My mate & myself have axle weight meters installed in our vehicles (the’re both Merc’s).
My mate parked one night at a services by Reims (Reim-champagne-nord). He had 22800kg loaded. The next day he had 23500kg on board, so he stopped at next services only to discover 8 people in his trailer.
The stupid thing is he only drives Belgium to France & back…
Geoffo:
The stupid thing is he only drives Belgium to France & back…
They don’t always get it quite right. 10 or so years ago I recall reading a news report of the plight of some poor illegal immigrants who hid on a trailer in Belgium only for that trailer to be put on a freight only ro/ro in Gent that ended up in Hamina in Finland. They were discovered by the ships crew about a day in to the 3 day voyage and when landed in Finland were given the choice of applying for asylum there or being deported back to their country of origin. They were most aggrieved at not being sent back to Belgium so they could get to the UK.
robinhood_1984:
Geoffo:
The stupid thing is he only drives Belgium to France & back…They don’t always get it quite right. 10 or so years ago I recall reading a news report of the plight of some poor illegal immigrants who hid on a trailer in Belgium only for that trailer to be put on a freight only ro/ro in Gent that ended up in Hamina in Finland. They were discovered by the ships crew about a day in to the 3 day voyage and when landed in Finland were given the choice of applying for asylum there or being deported back to their country of origin. They were most aggrieved at not being sent back to Belgium so they could get to the UK.
Personally I’d rather stay in Finland, but as many people say, It’s easier to get government handouts in the UK than any other European country…
Geoffo:
Personally I’d rather stay in Finland, but as many people say, It’s easier to get government handouts in the UK than any other European country…
As we all know, it has absolutely nothing to do with reaching a “safe” country but is entirely economic and/or social. In Britain they can blend in to huge communities of their own people and if needs be work illegally within them, not so easy in Finland.
robinhood_1984:
Geoffo:
Personally I’d rather stay in Finland, but as many people say, It’s easier to get government handouts in the UK than any other European country…As we all know, it has absolutely nothing to do with reaching a “safe” country but is entirely economic and/or social. In Britain they can blend in to huge communities of their own people and if needs be work illegally within them, not so easy in Finland.
Very true…
The only way we would ‘know’ the gross of our trucks immediately after loading, is if there is an accurate weigh bridge near to where we loaded, and an equally accurate weigh bridge in the port.
We would know roughly how much fuel we had on board when we loaded. We know how much fuel we’ve filled up with, so that weight can be accounted for quite easily.
The problem would be the accuracy of the two bridges. No two bridges will give exactly the same weight. 80 - 100 kg is small change with a 25,000kg load
It would also be pointless having everyone going over an open weigh bridge. There would be a huge queue and a long line of easy marks.
The weights do have to be exact, how else will you know they are wrong? It’s very rare for two matching loads to weigh exactly the same. Even if it’s a load of, for example. exactly the same car parts, the stillages they are carried in can come from different manufacturers, working to their own design. Some will be flimsy and light, some will be more substantial. All will have the same outer dimensions and will carry the same number of items with the required space between them.
It’s extremely common to fill up on the French side. In fact it’s only in an emergency that we don’t fill up in Europe before catching a ferry. I do around 3,000 km a week and burn in the region on 1,000 litres of diesel, there’s an enormous saving in tax on that amount of fuel every week.
CMR’s are always paper. In Europe, at a routine stop, the first two things asked for are CMR and passport. Electronic CMRs can’t be produced at a roadside check.
I wouldn’t object to giving certain details to UKBA, in Europe, they simply demand your CMRs.
Load weight accuracy depends on the customer. Some places are extremely accurate, some places it’s just a guess.
I’ve gone through the checks by the French at Calais, heart beat monitor and CO2 check and been given the all clear, but on doing a Mk1 eyeball check found stowaways in my trailer. That was without moving from the CO2 check area. It isn’t trustworthy.
Simon, Geoffo and others,
Again, many thanks for the real-world feedback, it really helps.
I guess on-board weighing systems would be a good solution to alert drivers to unexplained GVW increases but my guess is they aren’t cheap as retro-fit. The lack of - and significant cost of - weighbridges is an issue and I have no desire to increase the load (sorry, pun intended) on drivers: the road freight world seems to be over-regulated and problematic enough as it is. I am not sure the weights have to be exact. We can build in tolerances and use a mixture of one-off declarations and approximate payload weight, making assumptions about fuel levels etc. The important thing is an unexplained discrepancy between actual GVW and what you thought it should be. The lack of a system for electronic CMRs is a disadvantage but I am sure we can find a way round that.
We put the bid in next week and, if selected, would run some trials between April and July at Calais. We might even ask for some volunteers to try some stuff out. The one thing we cannot do is let this problem escalate.
Chris
Sounds to me as though you are just trying to make money out of the situation we find ourselves in.
It doesn’t matter what equipment you have, if the operators don’t use it properly it will make no difference (heartbeat at Calais is a joke).
The only solution to this is a political one and that simply won’t happen despite all the sound bites they keep trotting out.
GBPub,
You’re right about the politics and right again about the less than perfect performance of the detection equipment. Money is not my motivation.
Chris
This week got off Portsmouth Caen boat at 21.30 local French time delivering into France Friday a.m, settled down for the night on the port 01.00 was woken by the Gendarmes open your back doors please 2 immigrants had been seen getting in both arrested!
GBPub:
Sounds to me as though you are just trying to make money out of the situation we find ourselves in.
Why just trying to make money?
You could accuse all those who develop security products of that.
He’s seen a problem, he thinks he has a system that might help solve that problem,
and he has to invest time and money into it, that’s only worthwhile if there’s likely to be some return on his investment, an OBE and the adulation of the users of Trucknet users doesn’t pay the bills.
muckles:
GBPub:
Sounds to me as though you are just trying to make money out of the situation we find ourselves in.Why just trying to make money?
You could accuse all those who develop security products of that.He’s seen a problem, he thinks he has a system that might help solve that problem,
and he has to invest time and money into it, that’s only worthwhile if there’s likely to be some return on his investment, an OBE and the adulation of the users of Trucknet users doesn’t pay the bills.
he worked for ukba, we paid his wages, he couldn’t solve the problem when he was getting paid to do so, he now thinks there may be a problem that he can make money from, you couldn’t make it up 
In the ideal world , ukba would stop and thoroughly search every lorry entering the country . Could you imagine the ques to get into your various ports etc .and the uproar. But then in an ideal world the young fellas from the third world wouldn’t be kicking around the channel ports . Whilst I may agree that certain aspects of the ukba isn’t fit for purpose , the man on the front line is doing what they can , no doubt governed by layer upon layer of budget restraints and red tape … Note . They do a lot better job than our French friends . There is a huge problem here ,that will never get solved in my life time , if chris comes up with an idea that helps to cut the illegal entry’s , who cares if he makes money out of it … ’ Gbpub '. Do you have any ideas to contribute , how would you sort the problem ?
muckles:
GBPub:
Sounds to me as though you are just trying to make money out of the situation we find ourselves in.Why just trying to make money?
You could accuse all those who develop security products of that.He’s seen a problem, he thinks he has a system that might help solve that problem,
and he has to invest time and money into it, that’s only worthwhile if there’s likely to be some return on his investment, an OBE and the adulation of the users of Trucknet users doesn’t pay the bills.
It would appear that he isn’t putting his own money in as he stated he has applied for Home Office funding for this money making project. Which by the sound of it is doomed to failure if he is basing it on a set of scales to detect variations in weight, especially considering most won’t have an accurate weight to begin with.
We all know how ex civil servants exploit money making advantages after retirement, having already been paid to do the job in question.
richie22:
’ Gbpub '. Do you have any ideas to contribute , how would you sort the problem ?
As I said earlier, the only true way of stopping this is a political one and our politicians just give lip service to it as it is in there interest to have a constant supply of cheap labour entering the country.
However, many vehicles simply don’t have any suitable security to prevent illegals getting inside, that along with drivers stopping in unsuitable areas doesn’t help matters. We as a company don’t operate any curtain sided vehicles therefore it is easier for us to prevent access, that however isn’t possible for everyone.
GBPub,
Thanks, I like a good challenge.
Chris
A bit late, but just picked up on this thread.
Weight based checks simply won’t work. We have been operating groupage trailers in France for 30 years and have only ever had 1 regular collection point with a weighbridge. Is it accurate to 100kgs at 40 tonnes? Doubtful. Most weights provided on CMR’s are a pure guess, particularly where the product’s weight has no relevance to its value eg mouldings, machinery, packaging.
How much water does a tilt roof hold after it rains? A couple of hundred kilos?
And although the unladen weight of the outfit may be accurate, one driver carries next to nothing in the way of provisions and personal effects while the next man fills the cab with enough for a month.
So, start with an inaccurate tare weight, add 5 consignment’s guesstimated weights and a shower of rain and what you are left with will take twice as long to interpret as it would to open the doors, climb in and have a look, still the most effective way of checking IMO.
Misterbreeze, All
Many thanks for the post, these things are extra factors to put into the mix: I would never have thought of rainwater.
The aim of the project is to try some new things and shake out the useless ones. We know there is a wide margin of weights in commercial traffic and we appreciate the companies you deal with have no real interest in accurate documentation. Nevertheless, there might be an underlying pattern that we can exploit in order to determine which trucks to search manually - still, as you say, the most effective way to deal with the problem.
Chris
Build a voluntary - chargable pre-check station 500 - 1000m before border.
Make it in a way of single lane corridor with fences on both sides so there is no access.
At the entrance install self service pay machine.
After that install heart monitor check.
After that install that other thing - CO2 whatever breathing check station.
After that place one guy with dog for sniffing check.
Offer drivers 2 options:
Don’t use facility - do as now everyone does and in case of fail pay big fines.
Voluntary go through checks lane pay 10 Eur per each check and drive through devices.
In case if devices find something - driver is free from any fines or convictions because he choose to go through lines and cooperated and shoved goodvill etc…
If devices don’t find anything, but at crossing something was found driver gets no fine or fixed 60gbp fine because he went for checks voluntary didn’t hide anything and your machines proved to fail.
Like in Airport with chargable extras and speed lines.
Like with Toll roads and chargable services to save time.
kyk
This idea has been around since 1999-2000 when I was last involved in this issue. It’s a good idea but requires an investor and the willingness of drivers to use the service regularly. The idea of guaranteed relief from UK civil penalties is also a good one - if you can get Border Force to act a little more flexibly. Clearly the clandestine problem is one which can only be solved by all those actually involved acting in partnership - politicians don’t do tactical solutions, if they do anything at all.
Chris
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public%E2% … artnership
If Toll roads can be built by millions per miles and money can get back by paying 30 Eur or so Toll charges then 100m long check station with equipment can also be built and earned back and provide profit.
Make public poll in this forum or elsewhere on free poll sites ask truckers to vote - see how many % say they would use such service calculate coasts - offer to some businessmans - investors etc and do the numbers and done.
If such service will give Fast line kinda advantages companies will pay for speedy cross channel trips not the drivers most likely