montana man:
[However it is only possible to correct the drivers offence after you see he has made it and as we all know not every offence is immediately detectable on the tachograph.
âŚ
Youâre spot on. An easy way to tell the difference is when the driver ends up in court or the operator appears before a TC
MIKE-C I have proberly not worded it right, but i will give
it another try, IF the drivers have carried out the correct
procedure and it has not been a regular occurrance
then surely even GOD (traffic-commissioner)will
say thats ACEPTABLE;
BY THE WAY it can be substantiated that parking in
certain areas is DANGEROUS and the police know
this and can do nothing about it, and this goes for
all of europe not just the UK;
and The best laid plans of mice and men often goes astray;
if the traffic office finds grounds for a guilty conviction then
okay but please I thought we were all
-----------------------------INNOCENTuntil PROVEN GUILTY-------------------------------
innocent till proven guilty is the truest thing said on this topic!!!well done that man
brit pete:
MIKE-C I have proberly not worded it right, but i will give
it another try, IF the drivers have carried out the correct
procedure and it has not been a regular occurrance
then surely even GOD (traffic-commissioner)will
say thats ACEPTABLE;
BY THE WAY it can be substantiated that parking in
certain areas is DANGEROUS and the police know
this and can do nothing about it, and this goes for
all of europe not just the UK;and The best laid plans of mice and men often goes astray;
if the traffic office finds grounds for a guilty conviction then
okay but please I thought we were all
-----------------------------INNOCENTuntil PROVEN GUILTY-------------------------------
I agree entirely Pete. The thing that makes me laugh though, and its the same the world over and in any trade is the cop out! You can view it by looking at my sig !!
I think what I said earlier has been somewhat blown out of proportion.
I never said we encourage our drivers to go over their hours, no matter by how many minutes, but safety is a huge issue. Its not that they canât plan their journeys, or they are blissfully unaware of the rules, because the drivers here are all experienced men. The drivers who have had their knuckles rapped are the longest serving and who have been drivers for over 30 years. They are all aware of the rules and regulations, but how many drivers out there can state that when they start their journey each day that they never encounter any problems (no matter how small) which has a knock on effect for the rest of the day or even the rest of the week.
Take today for example, Im sure everyone in the UK is aware of the terrible gales. Three of the main routes out of Liverpool are at a complete standstill because of the weather. How can you plan for that? Just out of curiosity, how many UK hauliers will be effected today by the weather?
The part about drivers wanting to meet up at certain drinking holes is right, and drivers taking the mick for their own personal gain is right, but whilst there remains HGV wagons and a transport industry in this country, you are still going to get the same problems, the same drivers, on a daily basis,no matter how tight a ship you run and control
You can only deal with the driver after the infringement has occured, and deal with him accordingly, but subsequently, you, as the operator then have to face the consequences.
An example. A driver was parked up in Belgium, and a man in a car pulls alongside him. The man in the car then exposes himself and you can imagine the rest. Our driver fires his wagon up and drives down the road for 10 minutes. This driver then gets fined for interrupting his break. VOSA refused to accept his reason. How do you plan for that, or how do you reprimand a driver who has to experience something like that.
I certainly am not making excuses, and we will, as a company, stand together and appear before NWTC Mrs Bell next week and state our case, but to everyone out there who have wished us luck,(and those who havenât) thank you very much and I wish you all the very best for the future.
Jeanette Thorburn
scaniaman:
to all the âANGELSâ on here i suggest you go back to your fluffy white clouds and let the rest live in the real world.iâve never heard so many muppets and as for planning your journeys better how about if you havenât been down that road before or have all you tom tom jockeys got that built in!!! PATHETIC!!!
PricelessâŚ!!! 
I often wonder myself if some people on here could find âthe real worldâ and mark it as a POI ⌠
Then maybe they could visit it a few more times instead of gazing down on it from there pedestalsâŚ
Thank heavens the âold boysâ didnât have the attitude some of todays drivers haveâŚ
Middle East ⌠we wouldnât have made it to the East MidlandsâŚ
Not without planning there journeys correctly, allowing time at the end of the day to find proper parkingâŚ
To Montana man- thank god thereâs 2 of us who think like that I was beginning to think I was surrounded by these perfect people
what a load of bollox by you 2 above 
if your not on a road you driven before do you not think to yourself when your coming up to your last 1/2 hour driving or last 15 mins âŚ
" well i havent been on this road before so i better start thinking of somewhere to park "
or do you think to yourself⌠il worry about that when ive got 5 mins left theres bound to be somewhere then.
you both sound like a right pair of chancers.
jeanette@thorburntranspor:
An example. A driver was parked up in Belgium, and a man in a car pulls alongside him. The man in the car then exposes himself and you can imagine the rest. Our driver fires his wagon up and drives down the road for 10 minutes.
If I had moved the vehicle every time that happened in Belgium an unbroken rest would have been a rare thing. 
It happens all the time in Belgium and there is no reason to move, even if you do move it is just as likely to happen in the next parking place. You have three options when that happens and you donât need to move the vehicle for any of them.
Ignore him. He will get bored and drive off.
Shut your curtains, thereby also ignoring him. He will get bored and drive off.
Open your door and jump out in an aggressive manner, this time he wonât get bored because he wonât have time as he will be off like a rocket.
I really see no reason to move, he will be more scared of you than you could possibly be of him
jeanette@thorburntranspor:
how do you reprimand a driver who has to experience something like that.
The only way he can be sure not to experience it is not to park in Belgium. Actually that doesnât always work because it isnât unknown for it to happen while driving along the motorway.
Iâve just remembered a 4th option that also works. Point a camera at him with one hand while using the other toâŚ
⌠make a phone call to the police. (I know what you were thinking BTW) That makes them leave even quicker than option 3 does.
In 17 years of doing nothing but European driving I donât need the fingers of both hands to count the times I ended up running over my time due to unforeseen circumstances or to find a â â â â â â â â â â â â . I only ever had the trailer or load interfered with once, and I used to carry some pretty valuable and thief attractive stuff. Itâs not rocket science, just needs a little bit of common sense and a little bit of planning.
You only have to look back at previous cases over the years to see how many times the âfinding secure parkingâ thing has been tried as an excuse. It hasnât worked yet, with the response normally being if secure parking was an issue then better planning of the route and timings should have been made. Sorry to say but if that is going to be part of your defence then I think you are screwed. 
Coffeeholic:
In 17 years of doing nothing but European driving I donât need the fingers of both hands to count the times I ended up running over my time due to unforeseen circumstances or to find a â â â â â â â â â â â â . I only ever had the trailer or load interfered with once, and I used to carry some pretty valuable and thief attractive stuff. Itâs not rocket science, just needs a little bit of common sense and a little bit of planning.You only have to look back at previous cases over the years to see how many times the âfinding secure parkingâ thing has been tried as an excuse. It hasnât worked yet, with the response normally being if secure parking was an issue then better planning of the route and timings should have been made. Sorry to say but if that is going to be part of your defence then I think you are screwed.
there you go the voice of experianceâŚ
itâs not rocket science is it 
so letâs say you start thinking about it in your last half hour and nothing turns up what do you do thenâ â ? oh yeah call 118 TOM TOM
jeanette@thorburntranspor:
For JJ72Firstly, let me tell you this. After having 9 drivers gassed, one driver left by the French police to walk 2km back to his wagon in his bare feet and shorts, and one driver who has been off for over 12 months because of an attack, I will encourage every single one of my drivers to put his safety first. Its bad enough in the UK, but you literally take your life in your hands once you get into Europe, This does not make me a ârogueâ operator. It makes me a conscientious employer who actually gives a â â â â about his staff, and we are certainly not getting an unfair advantage over any other international hauliers. These drivers arent putting anybodies lives at risk by having to drive an extra 10 minutes to find secure and safe parking, they are just protecting themselves.
How do you justify to these drivers families âOh Im sorry, your husband was stabbed to death in a lay byâ because rules say they have to stop regardless.
Do you operate vehicles abroad? Have you or anybody you work with ever been attacked?
We will back any driver to the hilt who puts his safety, the safety of the vehicle and the safety of the load foremost. We are not talking hours here, but minutes and if people get their licenceâs revoked because of this, then the whole licencing system should be under inquiry for having total disregard for peoples lives.
The next TCâs job that becomes available in your area, I suggest you apply for it because you certainly tick all the correct boxes.
Jeanette Thorburn
right, firstly i wasnât in the remotest sense having a go at your company - just the â â â â kissers on here, maybe they think youâre going to PM them with job offers to drive your new R620s or whatever, should the enquiry go well next week, i donât know their motives
but as you have launched, donât start on about safe parking rules to me - iâve worked for firms whoâve used that one for longer than you (though not your dad maybe) has been in the industry, and in their cases it was to gloss over blatant disregard for drivers hours, including myself before anyone thinks iâm on a âiâm whiter-than-whiteâ tirade here, but those days have thankfully gone
as for having done owt, as well as lots of italy with high risk cargoes, we did russia and beyond with TVs, VCRs, xerox machines, gillette razors, booze, â â â â and expensive clothing back in the early 1990s when the police werenât getting paid each month, so gave even less of a toss about upholding the law, and no, in the constant (i.e back to back) trips our 15 trucks made over about 6 years we NEVER had any bother, not in Berezniki, Brussels, nor even in Biggleswade 
Lastly please donât start me again about the old gassing myth - 9, nine, NINE?
jessicas dad:
Coffeeholic:
In 17 years of doing nothing but European driving I donât need the fingers of both hands to count the times I ended up running over my time due to unforeseen circumstances or to find a â â â â â â â â â â â â . I only ever had the trailer or load interfered with once, and I used to carry some pretty valuable and thief attractive stuff. Itâs not rocket science, just needs a little bit of common sense and a little bit of planning.You only have to look back at previous cases over the years to see how many times the âfinding secure parkingâ thing has been tried as an excuse. It hasnât worked yet, with the response normally being if secure parking was an issue then better planning of the route and timings should have been made. Sorry to say but if that is going to be part of your defence then I think you are screwed.
there you go the voice of experianceâŚ
itâs not rocket science is it
WOW there J D you might get accused of ââ â â â KISSINGâ⌠
Coffeeholic:
In 17 years of doing nothing but European driving I donât need the fingers of both hands to count the times I ended up running over my time due to unforeseen circumstances or to find a â â â â â â â â â â â â . I only ever had the trailer or load interfered with once, and I used to carry some pretty valuable and thief attractive stuff. Itâs not rocket science, just needs a little bit of common sense and a little bit of planning:(
In all fairness though Neil as you have plainly said in your diaries you only had to get back to sunny Luton and so had a better range as far as parking the far side of âtroubleâ. If you were based in the Northwest you would not have that luxury.
to jj72
I to have not had any gassing or problems being attacked, but I have had more than my fair share of sleepless nights when forced to park somewhere the âclockâ dictated despite excellent knowledge and prior planningâŚ!!!
Maybe in the interests of road safety the next day I should have moved â â ?
Occasionaly I did and endorsed the card to show why without any problems in Europe but it took some lengthy arguments with a DOT and Plod when I got a tug back on âHome Soilâ to not get my â â â â in hot water.
I agree with many of your other comments to, but clearly what is required is a little more flexibility from the TC and other authorities and if is the case a little less use of any given flexibility by the drivers/operators.
I have no doubt the odd gassing takes place but I just am not so sure it is as widespread as is said. Most times I woke up with a bad head and empty wallet it certainly wasnât gasâŚ
I like others donât want a job but can sympathise with somebody in the same industry having problems. I did however recieve a PM thanking me for my âcomments and good wishesâ.
and finallyâŚ
To BRITPETE
you listed several high profile firms who get axed to "FIREWOODâ by other people. When I read your list 2 words came to mind as I am sure it did for many many of the membersâŚ
CHELTENHAM AIRWAYSâŚ
as for me anyone who knows me too jj, will know I WAS far from a saint in the âold daysâ but as you correctly say those days are goneâŚ
But back then ALL my cards LOOKED perfectâŚ
if this was about a driver occasionally running over his time, say once a month tops, by 10 or 15 minutes to ensure safe(r) parking, and the TC was going overboard and threatening someoneâs O licence for it then yes, it would be scandalous and any negative decision should be put before the Transport Tribunal at the speed of lightâŚ
but is that scenario very likely
montana man:
I did however recieve a PM thanking me for my âcomments and good wishesâ.
i received one saying something entirely different muppetts
montana man:
Coffeeholic:
In 17 years of doing nothing but European driving I donât need the fingers of both hands to count the times I ended up running over my time due to unforeseen circumstances or to find a â â â â â â â â â â â â . I only ever had the trailer or load interfered with once, and I used to carry some pretty valuable and thief attractive stuff. Itâs not rocket science, just needs a little bit of common sense and a little bit of planning:(In all fairness though Neil as you have plainly said in your diaries you only had to get back to sunny Luton and so had a better range as far as parking the far side of âtroubleâ. If you were based in the Northwest you would not have that luxury.
I donât think where you are based makes much difference to being able to find parking within your hours to be honest. I have made countless trips which started and finished much further north than Luton. It was only in the last 3 or 4 years that I rarely went north and for a while I was running out of Haydock each week.
jeanette@thorburntranspor:
This is for Johnny especially:I was never a rogue operator, although we have had over the yearâs some rogue drivers.
i beg to differ but it would be your word against mine which never gets anybody anywhere, in the nineties you were running quite a large amount of trucks, all nicely painted with plenty of toys etc. i could never keep up with them unless i had the fuse out, i ran with some of your drivers but when i stopped for my rest periods they carried on, if you take a load out of italy on a friday morning for delivery saturday afternoon in the uk it requires a double man team but your drivers managed ok on their own, as the operator taking on a load with that kind of timescale what do you think would happen?
but back then many of us were doing the same thing, trip money was a â â â â â - it made you a slave to the steering wheel.So please get your facts right before you make such comments as âloose lips, sink shipsâ.
i think the ship has already sank wally, itâs a real shame though, i know several of your drivers or perhaps ex drivers and even worked with a couple of them at other companies, i know you have been trying to keep on the right side of the law and like you say, itâs often the drivers that cannot change their ways that have let you down, whilst you have made an effort to change things for the better they have carried on with the habits of old but as the operator/licence holder somebody should have been watching for the cowboy drivers and doing something about it, itâs often been the lack of proper disciplinary procedures against the companies drivers that have brought about the o licence revocations, hayton coulthard - r f fielding - martin oliver etc.
i sincerley hope that you are allowed to continue operating trucks of your own, the image you present with your trucks is impressive on the road and gives the industry a good image in these days of plain white tractor units with vinyl letterings itâs a pleasure to see some of the special looking trucks knocking about.
i wish you the best of luck with your appeals and o licence applications but i fear you may have to walk the same road as hayton coulthard - keep the work you have and take on sub contractors to run in your colours.Wally Thorburn
once again wally - good luck - and i mean that sincerely
johnny