raymundo:
If enough drivers think they need a voice to try to improve the industry and their lot why don’t they get an already established union with some clout to fight their corner ? Just askin !
Most unions still have an important place in offering good “local” dispute help and looking after their members.
Unfortunately the fail to do anything about the National issues.
Where were they to speak up for Drivers with POA, WTD, CPC etc
As posted at 01:28 this morning and just to follow on from your point above.
tonka236:
…Why did you organise a protest of the dCPC in 2012 some three years AFTER it came into force? Numerous years after it was ever thought up off?
Oh and just how much were your dCPC training modules again?..
When your training school failed to get of the ground
Wowzers! You were asked for a more in depth answer about you. And what did you answer? A copied and pasted bunch of wishy washy nothing from a previous post.
I’m out.
To me, you come across as something akin to the really ■■■■■■ bloke in the corner of the pub. What you might be trying to say might have great merit and importance, but you seem unable to articulate it in any kind of useful way… You’re just rambling, and only every 10th word is audible…
raymundo: If enough drivers think they need a voice to try to improve the industry and their lot why don’t they get an already established union with some clout to fight their corner ? Just askin !
Good point! I feel that is exactly what Barrie is trying to do but he hasn’t got the clout YET. Established unions are not doing anything that Barrie is trying to do. Established unions in my opinion do tribunals and not a lot else.
We are talking a drivers ‘unity’ here, 2 or 3 drivers are not going to make much difference if any. 2 or 3 hundred may make a difference. 2 or 3 thousand will definitely make a difference!
Without back up and support PDU-UK will fail, with support it may succeed and most people may benefit.
As stated previously I have known Baz for a few years and he is a genuine bloke. He has done more behind the scenes than you will ever be privy to establishing contacts and meeting etc (read the website). He has done all this and more for no reward except to try and make things better for others.
Support and not ridicule is what is needed. No one else, as far as I know had tried this before but what the hell, give him a chance and if in 2 years nothing has happened - then slate him!
It’s a new venture with many failures behind. Try suggestions and opinions to HELP rather than ridicule and contempt.
Bit of advice Barrie
Forget the welcome packs, forget the £5 fee, publish a constantly updated count of membership on here.
Make it completely free to join for the first year and a reasonable fee to cover expenses for subsequent years.
Then you may start to get the number of members you are thinking of.
Otherwise it will be going nowhere.
raymundo: If enough drivers think they need a voice to try to improve the industry and their lot why don’t they get an already established union with some clout to fight their corner ? Just askin !
Good point! I feel that is exactly what Barrie is trying to do but he hasn’t got the clout YET. Established unions are not doing anything that Barrie is trying to do. Established unions in my opinion do tribunals and not a lot else.
We are talking a drivers ‘unity’ here, 2 or 3 drivers are not going to make much difference if any. 2 or 3 hundred may make a difference. 2 or 3 thousand will definitely make a difference!
Without back up and support PDU-UK will fail, with support it may succeed and most people may benefit.
As stated previously I have known Baz for a few years and he is a genuine bloke. He has done more behind the scenes than you will ever be privy to establishing contacts and meeting etc (read the website). He has done all this and more for no reward except to try and make things better for others.
Support and not ridicule is what is needed. No one else, as far as I know had tried this before but what the hell, give him a chance and if in 2 years nothing has happened - then slate him!
It’s a new venture with many failures behind. Try suggestions and opinions to HELP rather than ridicule and contempt.
He didn’t ask for suggestions and help, he asked for questions, and that is what he has got. Whether he chooses to answer all questions, or just the ones he wants to answer is up to him, as is people’s inference as to his possible effectiveness and ability.
I have neither ridiculed him, nor been contemptuous. I have not cast any aspersions on his honesty or business acumen, I have simply requested information…
I don’t come on here much anymore as there we too many annoying little things going on but heard a whisper on Facebook about a Q&A session that may actually interest me. So here I am.
So far I have gone through 4 cups of tea a packet of crisps and a mars bar just to get this far without feeling fatigued but I guess it was worth it (really )
Anyway, I digress.
I have a few questions for Mr. Tozer and I hope he can manage to find the answers somewhere amongst his notes.
The first one is a concern of mine.
Who will actually represent the drivers? Will this be your close circle of friends or will it be done through a voting process, where people can choose who represents them (obviously with a bit of research and campaigning from them). The reason I ask this is I get a say in a way a country as great as the Uk is run, I won’t be too happy if I’m just told who is fighting my corner if it comes to it. It would be like killing someone and then being told coco the clown is your defense lawyer.
The second one is the £5 non profit set up welcome package thingy ma bob.
You say there is only about 50p (ooohhh he mentioned the dreaded 50p) left from membership or the card thing or whatever you call it and this is put to expenses and you have no need for accounts or an audit trail as it is purely non profit. I am not an accountant and I don’t think im one of the most intelligent or cleverest people on here but if you are selling something (even if it is just the chance to be part of the next big truckers movement) how will you prove it is non profit without an audit trail. Can I just ring HMRC and tell them I have sold 5000 memberships at £5 a pop but its purely non profit and they will be so cool with that?
I can imagine the conversation now
Ring ring
Ring ring
“HMRC help line can I help you?”
“Hi there, I’m after some advice.”
“Sure fire away.”
“I have set up a club for truckers that is only £5 to join and for this they get a card and representation for all their gripes within the industry. So far we have 5000 members.”
“Oh I see. And do you have an accountant to look after the £25,000.00. “
“Not really, you see its not for profit.”
“Oh I see, what do they get for the £5?”
“They get a card that says they have joined the pdu-uk and a sticker and also they get the warm, fuzzy, all over feeling of being a part of a unity.”
“who paid for the cards then?”
“I did but I don’t have the receipt I paid for them 3 years ago but I can tell you now they were £24,999.99 for a job lot, I got a right deal!”
“oh that’s good then as long as you got a good deal. And are you sure there wont be any profit?”
“no there wont be. Just expenses”
“and do you promise that all your expenses will be honest and not a single penny will be used that doesn’t need to be used?”
“yup I sure do”
That’s fine then, don’t worry about accounts or receipts or anything like that. Thanks for ringing and have a lovely day”
People need answers mr tozer before they part with their money and at the moment, all I see is you avoiding serious questions that need answering.
dri-diddly-iver:
As stated previously I have known Baz for a few years and he is a genuine bloke. He has done more behind the scenes than you will ever be privy to establishing contacts and meeting etc (read the website). He has done all this and more for no reward except to try and make things better for others.
first off, i dont think anyone is ridiculing mr tozer, what he is trying to achieve is admirable, and takes a lot of balls to do.
secondly, why dont you (or he himself) tell us what he has done t these meetings then , with some form of proof (if available).
dri-diddly-iver:
I’m glad Barrie has joined because I support him and everything he pushes for. He has done this for years for no reward or benefit - except trying to benefit drivers!
Nearly missed that nugget…
That would explain his wage claim of "no more than £35000 per year.
So when
You wrote:
2 or 3 drivers are not going to make much difference if any. 2 or 3 hundred may make a difference. 2 or 3 thousand will definitely make a difference!
and
Barrie writes:
I seem to recall about 30/40 pence was left from each £5.00
That would be between £600 and £1200 that disappears.
But no accounting required right(!)
But lets not forget the £30 then £25 per annum memberships as well
wing-nut:
Bit of advice BarrieMake it completely free to join for the first year and a reasonable fee to cover expenses for subsequent years.
We all like freebies. I would like you to point out to me anywhere that was free and then a charge after 12 months to continue to receive the same!!
If Rikki posted tomorrow that you would be charged £5 to continue to use this forum would you still use it? Or would you find another freebie?
TNUK is established as a forum and a lot would pay. PDU-UK is not established yet - but may well be soon!
Yes I would pay £5 to use this forum because I know what I would be getting for my money.
With a £5 joining fee I would expect PDU-UK to get a rather low membership whereas if it was free, drivers would have nothing to lose by joining, membership would be built up to substantial numbers relatively quickly and continued paid membership in subsequent years would be based on results.
At present I see it going nowhere which is why I wouldn’t pay £5
With all due respect to Barrie and his motives, it would appear that diversity is necessary for numbers but is also the biggest problem for him. For example, take 1 driver from each job of tramping, trunking and retail deliveries. What can be changed to benefit (forget wages as that is irrelevant to this entire thread) all 3 drivers? We all know that parking facilities are a big problem for the trampers but why would the other 2 care about that?
Even being more specific ie POA. I am sitting in the transport office with another who does exactly the same job as me. I will use POA to keep my working time down but he never uses POA at all. 2 guys doing the same job with completely opposing work practices regarding POA. You come along a nd put POA on the table and somehow hope to unite me and this other guy. I will oppose it and he wont care (or perhaps will but only to annoy me ) because he doesn’t use it anyway. This is a tiny example but upscale it to potentially 1000s of drivers from all sectors and backgrounds. I think your current goals are admirable but impossible!
It seems to me that trampers face the biggest challenges so have you considered narrowing your focus to possibly that specific type of work and getting them behind you to campaign for more and better parking facilities? You may not get the desired numbers but at least they might actually agree with each other so the support for the chosen issue could logically be stronger
wing-nut:
Yes I would pay £5 to use this forum because I know what I would be getting for my money.
At present I see it going nowhere which is why I wouldn’t pay £5
I can see your logic and agree in principal. PDU-UK is a new venture and a £5 gamble (pint and half or breakfast) might be worth a punt in my opinion to give the bloke another, maybe last chance.
raymundo: If enough drivers think they need a voice to try to improve the industry and their lot why don’t they get an already established union with some clout to fight their corner ? Just askin !
Good point! I feel that is exactly what Barrie is trying to do but he hasn’t got the clout YET. Established unions are not doing anything that Barrie is trying to do. Established unions in my opinion do tribunals and not a lot else.
We are talking a drivers ‘unity’ here, 2 or 3 drivers are not going to make much difference if any. 2 or 3 hundred may make a difference. 2 or 3 thousand will definitely make a difference!
OK we have 3000 PDU members who are united but are NOT a union or Organisation as Mr Tozzer has stated so far. Where is the CLOUT? You can’t Strike as you are not a union so no voting for one.you can’t blockade legally so in reality you can’t do anything! You have NO POWER to do anything and talking around a table with tea and a digestive biscuit will get you next to nowhere, in essence it doesn’t matter how many you number as it makes no difference.
)
Thats the Party which will out of UK,isnt it?