I’m well aware about local enforcement gb1 in foreign countries, I’ve been unfortunate enough to come foul of there traditions a time or two.
What I’m saying is how are they going to know whether you’ve slept in the cab or under a hedge? & as long as your clearly showing 45hrs whence required why are they going to dig any deaper.
I feel it is pedantic as Harry has on many occasions slated the east europeans & there carrying on dossing in lay-bys etc, I’m not disagreeing that they’ve ruined a good job but getting picky now is a tad too late.
I have had to write to VOSA on a number of occasions but imo Harry would have been better asking a VOSA official when He gets a visit rather than Him getting it in black & white that He can’t take a full weekly rest in the cab. The not knowing & doing it beats the I’m resting now for 45 hours but I know I’m breaking the law, this is imo anyway.
Harry subs for Gregorys & I can’t really see this being an issue atm, I know He would love anglo-continental transport to return to its former glory but it won’t ever, I also know He hopes to be on promo work in the near future & as He knows only too well His welfare for His 45 hrs will be taken care of by the client if He’s working for the right people.
I Myself hope never to be in the above position again in europe, I’m lucky its in black & white for Me in my contract of employment as to which hotel/motel to go to when needing a reset out on the road.
In all My years of undertaking international journeys I’ve never been asked where I’ve slept for the weekend or where I’ve eaten, showered or toileted on a rest period as frankly who gives a ■■■■…
fly sheet:
What I’m saying is how are they going to know whether you’ve slept in the cab or under a hedge? & as long as your clearly showing 45hrs whence required why are they going to dig any deaper.
For the same reason that the Swiss will sometimes do you for using additional running-lights- It makes money.
The not knowing & doing it beats the I’m resting now for 45 hours but I know I’m breaking the law, this is imo anyway.
Ignorance is no defence
In all My years of undertaking international journeys I’ve never been asked where I’ve slept for the weekend or where I’ve eaten, showered or toileted on a rest period as frankly who gives a [zb]…
Unfortunately, as the rest of Europe etc, is suffering the same financial difficulties as us, we’re finding that some of the official employees of the more recent members to the EU are again initiating back-handers.
Clarification of the rules would at least give some confidence when stood at the side of the road negotiating!
gb1:
I’m with you Harry on this one.
By virtue of the 45hr rest omission, but inclusion of the 24hr rest in the official wording, it would lead you to think that it is
an offence to take a 45hr rest in the vehicle.
It’s certainly not being pedantic to ask the question. Those of us that spend most of our time out of the UK know how
local officials can interpret the regulations to suit.
So, do we assume it’s an oversight on the regulators behalf?
For some of us that regularly spend our 45’s away from base, it’s an important point.
I am with you and Harry for a different reason. It is how I learn things, like a wide eyed child in my Uncles workshop I would ask the same questions over and over and eventually gained enough knowledge to tackle engineering jobs on my own, first it was only a puncture on my trike, than by tightening some spokes I had learnt what the spoke key was used for.
Knowledge is power!!!
I didn’t get where I am today CJ without knowing where Harewood House is.
I honestly don’t see the point in slagging off Harry on this one, is it not better knowing where we stand, rather than the Bag or Gendarme fleecing you for vast amounts of euro’s, at least you would have a chance of arguing the point of law, if it was in black and white under an EU legislative piece of paper with a number attached.
I was on a 45hr in Dresden 2 years ago. I was talking to a BAG official at an MSA who pulled alongside and we started chatting. He came back almost at the end of my 45 and jokingly said “You still here?”
sapper:
I honestly don’t see the point in slagging off Harry on this one, is it not better knowing where we stand, rather than the Bag or Gendarme fleecing you for vast amounts of euro’s, at least you would have a chance of arguing the point of law, if it was in black and white under an EU legislative piece of paper with a number attached.
Sapper
I certainly am not slagging anybody off what I have posted as stated is in My humble opinion end of.
I asked a VOSA official this very question in Watford Gap yesterday, his answer was…
“Yes it is the law, but it is enforced at the discretion of the officer at the time as to whether you are nicked for it”
BuzzardBoy:
I asked a VOSA official this very question in Watford Gap yesterday, his answer was…
“Yes it is the law, but it is enforced at the discretion of the officer at the time as to whether you are nicked for it”
They cannot act as judge & jury whoever they think they are !
BuzzardBoy:
I asked a VOSA official this very question in Watford Gap yesterday, his answer was…
“Yes it is the law, but it is enforced at the discretion of the officer at the time as to whether you are nicked for it”
They cannot act as judge & jury whoever they think they are !
Oh yes they can, and will!
As said before, the wording of the regulations, states that a 24hr rest may be taken in the vehicle. It gives no indication that
a 45hr rest can be taken in the vehicle. Therefore it would be correct to assume that a 45hr rest in the vehicle is illegal.
Now, whilst some officers will turn a blind-eye to the matter, some officers will not. Realistically, we can’t argue with that. If some
drivers think they are immune from the law, just because they’ve got away with it for so long, i’m sorry, but I think you’ll find
that it’s a law that will be increasingly used against us, if only to make money for the authorities. There’s nothing to say you
can’t spend your 45hrs sleeping in a ditch - it’s just a matter of proving you wern’t sleeping in the vehicle.
Personally, I can’t see the problem with spending my 45hr in the truck - it’s undoubtedly better than being in a ditch - but the
law says that you can’t.
What we actually need, is for the regulation to be changed. FTA/RHA - where are you now?
I was weekended last weekend in Brietengusbach near Bamberg. I got to the Autohof on friday night, about 1 hour later the BAG came round just to see who was there, they did this again at the sam time Saturday night and the same time Sunday night…and it was the same guys in the van. On the Sunday they parked at the side of me, noticing I was the only British driver on the park they satrted chatting in their best English, just about where in the UK I was from, how far I travel and why I was in the area, just general chit chat, they didnt want to see my digi card, check the truck or anything. They knew I had been there since Friday so would have known I was having a 45 off and I was in the cab all weekend but they didnt seem to be bothered so I’m guessing they either didnt interprit the legislation in the way some people might or they didnt give a toss. I wasnt the only one there all weekend and staying in the cab, so they could have if they wished and the legislation allowed them to “had a field day” .
Having said all that I support Harry in writing the letter…it was done in his own time so why should anyone else on here be bothered especially if he gets a difinitive answer ■■?
Another way round this question, would be to have 44 hrs off as a reduced weekly rest, in the cab and add an extra hour to the daily rest period on, say, wed or thur, making up the shortfall, problem solved.
Paul:
I was weekended last weekend in Brietengusbach near Bamberg. I got to the Autohof on friday night, about 1 hour later the BAG came round just to see who was there, they did this again at the sam time Saturday night and the same time Sunday night…and it was the same guys in the van. On the Sunday they parked at the side of me, noticing I was the only British driver on the park they satrted chatting in their best English, just about where in the UK I was from, how far I travel and why I was in the area, just general chit chat, they didnt want to see my digi card, check the truck or anything. They knew I had been there since Friday so would have known I was having a 45 off and I was in the cab all weekend but they didnt seem to be bothered so I’m guessing they either didnt interprit the legislation in the way some people might or they didnt give a toss. I wasnt the only one there all weekend and staying in the cab, so they could have if they wished and the legislation allowed them to “had a field day” .
Having said all that I support Harry in writing the letter…it was done in his own time so why should anyone else on here be bothered especially if he gets a difinitive answer ■■?
I have previously mentioned this before that when I went to Brian Yeardleys for an interview I was told then about this toureg roaming thing.
I spent a long time arguing the finer points with Pat Spamer who I respect as an exceptional transport manager and operator. We agreed to disagree and it has taken several years for it to be mentioned again. Basically if I can find it written into a document I tend to argue that it is law, there is a lot of stuff that is done that should only be accepted as lore.
The BAG story above reminds me of the many many weekends I have spent in Germany and seen the drivers return to their vehicles to put in a new card at the weekend. Again the BAG may ride around, or the local police, but none of them waited until someone removed his card on 24 hours. The lore here said that you must replace your card every 24 hours, yet the law said you must not allow a recording to go over 24 hours. The law also said you needed a 45 hour break. By changing the cards, Fritz, Hans and Johan are breaking the law, they are interrupting a weekly rest period, but almost every German driver did this.
We on the other hand took our cards out when we parked up and put in another one before you drove on Monday, according to lore, we were wrong, according to law we were not doing anything wrong
sapper:
Another way round this question, would be to have 44 hrs off as a reduced weekly rest, in the cab and add an extra hour to the daily rest period on, say, wed or thur, making up the shortfall, problem solved.
Sapper
That would not constitute a full 45 hr break though !
sapper:
Another way round this question, would be to have 44 hrs off as a reduced weekly rest, in the cab and add an extra hour to the daily rest period on, say, wed or thur, making up the shortfall, problem solved.
Sapper
That would not constitute a full 45 hr break though !
Ditto - making up a reduced weekly rest does make a full weekly rest
sapper:
Another way round this question, would be to have 44 hrs off as a reduced weekly rest, in the cab and add an extra hour to the daily rest period on, say, wed or thur, making up the shortfall, problem solved.
Sapper
That would not constitute a full 45 hr break though !
Ditto - making up a reduced weekly rest does make a full weekly rest
sapper:
Another way round this question, would be to have 44 hrs off as a reduced weekly rest, in the cab and add an extra hour to the daily rest period on, say, wed or thur, making up the shortfall, problem solved.
Sapper
That would not constitute a full 45 hr break though !
Ditto - making up a reduced weekly rest does make a full weekly rest
Rog have you written that wrong ?
Nope
A full weekly rest is only when 45 unbroken hours have been taken off in one go
