A couple of weeks ago I was joining the M40 at junction 15 from the A46 south of Coventry. As I approached the junction, the car in front of me entered the roundabout and almost stopped as if they were unsure of where they needed to go. As a result, I slowed down too, having just crossed the white line at the lights as they turned to amber. Due to the car in front blocking my progress on to the roundabout, I was flashed by the Red Light Camera as I moved through the junction.
I’ve recieved the NIP from Warwickshire Police today which is requesting the drivers details and states that the lights were red for 1.1 second when the picture was taken.
I haven’t see any photographic evidence yet, so I don’t know whether the car in front that slowed to a crawl can be seen, but I’m wondering what chance I stand in contesting this charge on two grounds; firstly, that once I passed the line and the lights changed to amber my progress was haulted by another vehicle and secondly, the fact that my 45ft trailer is several car lengths long and is therefore takes longer to clear the traffic light line than a car.
Has anyone else been in a similar situation and had success contesting their charge?
I was thinking about whether to just take the points and £60 fine, but I feel that’s just rolling over and getting poked. I know the camera is there because I use that junction often, and have never been tempted to push on through changing lights. I’m thinking that I’d rather loose a days work and travel up to Rugby Magistrates Court to defend this, because I know it wasn’t just a case of trying my luck with the lights.
Personally I would firstly write to Warwickshire police and explain the situation. At present you only have a NIP, and if you outline the facts then maybe they will not proceed with a prosecution.
Smart Mart:
Personally I would firstly write to Warwickshire police and explain the situation. At present you only have a NIP, and if you outline the facts then maybe they will not proceed with a prosecution.
I have a statement already prepared. I was going to send it off with the NIP, but it clearly states that correspondance will not be entered in to. All they want at the moment is for me to sign the form stating that I was the driver. I was driving for the Royal Mail and they’ve sent my details back to Warwickshire Police.
It also seems that the only way I can defend my self is with a day in court, or by providing a statement of mitigation to be read out in court on my behalf…
Smart Mart:
Personally I would firstly write to Warwickshire police and explain the situation. At present you only have a NIP, and if you outline the facts then maybe they will not proceed with a prosecution.
I’ll echo the above and add that if you can get an ariel view of that place and using a paint programme on your PC, put your truck and car on the pic to help explain it, then that may help.
I know that junction very well and I have invisaged in my mind how this happened and from the way you describe it, it is not your fault.
It would be deemed ‘reasonable’ that the car was not blocked from proceeding and should have no reason for doing what it did.
You could in no way have predicted the action of the car but you were keeping a safe distance as proved by the fact that you did not collide with it.
The unusual action taken by the car driver put your vehicle in a position where you had legally and safely crossed the stop line but were now in a position to block the flow of traffic from your right.
As the stop line had been crossed you had the right to treat it as a give way and to proceed if safe to do so, which it was.
ROG:
You could in no way have predicted the action of the car but you were keeping a safe distance as proved by the fact that you did not collide with it.
The unusual action taken by the car driver put your vehicle in a position where you had legally and safely crossed the stop line but were now in a position to block the flow of traffic from your right.
As the stop line had been crossed you had the right to treat it as a give way and to proceed if safe to do so, which it was.
That’s right ROG… I really do feel that if a Traffic Officer was set at the side of the road and witnessed it, he’d have understood the situation I was in and see that I hadn’t intentionally committed the offence.
I got 3 points for this offence for something similar, a car decided at the last second he was turning left at the lights, so like yourself I was stuck over the line with no option but to keep going.
I sent a letter to the court explaining 40 tonne vehicle, 18 metres long, late manouevere by the car etc but to no avail…still got the points and the fine.
ROG:
…if you can get an ariel view of that place and using a paint programme on your PC, put your truck and car on the pic to help explain it, then that may help.
I’ve done an arial view of the junction. If I’d stayed still and not moved off once the other car had cleared, I’d have been done for sitting in a box junction… not much choice really…
ROG:
…if you can get an ariel view of that place and using a paint programme on your PC, put your truck and car on the pic to help explain it, then that may help.
I’ve done an arial view of the junction. If I’d stayed still and not moved off once the other car had cleared, I’d have been done for sitting in a box junction… not much choice really…
I hate that junction, especially when i’m waiting at the other junction coming out of warick in the pic which does’nt have traffic lights, awful in an HGV. Seen many a car flashed by that camera.
Good pic but remind the numpties that look at it that the other traffic in the pic is not the same as it was when you were there - I know, but I can imagine it happening
Also explain that you dare not drive around the car as it was unpredictable and could have started to go in any direction at any time.
i sent a statement along to warwickshire safety team and told them my throttle had stuck along with a breakdown report and had the charge dropped so if you got a good reason they will take notice
fez:
i sent a statement along to warwickshire safety team and told them my throttle had stuck along with a breakdown report and had the charge dropped so if you got a good reason they will take notice
My advice to you would be to sign the form admitting you where the driver, as you have to. Then explain to them what happened and add a request for a copy of the picture to see if it shows what you say. If the pic looks good in your favour they may drop it or they could go to court and you will have a reasonable chance of defending yourself. If the pics shows no such thing ,as in you can’t see no car etc., you can maybe plead guilty to accept the fixed penalty wich they should do .
And yes i have got myself of a fixed Gatso camera speeding charge , in Lincoln of all places
Looking at that picture I can see another reason why they may press ahead with the prosecution, it is a Yellow Box Junction and the Highway Code says this:
Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
In the scenario you describe it looks like you entered the box whilst your exit was not clear, not a good idea to send that aerial pic as its all the evidence they need to prosecute.
From what I can gather, the exit was clear for the car in front of the HGV, and it was as a result of the car breaking the law, that the HGV had to stop.
I know you in a yellow box junction but if the car in front stopped just check to see if the road is a clearway. If it is that means no stopping so you have a perfectly reasonable defence. One of my trucks once collided with a car in the same scenario when I asked the attending officer the status of the road he quickly backed down from wanting to charge my driver.
Think you will find that the position of the camera will NOT show the car in front of you due to the slight bend. I use that route most nights you could do as said above but I wouldn’t pin any hopes on getting out of it but in saying that the camera takes 2 pics and this would determin your speed at the point of the time of the incident that could be in your defence and also the use of your tacho showing that you had to stop sudenly due to the car
not saying your one of the boys that speed on the A46 mind but if you were or have been traveling faster than 50mph on the Dual carageways they may take the view that you did run the light
Why not explain your problem to www.lawanswers.co.uk. They will give you an honest appraisal of your situation free of charge. If you decide to fight it they will represent you for a fixed fee.
I am using them at the moment to fight an unjust speeding allegation.
Martin:
Looking at that picture I can see another reason why they may press ahead with the prosecution, it is a Yellow Box Junction and the Highway Code says this:
Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
In the scenario you describe it looks like you entered the box whilst your exit was not clear, not a good idea to send that aerial pic as its all the evidence they need to prosecute.
In the senario given, it would be ‘reasonable’ to say that the box junction was ‘clear to proceed’ and it was only the totally inapropriate action of the car that caused a problem.
If the rule was taken literally then only one vehicle at at time could ever enter a box junction just in case the vehicle in front stopped
Good forward planning would determine whether there was room for the vehicles in front and yourself to clear the box junction and in this case - there was.
As for entering the box junction… the junction was empty. The only two vehicles were the car ahead of me that stopped and myself. I know the pic shows other vehicles, but it’s just to show the lay-out of the junction.
The speed should show up as minimal, because I had actually stopped behind the other vehicle before the camera flashed.
Then there’s the point about anticipating other road users actions… Can anyone honestly say that they’d expect the vehicle in front to stop in a box junction on an empty roundabout with a green traffic light??
As I work for the Royal Mail and have bags of time for my run, I put the speed limiter on to 80kph along the A46 until I get to the M40.
I haven’t seen the photographic evidence yet, but suspect the car ahead won’t be shown in the picture, and I’ve been advised in the NIP that correspondence won’t be entered in to at this stage, so I’ll have to wait and see what comes next.
I’ll have a look at them law sites too… cheers all.
