Carryfast:
gingerfold:
It’s interesting that Pete’s experience of performance from Foden Two-stroke drivers in his neck of the woods is at odds with the experiences of former drivers I knew. Without exception they told me that hill climbing fully loaded wasn’t the strong suit of the two-stroke. One of these drivers worked for J.W. Whewell of Radcliffe, a chemicals company, and they had a couple of Foden six-wheeler rigids with Two-stroke engines. They were hellish noisy things I remember.
A 5 litre engine struggles in anything heavier than a 4 wheeler who would have thought it.It’s a bit like Bedford expecting the 6v71 to work in a 32 tonner.It’s impossible to understand the thought process of the designers and managements in the day.
The F86 and F7s worked at 32 tons and they were only 6.7 litre
The Foden 2stroke pulled as well as anything on the market at the time , no use waiting for the revs to die before a down change . Decent drivers learned to judge the change to get the next lower gear at peak revs . It wasn’t easy to adjust to as drivers at the time probably felt that they were thrashing at those revs , the same applied to the ts3 , I was often accused of that by the older drivers .
rigsby:
The Foden 2stroke pulled as well as anything on the market at the time , no use waiting for the revs to die before a down change . Decent drivers learned to judge the change to get the next lower gear at peak revs . It wasn’t easy to adjust to as drivers at the time probably felt that they were thrashing at those revs , the same applied to the ts3 , I was often accused of that by the older drivers .
Thank you Dave, as I said earlier it was ‘driver education’ that was part of the (non existant) problem as drivers of that time just were not used to driving like that! According to both Tommy Babb and my old gaffer Eric Gough they tended to overheat unless the revs were kept above the 2000 rpm mark, maybe the fan couldn’t draw enough air through the rad? I think that, like the Commer, it was noise restrictions that eventually killed them off. Love them or hate them both engines were brave attempts by their makers to give customers an option to the traditional ‘plodders’ that everyone ran.
Anyway are you keeping safe up in those hills? I phoned Denzil Goodwin at Chelmorton (he is in our vintage club) recently and he is keeping himself tucked safely indoors.
Pete.
And just as we had got used to revving the guts out of a TS3 (including the "de-coke!) we were treated to ■■■■■■■■ Big Cam engines, where the watchword was, “Let it lug”! By the way, I was amazed at the brilliant fuel consumption of the Commer with all that “foot-to-the-floor” driving.
ramone:
Carryfast:
A 5 litre engine struggles in anything heavier than a 4 wheeler who would have thought it.It’s a bit like Bedford expecting the 6v71 to work in a 32 tonner.It’s impossible to understand the thought process of the designers and managements in the day.
The F86 and F7s worked at 32 tons and they were only 6.7 litre
Around 7 litres turbocharged isn’t the same thing as 5-7 litre non turbo.Even then Volvo/DAF etc all saw the need to offer 2800 and F10/12 for 32t operations for customers who obviously preferred it and didn’t buy the small highly stressed motor idea.
I’d guess if Foden had gone for 8 litres and a turbo option we might have seen far greater acceptance of two stroke powered vehicles in the UK market.
Carryfast:
ramone:
Carryfast:
A 5 litre engine struggles in anything heavier than a 4 wheeler who would have thought it.It’s a bit like Bedford expecting the 6v71 to work in a 32 tonner.It’s impossible to understand the thought process of the designers and managements in the day.
The F86 and F7s worked at 32 tons and they were only 6.7 litre
Around 7 litres turbocharged isn’t the same thing as 5-7 litre non turbo.Even then Volvo/DAF etc all saw the need to offer 2800 and F10/12 for 32t operations for customers who obviously preferred it and didn’t buy the small highly stressed motor idea.
I’d guess if Foden had gone for 8 litres and a turbo option we might have seen far greater acceptance of two stroke powered vehicles in the UK market.
The Foden pulled like a train and went like ■■■■ off of a shovel when driven right anyway, lack of power was never a problem really and when it was marketed alongside the other options of Gardner LW’s and LX 150’s in Foden trucks it performed better than those. I doubt that many UK operators would have rushed to buy anything fitted with a turbo in the 50’s and 60’s? The TS3 was only just over 3 litres and that didn’t lack power either.
Why do I feel I have just wasted ten minutes of my life writing this though? 
Pete.
windrush:
Carryfast:
I’d guess if Foden had gone for 8 litres and a turbo option we might have seen far greater acceptance of two stroke powered vehicles in the UK market.
The Foden pulled like a train and went like [zb] off of a shovel when driven right anyway, lack of power was never a problem really and when it was marketed alongside the other options of Gardner LW’s and LX 150’s in Foden trucks it performed better than those. I doubt that many UK operators would have rushed to buy anything fitted with a turbo in the 50’s and 60’s? The TS3 was only just over 3 litres and that didn’t lack power either.
Why do I feel I have just wasted ten minutes of my life writing this though?
Pete.
To be fair I did say ‘option’ not take a turbo or leave it.Yes ‘driven right’ obviously means thrashed it to within an inch of its life to keep it moving.Not surprising with less than 5 litres under it.As I said just a few more litres would have removed all possible arguments and doubt in that regard.Bearing in mind that the dissent didn’t come from me.
discovery.nationalarchives.gov. … r/C2232472
There is plenty of FD12 stuff out there. Just Google it.
I just noticed the Youtube video is filed under the subheading, “Comedy”. Judging by the grin on the operator’s face, they got it right.
And now, the inevitable question: Did Fodens ever put an FD12 in a lorry chassis, and can anyone find a photograph of one, showing a cab rear view, with the engine in place? 
[zb]
anorak:
And now, the inevitable question: Did Fodens ever put an FD12 in a lorry chassis, and can anyone find a photograph of one, showing a cab rear view, with the engine in place?
Probably same question as did/why didn’t they put the Detroit 6046 twin 6 in the Diamond T and if so has anyone got any photos of it actually being fitted at the factory.Maybe couldn’t get it to fit in the chassis rails ( unfortunately ). 
[zb]
anorak:
Foden FD 12 engine: endurance test | The National Archives
There is plenty of FD12 stuff out there. Just Google it.
I just noticed the Youtube video is filed under the subheading, “Comedy”. Judging by the grin on the operator’s face, they got it right.
And now, the inevitable question: Did Fodens ever put an FD12 in a lorry chassis, and can anyone find a photograph of one, showing a cab rear view, with the engine in place?
FFS, don’t start him off again!
Retired Old ■■■■:
[zb]
anorak:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2232472
There is plenty of FD12 stuff out there. Just Google it.
I just noticed the Youtube video is filed under the subheading, “Comedy”. Judging by the grin on the operator’s face, they got it right.
And now, the inevitable question: Did Fodens ever put an FD12 in a lorry chassis, and can anyone find a photograph of one, showing a cab rear view, with the engine in place?
FFS, don’t start him off again!
I’ll have the pair of them singing in perfect disharmony by bedtime. 
[zb]
anorak:
Retired Old ■■■■:
[zb]
anorak:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2232472
There is plenty of FD12 stuff out there. Just Google it.
I just noticed the Youtube video is filed under the subheading, “Comedy”. Judging by the grin on the operator’s face, they got it right.
And now, the inevitable question: Did Fodens ever put an FD12 in a lorry chassis, and can anyone find a photograph of one, showing a cab rear view, with the engine in place?
FFS, don’t start him off again!
I’ll have the pair of them singing in perfect disharmony by bedtime.
I hope you don’t mean me you ■■■■■ !! 
The Mk7 seems to measure up quite well in 1965, although peak SFC of 0.38lb/hp/hr is worse than the Gardner 6LX (0.335, IIRC).
I assume the FD12 was a pair of FD6s on a common crankcase. I’ll have an FD12 Mk7 please. 450bhp and 1200lbft would embarrass even those green leakers from across the pond.
Does anyone recognize this engine as being the 2 stroke? NMP.
windrush:
rigsby:
The Foden 2stroke pulled as well as anything on the market at the time , no use waiting for the revs to die before a down change . Decent drivers learned to judge the change to get the next lower gear at peak revs . It wasn’t easy to adjust to as drivers at the time probably felt that they were thrashing at those revs , the same applied to the ts3 , I was often accused of that by the older drivers .
Thank you Dave, as I said earlier it was ‘driver education’ that was part of the (non existant) problem as drivers of that time just were not used to driving like that! According to both Tommy Babb and my old gaffer Eric Gough they tended to overheat unless the revs were kept above the 2000 rpm mark, maybe the fan couldn’t draw enough air through the rad? I think that, like the Commer, it was noise restrictions that eventually killed them off. Love them or hate them both engines were brave attempts by their makers to give customers an option to the traditional ‘plodders’ that everyone ran.
Anyway are you keeping safe up in those hills? I phoned Denzil Goodwin at Chelmorton (he is in our vintage club) recently and he is keeping himself tucked safely indoors.
Pete.
Keeping well up here so far thanks Pete. , staying banged up in Chez rigsby with the son on call for supplies when needed . I haven’t seen Denzil for ages , give him my best regards if you phone him again please .
[zb]
anorak:
I assume the FD12 was a pair of FD6s on a common crankcase. I’ll have an FD12 Mk7 please. 450bhp and 1200lbft would embarrass even those green leakers from across the pond.
The pic of a FD12 I posted on page one shows that the two engines used were mirror images of each other on a common crankcase Anorak. There was also a marine version using four engines, two pairs in line, but they were seperate and drove two props through seperate gearboxes I believe?
Here is part of an article I found but alas the pics are from Photobucket and not fully visible now.
faireyownersclub.co.uk/forum/to … IC_ID=3078
Interesting that the marine engines could be supplied with a stainless steel crankshaft, that is something I haven’t encountered before?
Pete.
You can see the 2 Stroke Engines here from the single cylinder trial model to the FD12 and an FD6 neatly stowed in the rear of the coach chassis. Franky.
Frankydobo:
You can see the 2 Stroke Engines here from the single cylinder trial model to the FD12 and an FD6 neatly stowed in the rear of the coach chassis. Franky.
3
2
1
0
Bet that cured the scramble for the back seat Franky !!
The actual FD12 is actually less powerful than the turbichargedb Mk7 FD6. Maybe the one in the video, which had a turbocharger on each bank, was a home-made one, cosisting of two later engines on a marine crankcase?
