I’m a former Border Force employee, now retired but still keen on solving problems. Together with some colleagues I am hoping to install some kit in the search area at Calais to detect unwelcome presence on, in or under freight vehicles. However, I need a bit of help with some background - having never driven anything over 7.5t myself - and never professionally. The Truck Net UK forum manager having approved this, I’d be grateful for answers to the following:
Q1 Are CMRs delivered electronically these days are are they still mostly paper copies?
Q2 Would you object to giving certain details from the CMR to the UK Border Force - eg just the vehicle registration number, the load description and the load weight?
Q3 How accurate are CMR load details, in the main?
Q4 Does the unladen weight of your truck vary from day to day - apart from fuel, Adblue, pallets, onboard forklift etc?
Q5 If the facility existed to report clandestines getting into trucks around you (SMS, mobile, CB radio), would you use it?
Q6 Any other ideas to nail this problem?
Many thanks.
Chris Hurrey
Welcome chris , based on my own experience , cmr 's are still all paper . I think sometimes it could help to of forwarded details of what you have on to the relative agency’s . In the past I’ve loaded frozen products and the cmr will simply say 26 pallets of frozen product on . Then you will have a number of other delivery notes more often than not in some foreign language detailing exactly what there is . I ve found at times I ain’t got a clue really , my honest answer ( que , ‘we’ll you should know’ from the whiter than whiter brigade ’ … I know ) ref . Un laden weight , I keep the same combination permanently , so it doesn’t vary that much bar a little allowance for fuel . And I can’t shout strongly enough that there should be better systems in place to report clandestines , granted you can call the police in calais , not from my own experience , I’ve been told this can lead to a frustrating wait , that’s if they turn up at all . Also questions need to be asked of the French security service at calais . I think it ain’t fit for purpose ,
I pull a fridge with no pallet lockers , so quite often I get a cautionary look under Neath and a thumbs up to crack on . How many times I’ve sat in the lanes for the dog to find the hopeful car wash attendants , whilst I agree some will always get thru , the numbers that seem to get discovered on quayside suggest a serious break down in the system .
Hi, im sure you will get a good response from the members on here, lets hope you have a thick skin though because a lot of drivers and their companies which in some cases are both one and the same are getting royally shafted financially through what appears to be (despite the multi millions and millions of tax payers money spent on gadgets and machines at the ports) the incompetence or indifference of your colleagues!!! 
Just a quick question that intrigues me. If you are now retired from the Border Force, how do you intend to get to go to France and work in the port installing “kit” in the search area? 
As this is the beginning of the week, many drivers will still be away around Europe so give it time. 
Anyway… welcome to the forum!! 
bullitt and richie22,
Many thanks for the welcome to the forum - and I know what I’m letting myself in for. I once attended an RHA meeting on the clandestine problem in Peterborough about 15 years ago as the ‘HO rep’ and I stood quietly and timidly at the back while a lot of angry hauliers let rip. I do understand the plight of owner-drivers, having seen the distress the penalties cause. I am applying for some Home Office R&D funding for the project, hence I hope to be able to engage with my old colleagues at Calais. I was always at airports during my career - but I can’t resist a challenge.
I should explain a little more - but don’t red arrow me until you’ve thought it over. We have tried every technology you can think of to ‘see’ clandestines. What I was wondering was whether we could detect an unexplained increase in GVW because of the presence of unwelcome riders on, in or under the combination (60kg plus each). We factor in ULW, fuel, drivers, tools and pallets etc and the payload - and if all that is less than the actual GVW measured just before embarkation we know we have a problem. This will require some electronic delivery of data by the haulier so we’re thinking of, for example, a smartphone app and electronic delivery of the CMR etc. There will be some other intelligence and profiling as well. I note from the video sequences from cab cams that it might be possible for drivers seeing clandestines get into trailers in front of them to call the Border Force (or text or call over CB/PMR) with the truck’s details to allow the truck in question to be selected for search.
This is far from an easy problem, I know. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Although clearly your heart is in the right place… There is NO easy answer to this problem al the while these people want to get to the UK…and Even…if dispersed by the French… they will still do all in their power to get here.
The sad thing is that respective Governments on both sides of the Channel simply don’t seem to care…its a problem that’s almost acceptable at this time.
And…The Cross Channel drivers are at the very sharp end of what can be a nasty situation. These people have different morals and will fight their way in…and out.
Then companies no matter how hard they try to put systems in place…Can still be fined serious amounts of money for simply plying their trade as Cross Channel Transporters…if Illegals are found on …or in their trailers.
We as a country need stricter Border controls…and not to encourage people to claim asylum and make it so easy to stay here …or simply disappear into the community.
No one knows how many are here…And I mean No one.
I wish you well… and anything that protects the Transporter… AND the driver is welcomed but not at the cost of the driver being inundated with more checks and paperwork. These men earn average wages and salary…They are NOT paid to take these risks.
Stobart collect aluminium for car bodies from a company based in Germany & Switzerland… the company in question will only issue a Frachtbrief or ‘freight note’ and do not issue a CMR, you have to fill a CMR out yourself and even then some of the workers will not sign it for you. Most of the collections done will be moved on one trailer from collection to destination but will be swapped to different trucks (at least 2). Sometimes picking up a trailer you will still have to fill a CMR out as the previous driver hasn’t. If you are on the 3rd leg of the journey it is very rare that the 2nd driver will have filled in the ‘successive transport’ field with his registration etc. In fact it’s doubtful if the CMR is ever filled in correctly in the first place ! This also goes for vice versa journey’s from the UK’s company to Germany or Switzerland.
A lot of UK company’s wouldn’t know what a CMR was if it hit them in the face ! Just yesterday I was in the reception of a refrigerated distribution company and there was a guy collecting a load for Sweden. He was filling in his own CMR and had to argue the toss to get the company’s address stamp to stamp his own CMR !
As for electronic CMR, I’ve never come across one !
Can I just add that although us British drivers are aware of what we get fined if a Clandestine onboard upon arriving in the UK, our foreign ‘colleagues’ are not. In fact, a lot of the Eastern Europeans haven’t a clue why they go through the checks to get into Britain that Border Force do… It’s a while since I’ve used the boat but I have used the train a lot and there isn’t one sign telling you what the cost of taking an immigrant into Britain. I think there is a reason for this and I think we all know what it is !
Further to Kerbdog…The CMR must be the most innacurate piece of paper ever…and yet various countries insist on it… and of course is the recognised Insurance based document. The number of times I have told drivers to make out their own… and in fairness if the CORRECT weight was entered… There could be all sorts of problems.
Neville 1 and Kerbdog,
Again, many thanks for your responses - this is just what I need to know. If CMRs are unreliable, then I need to think of something else. It’s true, the UK is a magnet for a number of reasons but those are political issues and not within my power to change - though there is of course an election coming. The penalties regime could be used more effectively and fairly but could drivers / hauliers have more of an active part to play?
Chris
Chris, Its clear that any political party will leave things as they are…with the odd attempt to fine tune
the system. Unless of course UKIP get into power.
The country is actually run by the civil servants…not the nose in the trough Ministers.
Drivers are already undervalued…and overused by their Bosses… so be careful not to turn an already diminishing group of experienced men into lambs to the slaughter.
Also…All the while Mr & Mrs Average average have Supermarkets and shops full off goods they want… They simply Do Not Care…how they get there…Or what the drivers and Haulage companies have to go through to get it there.
You face an uphill struggle… but again… “Good luck”
Hi Chris, while I appreciate your attempt to look at the problem I don’t think checking weight will help. 60kg is nothing. On a loaded or even empty truck, a truck with long range fuel tanks could be carrying around 1000kg of diesel, wouldn’t take much to burn off 60kg of that.
The checking systems that are in place need to be carried out all the time, I used Calais on a Saturday before Christmas, they only had one heartbeat monitor shed open and no trucks were stopped they were just waving them through and none of the border agency sheds were open. Basically the whole security was down to the drivers.
They need to find a way of checking more vehicles, without queues forming outside of the port or euro tunnel terminal. But proper checks will cost money and take space, but it must be done.
I still see trucks mostly East European that don’t seem to be secured, that needs to change.
I think most of these immigrants are being duped into coming to the UK by those who want to exploit them, get the traffickers and you’ll probably stop far more people coming here than catching a few immigrants.
I think all governments will pay lip service to the problem while it mostly affects truck drivers, especially as most aren’t UK citizens. Nothing will change until it badly affects the nice middle class, daily mail reading, families coming back from their skiing trip or euro Disney.
Could it not be possible for UKBA staff at Calais to merely open the back doors on every vehicle and shout loudly “welcome to Croydon”? Voila, 20 illegals will jump out thinking they’ve reached Nirvana.
the maoster:
Could it not be possible for UKBA staff at Calais to merely open the back doors on every vehicle and shout loudly “welcome to Croydon”? Voila, 20 illegals will jump out thinking they’ve reached Nirvana.
+1…best suggestion sofar…weight has no bearing as has nothing else…am and fm cb with a decent listening station to list registration numbers would help and catch plenty assuming someone could be speaking English on each side…but all that happens is their put out the docks to try again…so whats the point.?
soft touch Britain is nirvana for the illegals,if france dosent want them,they should police their own entry point borders,and sling them back into spain etc.if they don’t jail/deport them,theres no deterrent.if you cant influence politicians etc,then theres just absolutely no point in spotting more and more,as they just get let out to try again.the only thng to stop uk drivers getting fined is to inspect every single uk truck. once the penny drops with the Taliban,they wouldn’t hide in uk reg trucks. if someone actually took the government to court for non payment of fines,it would cost them a fortune though no doubt they would win the case,but who has the funding to do that…?..nobody,hence the fines go unchallenged,similar to the penalties for bringing in booze and ■■■■…nobody can afford to take the crown to court,hence the laws remain unchallenged.
muckles:
They need to find a way of checking more vehicles, without queues forming outside of the port or euro tunnel terminal. But proper checks will cost money and take space, but it must be done.
This was always one of my biggest bug bears. I always went to whatever lengths I could to prevent illegal immigrants gaining entry to my truck, but those efforts went out of the window when UKBA had one of their regular field days in Calais and checked more trucks, thus creating a huge backlog and queue out on to the motorway before the ferry terminal, making me and hundreds of other trucks sitting ducks with the inevitable happening. It was always my opinion, and still is, that it was done deliberately and was nothing short of entrapment, making sure that there was a steady supply of immigrants to be found on trucks that otherwise would not have been there had the truck being able to enter the port before stopping.
The biggest insult in this whole sorry episode is that each time an immigrant is caught and the driver fined, that same immigrant, the one actually breaking the law in the first place is merely released nearby to try again and again, so in theory several drivers could receive a fine for the very same person, before that person succeeds in entering Britain illegally.
And even more annoying is where or what does all this money raised from fines go get spent on,? making it harder for them to enter the uk? repatriation 1st class in the back of a container as it was good enough for them to get to calais or here why not to take them back home?
No of course it doesn’t, the money get’s swallowed up on the fat cat salaries and expenses paid to those greedy useless parasites at the top called government, regardless of which polictical party they represent even the guy with the dodgy eye would have his snout in the trough on the gravy train if he got the chance
Thanks guys, your responses are most useful.
I think the analytical system I have in mind can handle the fuel use issue - but (forgive me for not knowing this) how do drivers know how much fuel they have - especially if the fuel load is spread over a number of tanks? Also, is it common to fill up on the French side as diesel is cheaper there?
The weights do not have to be exact, we can use averages taken from statistics and calculations based on data that drivers might give to Border Force at the start of the journey. The key issue is to add NO extra burden on drivers in terms of cost, time or effort - except maybe for a one-off electronic declaration. Is that a fair deal?
Chris
Chris Hurrey:
Thanks guys, your responses are most useful.
I think the analytical system I have in mind can handle the fuel use issue - but (forgive me for not knowing this) how do drivers know how much fuel they have - especially if the fuel load is spread over a number of tanks? Also, is it common to fill up on the French side as diesel is cheaper there?
The weights do not have to be exact, we can use averages taken from statistics and calculations based on data that drivers might give to Border Force at the start of the journey. The key issue is to add NO extra burden on drivers in terms of cost, time or effort - except maybe for a one-off electronic declaration. Is that a fair deal?
Chris
You know by the fuel gauge or a long stick and mk1 eyeball, The fuel gauge only reads from one tank, but is calibrated to handle multiple tanks, there is also an option in the dashboard menu that tells you how many litres you have, but it also only works from the level in one of the tanks and assumes they’ll be x amount in the other tank.
I also reset the fuel used and trip each time I fill up, so I know roughly how much I expect to be in the tanks if the fuel gauge is faulty or it doesn’t pull fuel from both tanks.
Not sure how your system will work, but if you have a system that allows quick checking, even if it just a way of identifying trucks that need a more thorough check, avoids the delays that causes the queues and catches more illegals on trucks then I wish you the best of luck.
But the checks need to be done before he point a driver would receive a fine for illegals on their truck.
muckles - Thanks, really useful info. I know there are many factors which make up the GVW at any one time but I think we can manage those and still be alerted to the extra weight resulting from a group of clandestines. The system is designed to do exactly what you suggest: 100% scanning, selection for searching on the basis or weight, intel or reports from drivers. The penalty system is a matter for the Home Office.
Chris
Chris Hurrey:
The penalty system is a matter for the Home Office.
Its a matter for every single driver who is subjected to the disgrace that is the situation in Calais. Don’t expect any help from drivers if all your idea is going to achieve is to make it easier for your former colleagues to detect even more immigrants inside the port and thus result in even more fines for the innocent piggy in the middle, the truck drivers. Unless your idea will enable the detection and removal of the immigrants BEFORE UK passport control, you’re barking up the wrong tree here. No driver is going to lend a hand to tie his own noose for a crime he didn’t commit and a crime he isn’t responsible for.
robinhood_1984
A very fair point. The civil penalty may not an intelligent tool to combat illegal entry and the airline business makes a similar point about the penalties they incur through carrying people with false passports. My intention is to help make clandestine entry unattractive because it will not give these people what they want - their backside on a UK-bound ferry or Eurotunnel shuttle. But you have got me thinking about where in the process the detection occurs. And you’re right: ideally, penalties should only be for the negligent and the corrupt.
Many thanks.
Chris