’ (ie, ex British ‘subjects’ are now something alien) and further disipation of ‘political power’ to Brussels

[containers_only]

Rhythm Thief:

containers_only:
How can anybody from the driving and warehousing industry seriously post on here and say they can see no benefit for voting ukip! When you’re getting paid the same in 20 years as what you get paid next week maybe you’ll see! If you’re doing your job at £10hr and there’s 50 people down the road willing to do it for £6 you’re never going to get a pay rise never!
Of we had a bad winter this year there would have been power cuts due to no infrastructure for the amount of population caused by mass immigration.
And you’ll have 40 kids in a classroom.
With inflation at 2 percent, imaging trying to pay for what you do today in 20 years when things are 40 percent more expensive, you can always moan down the pub about how you can do nothing about it!

The point is that this is nothing but tabloid scaremongering, designed to whip up the ignorant and hard of thinking into a frenzy. When the supposed impact of immigration impacts on the wages of those at the top of the tree, perhaps I’ll believe that immigration causes wage depression. At the moment, I’ll stick with what I believe to be true, which is that the greed of those who - ultimately - pay our wages is the main factor responsible for those wages being lower than we think they should be.
I don’t know who’s told you that immigration’s going to cause power cuts, but that’s cobblers too. For a start, immigration is roughly balanced out by emigration, so net immigration is nowhere near as high as the Daily Wail would have you believe, and in any case, future government policy is far more likely to have a negative impact on energy supply than immigration. I freely acknowledge that selling off our energy infrastructure to EDF - as the Tories have done, in a nutshell - is not a smart move, but it’s got sod - all to do with immigrants.

Haven’t read a tabloid in 20 years! We were days away from power cuts last winter that’s how I know, the weather broke and it was forgotten! We would have had them year but the winters been mild, when we have a cold winter again you’ll see!
Imagine what your child’s education is going to be with 40 kids in a class! 20 of which have all the teachers attention because they don’t speak English! That’s not in any paper buys it’s obvious if you have your eyes open.
The only people I can see that are benefiting from immigration are employers, who can look forward to paying the same wages for decades whilst charging extra for products and services.
Like they’re saying on the tv news today, ‘the economy’s improving, and business is feeling better’, but with inflation still rising and zero pay rises, how’s that helping the UK British population?

[happy_keith]

BillyHunt:
‘…What else do ukip bang on about other than “get us out of Europe”…’

Let’s call it ‘self-rule’ for the UK - which is good enough for the devolution of the N.Irish, Welsh & Scots from Westminster (albeit under EU jurisdiction) but seemingly not something the Bed-Wetting Four wish for the UK to enjoy within the EU.

Strange

BillyHunt:
‘… I’m still waiting for an answer to my question about the benefits to the working man of getting out…’

How about some democratic representation of elected UK politicians doing what’s best for Britain instead of a homogenised greyness dreamed up by Euro-servants (see DCPC) - which ill-suits the masses of independently minded cultures, values and best-practice for nation states (an entity which the EU wants to rid us all of) for starters

BillyHunt:
‘…You appear to think we will be part of a brave new world where we won’t have to follow rules, no more WTD, no more DCPC, no more Tacho rules etc…’’

Rot: If it’s ‘best-practice’ for the UK and for us as its subjects we can become properly consulted & have democratic representation by people that walk our streets & who know UK needs - then fine: No-one is advocating a wild-west culture

BillyHunt:
‘…Bosses will put wages up beyond belief because all those nasty foreigners …’

Why do you write of foreigners being nasty? Please stop trying to assert a distorted stereotype of an advocate for independence that is simply inaccurate & wrong

BillyHunt:
‘…what we will get as a benefit of getting out…’

It wont be ‘…a benefit…’ but rather a mass of benefits - involving, eg:

1. Fiscal independence to spend as we need rather than putting our UK tax-gold where others simply pee into. Why should my tax pay to build an un-needed tram system in Spain - which is how the unaudited Eurocrats in Brussels spend my tax money

2. A rise of qualitative living-standard through being able to re-establish pride in our island nation identity

3. Focus for UK defence to be restored through our (hitherto diminishing but proven successful) NATO membership

4. Restoration & ownership of UK waters for UK fishermen to benefit the UK being but a few.

Next…?

[billyhunt]

Happy Keith:

BillyHunt:
‘…what are ukips plans for the economy btw…?’

Dear Billy

It is neither big nor clever to quote an entire post from a contributor back on the forum - whilst adding '…what are ukips plans for the economy btw…?

The clutter that you add by doing this is neither adds construction nor clarity to your obviously tribalist stance.

For manifesto plans, why not apply some independednt thought & consult their www pages

Good luck with wishing for a Tory led utopia, although by continuing to do what pro-EU tribalists have always done is very likely to reap exactly what they have always reaped for the UK, ie, more EU federalism & it’s associated inappropriate diktats (ie, the DCPC), more disenfranchised UK-zone ‘citizens’ (ie, ex British ‘subjects’ are now something alien) and further disipation of ‘political power’ to Brussels

Thanks for the input, as it happens I’m not very big or clever myself. The problem is I don’t really know how to cut out some bits & leave others in, I don’t know how to use the colour thing either, sorry. I do hope the rest of you have taken note about being constructive.
Of course I’ve had a look at their website, it’s nice & bright so what they’re promising must be true right?
I’m happy with the way my path to utopia is going, Tory led obviously, I prefer to be positive about things, I don’t think some foreign johnny, why are they always Romanian btw? I work with a Lithuanian, a German & a Portuguese, all good workers,is going to come and take my job for less money, I think I’m quite good at it as it happens.
If you think you’re so bad at your job that your boss will swap you for an, allegedly, thick non English speaking damage causing foreigner then you need to be having a good look at yourself & stop blaming everyone else.

[happy_keith]

BillyHunt:
'…why are they always Romanian btw…?

Because they are not stupid to dismiss the cash-cow that, under EU diktat, the UK is obliged to provide for them (and all other EU citizens) to milk, eg., at the expense of UK school-leavers - who are thus severely thwarted to find meaningful or rewarding employment within the morass of diversity that is too often too confrontational

BillyHunt:
‘…If you think you’re so bad at your job that your boss will swap you for an, allegedly, thick non English speaking damage causing foreigner then you need to be having a good look at yourself & stop blaming everyone else…’

My employer is obliged by EU diktat to treat me (as a ■■■■ fine worker & communicator of his product) the same as an illiterate from any EU member nation: How is that fair for our school leavers & how does it instil the sensation of being wanted by the rest of us in this island nation?

Little wonder that UK youth can’t be bothered to vote

[winseer]

Back on topic - wouldn’t we have taken the whole DCPC as a benefit to us IF it had involved a written exam element in English, so the longest you can be a driver from abroad here without the integration that speaking good English brings - is five years.

Without that written element, the whole thing is just a tax on jobs, and an open door for foreigners to take those jobs.

[desypete]

Rhythm Thief:

Winseer:
It’s our benefits system that’s to blame. Everything else stems from that. Blaming an immigrant for coming here and milking the system is no worse than one of us who quits one haulage yard to work for another paying more money. Nowt wrong with that - is there?

The only immigrants who shouldn’t be here are the illegals who have nothing to do with EU quotas, and have crossed multiple countries to get here - all because our benefit system pays up quicker than every other country’s they’ve passed through. We don’t need to close our borders - just prevent those who’ve not paid in for a few years upfront from claiming anything at all, and that includes the new 1008 tax code as well!

That doesn’t stack up. Either immigrants are pushing wages down by working for less than the rest of us, or they’re coming here to claim benefits. Which is it?

bbc.co.uk/programmes/b040rdf3

have a watch of this bbc panorama program called dont cap my benefits
you will see a bloke who has come from another country bringing his wife and 7 kids with him, he has a job that pays him 150 quid a week and he gets a further 800 quid a week from tax credits not to mention child benefits etc so he is on a hell of a wage a lot more than the 75 quid you seem to be talking about.
or dont you believe the bbc program ?
now that is just one person who claims such large handouts how many more are there ? give us the figures on how many more people come over here and are claiming such huge benefits ? employers pay them a pittance and the tax payer picks up the bill

oh and those people who end up out of work who are born here end up either working in jobs for just benefit money ( £ 75 ) or they lose there money while they sit back and watch Mr foreigner milk our system.

we all here of the councils who knock 2 houses into one to give familys who come over here a mansion of a home as there a large family etc just when is all this going to stop or someone is going to be brave enough to say thats it ?
put our own people first is what i belive in anyone who is born and bred in our country should be first on the list for jobs and given the chance to make a living for themselves in there own country

[billyhunt]

Happy Keith:

BillyHunt:
'…why are they always Romanian btw…?

Because they are not stupid to dismiss the cash-cow that, under EU diktat, the UK is obliged to provide for them (and all other EU citizens) to milk, eg., at the expense of UK school-leavers - who are thus severely thwarted to find meaningful or rewarding employment within the morass of diversity that is too often too confrontational
But they haven’t come in the millions that Nigel promised have they, in fact the numbers have gone down haven’t they? But my point was they aren’t the only ones coming here are they, and let’s face it they are here legally.

BillyHunt:
‘…If you think you’re so bad at your job that your boss will swap you for an, allegedly, thick non English speaking damage causing foreigner then you need to be having a good look at yourself & stop blaming everyone else…’

My employer is obliged by EU diktat to treat me (as a ■■■■ fine worker & communicator of his product) the same as an illiterate from any EU member nation: How is that fair for our school leavers & how does it instil the sensation of being wanted by the rest of us in this island nation?

Little wonder that UK youth can’t be bothered to vote

Yes it’s odd that one, how eu rules have stopped bosses getting rid of people just so they can be replaced by cheaper workers, anyone would think they were working for us.
Who in their right mind would vote for that?