I had a wee job recently moving one of car transporters similar to these, empty:
and I started to wonder, if I had to drive it fully loaded, how this car on the back with front wheels on this buttefly shaped thing that I am not sure how it is called in English is considered?
Do I need a C+E to drive this or can I just drive it on C, as it’s still a rigid lorry and the car is just towed? Or is the car considered as a trailer?? Or some kind of oversize load? Are there lower speed limits for this kind of thing?
flat to the mat:
LOL , so are you saying you moved it anyway without clarifying legalities ? I thought this country was where the cowboys lived ■■
As you can see from the post above yours, I would require CE only when the spec lift is loaded. Without the car, the spec lift is tucked under the back of the truck and it makes it a perfectly normal rigid. And I can drive any rigid no matter if has some towing coupling system - eigher a towing bar, fifth wheel or spec lift - fitted or not, as long, as I am not towing anything I shouldn’t (I can tow light trailers no problem).
Of course I askedabout it of couriosity, but the guy in charge was unable to give me the answer, as he said that he never needed that info as all drivers in their place are class one anyway. So when I recalled that conversation, I decided to ask here.
So sorry to disapoint you, you will have to find another chance to ridicule me.
dar1976:
The ‘butterfly thing’ is called a spectacle lift and often shortened to a spec lift.
Yes you require CE to drive it when the spec lift is loaded
Surely putting a car on that spec lift makes driving it illegal? (in UK)
As the trailer would be over 750kg and unbraked. The only way it could be legal is for recovery?
Clunk:
Surely putting a car on that spec lift makes driving it illegal? (in UK)
As the trailer would be over 750kg and unbraked. The only way it could be legal is for recovery?
Clunk:
Surely putting a car on that spec lift makes driving it illegal? (in UK)
As the trailer would be over 750kg and unbraked. The only way it could be legal is for recovery?
But is it actually a trailer ■■?
Seeing as you need an ‘E’ on your licence to pull it, I’d say it’s definitely classed as a trailer.
You do seem to see this kind of rig being used quite a lot, and as the “trailer” has no effective brakes I can’t see how it can technically be legal. However, as it seems to happen so much I can only assume that it is one of those areas where the authorities turn a blind eye. After all, as long as the whole rig including trailed car isn’t over the plated weight of the rigid (probably 26tons in this example) then the brakes on the rigid itself should be up to the job.
It is a trailer.
There is an exemption to the braking regs for recovery. This exemption was stretched to cover salvage/scrap wagons too.
I don’t know what exemption applies to transporters delivering new cars. I can’t think of one.
I’m just wondering what part of the configuration is the trailer? As I see it only the rear axle of the car is the trailer. The front one is carried on the truck
The car only looks to weigh a ton or so and would have a gross weight of about 1400kgs. The rear axle would have less than 750kgs capacity.
If I’m right then not only could it be done legally without brakes but could be done on a ridgid licence
You see a lot of smart cars pulled behind campers as they only weigh around 600kgs but they still fall outside the law as the have a maximum authorised mass of about 850kgs.
marlow:
I’m just wondering what part of the configuration is the trailer? As I see it only the rear axle of the car is the trailer. The front one is carried on the truck
The car only looks to weigh a ton or so and would have a gross weight of about 1400kgs. The rear axle would have less than 750kgs capacity.
If I’m right then not only could it be done legally without brakes but could be done on a ridgid licence
You see a lot of smart cars pulled behind campers as they only weigh around 600kgs but they still fall outside the law as the have a maximum authorised mass of about 850kgs.
The law (RTA) defines anything that is being towed as a ‘vehicle’ (not motor vehicle so do not confuse the two) and then goes on to state the requirements for vehicles being towed
The law aslo defines a motor vehicle and what the requie=rements for that are
In the case of the picture shown in the OP both definitions come into play because the ‘motor vehicle’ is ON the public highway and is a ‘vehicle’ being towed
This means that all the laws in regards to trailers and motor vehicles must be complied with - this is also why many campervans now put small cars onto proper trailers when towing them so that the motor vehicle now becomes the ‘load’ on the ‘vehicle’ (trailer) being towed
It is the maximum possible MASS/GVW/MAM which determines the rules when towing and not the actual weights
I don’t dispute that Rog. I think you missed the point I was trying to make.
Yesterday I loaded waste cans in Manchester and grossed at 43’800kgs. I reversed the trailer off the weighbridge and weighed the unit at 22’300kgs so the trailer in this case weighed 21’500kgs and yet the load weighed 29 ton
My point is that the rigid is carrying part of the load and the trailer i.e if pulled over an axel weigh bridge would weigh <750kgs.
If I follow your logic then my trailer on the wagon would be overweight.
Just a theory but remember it all sounds different in court
marlow:
I don’t dispute that Rog. I think you missed the point I was trying to make.
Yesterday I loaded waste cans in Manchester and grossed at 43’800kgs. I reversed the trailer off the weighbridge and weighed the unit at 22’300kgs so the trailer in this case weighed 21’500kgs and yet the load weighed 29 ton
My point is that the rigid is carrying part of the load and the trailer i.e if pulled over an axel weigh bridge would weigh <750kgs.
If I follow your logic then my trailer on the wagon would be overweight.
Just a theory but remember it all sounds different in court
I agree, that’s my take on it, provided the car axle on the ground is <750kgs I think you’re ok on a c licence. To treat the car as a trailer it would have to have four wheels on the ground and towed with an A-frame. Those motorhomes that are now using a trailer to pull their car were never using a spec lift to start with they were using an A-frame.
Pretty sure I can recall a case where an over zealous traffic copper tried to do someone for exactly this and it was thrown out of court. If current VOSA thinking is this isn’t legal on a c licence then you’re asking for trouble but I still think a decent lawyer ought to be able to get you off in court as they’re interpreting it wrongly.
As you say, on a spec lift it’s like a trailer being on a fifth wheel coupling be that one of those campers on a pick-up or a full blown 44t artic.
Own Account Driver:
I agree, that’s my take on it, provided the car axle on the ground is <750kgs I think you’re ok on a c licence.
Then it will be illegal because it is what is being towed by the vehicle which matters and not what the weight on the ground is
The load imposed on the ground by the rear axle of a car is all that’s being towed - that’s all that’s ever being towed unless you’re towing a hot air balloon.
Own Account Driver:
I agree, that’s my take on it, provided the car axle on the ground is <750kgs I think you’re ok on a c licence.
Then it will be illegal because it is what is being towed by the vehicle which matters and not what the weight on the ground is
The load imposed on the ground by the rear axle of a car is all that’s being towed - that’s all that’s ever being towed unless you’re towing a hot air balloon.
If that is how you wish to look at it then fine but that is not the legal way
I encouraged him , sorry guys 
